My Landlord doesn't want smart electricity meters. Do they have a choice with this?

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785720#Comment_117785720

you can keep the old rate. what you are forgetting in your post is that between 23:00 and 08:00 its cheaper. this suits some people, especially people who use alotat night, e.g charging electric cars.

. Even old dumb meter had day and night rates if you wanted.

stop spreading nonsense, there is no reason to not get one. perhaps the landlord thinks its a prepay meter.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786640#Comment_117786640

prepay meters are different

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790458#Comment_117790458

Just to be clear. It's not exactly the same at all. You are adding a device after the meter to monitor usage and a panel inside the house. This is allowed without ESB input it's all post the regulated meter unit.

Entirely different.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786814#Comment_117786814

The cost is built in to the existing charges, there is no additional line item. The cost is being recouped by the entire network. So it makes no difference if you have one installed or not. NO ONE WITH A SMART METER WILL HAVE TO PAY ANY MORE THAN SOMEONE WITH OUT ONE.

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117791983#Comment_117791983

Agreed, as an already low level user without an electric car to charge, I can see very little saving opportunities in the current arrangements, unless I decide to risk a house fire by running my washer and drier through the night and get the family to use the electric shower after midnight.

At the moment, I can see no advantage to me in having a smart meter with the tariffs currently offered. The advantage now lies with the suppliers, being able to charge the consumer more for the energy used during the most convenient and necessary times. The refuse collection services went the same way ... introduced as additional competition being of benefit to the consumer and ending up with consumers paying more to dispose of less refuse.

I think there are many people already doing their best with energy conservation that are going to be very disappointed with the lack of practical savings options that the smart meter will provide for an already conservative user.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117786840#Comment_117786840

I assume this refers to the ESB Standing charge, which is on all bills, (irrespective if you have Smart Meter).

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792155#Comment_117792155

You mention the electric car.

My parents have one and charge it overnight. Its a 2kwh charger so it takes all night to charge. But it does it fully in the 9 hour night rate at 7c per unit.

Now they looked into smart meter., The period to charge is far less. Car wont charge in that time unless they upgrade to a €1000 charger.

And out of all the smart meter plans, I cant find one that would be cheaper for most users.

That is just going to get worse too, i suspect.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792233#Comment_117792233

They can stay on their current plan and get a smart meter.

the smart meter will remove estimated bills. And they’ll never have to worry about having a meter read.

they can see what the daily usage is , you’ll be surprised what savings can be made when you see the usage in a clear graph.

also What kind of car is it, only a 18KWh battery? Are they charging on a granny cable ?

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792018#Comment_117792018

Prepay meters clearly re different, no similarity between them and smart meters.

I was referring to the requirement for landlord approval to change the meter (in my own experience it was from Electric Ireland), a tenant wanted to change to a prepay meter but had to get my permission for EI to go ahead with it, as they said, No charge to change to prepay meter but a charge to go back.

On a seperate note, I hear electricity bills may go up 28?%, seems to negate any benefit to the end user of smart meters if it is all wiped out by price increases, although I did hear a radio advert today saying free saturday or sunday (you just have to pick a day) for those that change over to smart meters, can imagine that wont last long, but they must have excess capacity to use on those days if it is costing them as much to supply the grid and have no usage that they can give it away for free.

I suggest the OP enquire off the service provider, if they require landlord approval, they will say, as the property owner at the time, EI had to get my permission to make a change to the meter.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793360#Comment_117793360

No, your bill will not go up 28%, you can keep on the exact same tariff.

the free weekend will stay, its a tariff based on Time of use. so yo choose to pay extra during the week. this will suit people who use a lot at weekends, charging cars, using welders, heavy power tools etc

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793368#Comment_117793368

Read the post first please, I said electricity may go up 28%, ie across the board,

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792590#Comment_117792590

I don't know about other providers, but with Energia the only way to get any information on your current usage pattern is to switch to a "smart" tariff. You can't get any information at all if you're on a flat-rate tariff to give you an idea of what difference it would make, and worse still, once you go on to a smart tariff you then can't go back to a flat-rate one.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793382#Comment_117793382

they may go up 60000%.......

whomitconcerns

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793426#Comment_117793426

Very true, they should also watch a program called Revolution…all the electricity in the world disappears…that could happen also👍

Gareth Keenan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792155#Comment_117792155

I'm intrigued by the line that running the washer and drier through the night might risk a fire.

Is it more of a risk to do this through the night than through the day?

Only asking because I run both of mine overnight using the simple delay timers on both. House hasn't burned down (yet).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117791983#Comment_117791983

They're already like that, though. And deliberately so.

If you switch providers, the bills don't even look the same and they do this to make it harder for you to figure out which is cheaper. It's actually a pretty disgusting process, to be honest. Anyone who reports their work usage to the SEAI and has switched providers in recent years will have direct experience of this.

Mobile phone plans, on the other hand, are as straightforward as you can get. X number of minutes + Y number of texts + Z GB of data = €price per month.

Alun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793478#Comment_117793478

Obviously the chances of it happening at night are exactly the same as during the day, but the difference is that if you're awake you'll probably be able to detect any problems early before it gets too serious, or at least be able to get out of the house quickly. When you're fast asleep, things can, and sadly do, get out of control before you manage to get out.

dennyk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793478#Comment_117793478

The risk of a fire happening in general isn't higher, but the risk of a fire happening and no one noticing the danger in time to escape the house because everyone is asleep is much higher at night.

Gareth Keenan

Glad we've cleared all that up, I'll run the tumble dryer when I'm out at work.

3d4life

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793478#Comment_117793478

DFB deserve credit for managing to make their Twitter both interesting and educational

Its at https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/

From time to time you will see reports of fires that they think were started by running appliances at night

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793478#Comment_117793478

There was bit of a brouhaha within the last few years over house fires that were started by Samsung washing machines - https://www.9news.com.au/national/samsung-washing-machine-urgent-recall-fire-fears/ff75c959-6788-4d12-9995-b0e79e90ac42

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117792590#Comment_117792590

Yeah they charge with a granny cable in the socket in the garage.

Even though my Dad was an electrician before he retired so could do the labour part of an install for a better charger himself, he says he is retired now and doesnt want to be running cables when he doesnt have to :) But it would still cost a fair bit just to buy it, never mind install it.

What smart meter plan could we get to match the current plan.

Ive looked and no smart meter plan comes anywhere near.

Also not all night rate electricity there is the car.

example of last bill

Standing Charge 55 days at €0.59 per day €32.45

Standing Charge 5 days at €0.62 per day €3.10

Day 657 Units at €0.2322 per Unit €152.56

Night 760 Units at €0.1114 per Unit €84.66

Your discount for this period €97.27CR

Public Service Obligation Levy- 60 days at

€0.2143562 per day

€12.86

Sub Total before VAT €188.36

VAT on €188.36 at 13.5% €25.42

Total transactions for this period €213.78

Ger Roe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793478#Comment_117793478

Yes, it is more of a risk at night because the operation will likely be undertaken unsupervised and while people are asleep. Those devices should not be operated unsupervised. The risk of fire, or flood, is always there, the risk of increased damage or to health and safety is greater when used unsupervised ... particularly at night.

See here for recent example from former Olympic boxer, Adam Nolan ... in this case he was in another room at the time.

https://www.rte.ie/news/claire-byrne-live/2021/0505/1213949-olympic-boxer-adam-nolan-on-fire-scare-at-his-home/

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117795829#Comment_117795829

electric ireland, Electric night boost.

day .2322 Vs .2143

night .1114 Vs .1103

night .1114 Vs .0563 between 02:00 and 04:00

standing charge = same

+ €210 switching bonus. there's also a discount of 5.5% applied to the tariffs which I left of as its not clear what discount you are getting.

as you are charging at night that period between 2 and 4 will be quite effective

Switch electricity price plans today | Electric Ireland

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117796339#Comment_117796339

That looked quite good until you dig a bit deeper.

See this is what i mean about it being confusing.

That rate you have shown is actually far more expensive.

The unit rate is actually .2322 minus 41%

and .1114 minus 41%

So thats about 14c and 6.5c

Thats where the €97 discount for that bill came from.

a 5.5% discount would be €25 discount per bill.

So on the smart meter for 2 hours you are paying about 1c per unit less.

For the rest of the night you are paying over 4c per unit more.

And for the daytime you are paying about 50% more per unit.

plus vat of course.

I wonder though if you change to a smart meter because of a good deal, can you change back if the deals become not so good.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117793478#Comment_117793478

Main thing with appliances at night is to have a smoke detector over them and ensure they’re good quality, well maintained and properly connected.

Many modern, energy efficient tumble dryers don’t even have heating elements - they use a heat pump, which has more in common with a fridge - they’re air conditioner / dehumidifier.

We got a heat pump dryer and use it off peak and our electricity bill plummeted!

The dishwasher also gets its built in delay timer set to either start at night rate time or start early in the morning, timed to be ready for breakfast.

From a landlord point of view, a smart meter for both electricity and gas makes zero difference to the installation, gives the tenant a choice of all tariffs (smart or classic) and the huge advantage is it’s self-reading. They contain an eSIM card and basically send the meter reading back to ESB Networks or Gas Networks Ireland multiple times per day. That’s a huge advantage as you won’t be left with complexities of the aftermath of estimated bills and all that messing when people move out. The meter reading with the power company is just accurate all the time.

ted1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117797567#Comment_117797567

What’s the 41% discount for? Is there a time limit of 12 month?

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117798819#Comment_117798819

Yes its 12 months.

Its called Energia’s best value Electricity bundle with €35 Cashback

Then when you ring them and tell them you are moving they let you keep it for another 12 months.

They used to never give you the discount for the second year but they have changed that policy now because people moved if they didnt get it.

People arent lazy about switching provider anymore.

We've had it for 2 years now.

I thought this smart meter thing was going to be great, but I really think its just making prices more expensive so far anyway.

And unless you can change back to normal night rate after switching to a smart meter, any good offers in future will probably just be to get you trapped on the smart tariffs.

kennethsmyth

None of the smart meter rates are better than the best simple day/night rate. It’s disgusting that they are allowed advertise the way they do as if smart meter rates are the best. Regulator should step in and also make all billing a standard format etc.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117809351#Comment_117809351

Its amazing how many people have fallen for it too.

Thats how obscure smart meter billing is.

Designed to hide the true cost.