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My Landlord doesn't want smart electricity meters. Do they have a choice with this?

  • 21-08-2021 4:12pm
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭ DeeAvery

    I was contacted by a contacted company on behalf of the ESB that they are replacing my electricity meter with a smart one in a few days. I was under the assumption, based on nothing really, that over time all electricity meters will be replaced with smart ones and that we don't have a choice. However, my landlord now doesn't want it done. I'm not really pushed either way, though I would be fine with a smart meter and their potential advantages, but I don't care enough to really fight for one. I was just wondering does the landlord actually have a choice with this? Thanks.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 61,767 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011

    They are not compulsory (yet, or likely to be for some time - but its quite plausible that the only tarrifs offered to conventional meters in time will be exceptionally expensive) - contact ESB Networks and you can decline it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 708 ✭✭✭ 3d4life

    OP, See electrical forum for discussion on smart meters sometimes failing to perform

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,383 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1

    There is the choice but it makes no sense to decline the offer, its completely free, no mess, no fuss and in time, gives the bill paper more options. As others may say or agree with, they will I suspect become compulsory and I've no doubt the cost could be substantial. I believe (open to correction) all new builds have to have them installed. My own house is 250 years old, I was glad to see the back of the relic I had, the fitter laughed when he saw it, mentioned a possible museum piece 😁

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.

  • Registered Users Posts: 30,666 ✭✭✭✭ listermint

    It's an odd one tbh. Because if the ESB is entirely your name then the landlord kind of isn't really the contact at all. But then they own the building. But again they are not the contact on the account. So ... How does one navigate that is the question

  • Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ MBE220d

    Are you sure they are completely free, I thought you had to pay something like €5 a month for them on your ESB bill?

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    the landlord doesn’t own the meter. It’s property of ESB Networks. I wouldn’t really see how it’s of any relevance to them.

    If the electricity account and ESB Networks meter is in your name, what type of meter it is is really not any more relevance to the landlord than the brand of your WiFi router.

    Normally the meter goes into an ESB cabinet and it’s removable / replaceable at the behest of ESB.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,383 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1

    Absolutely free, no charge whatsoever and certainly no monthly rental added to bill. There will of course be smart tariffs available to you in time but a separate issue and for account holders to decide, I've stayed on old tariff, I'm a low user so no benifit at present to change.

    My own was one of the installed almost 2 years ago now.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,014 ✭✭✭ Gadgetman496

    The replacement of over 2 million electricity meters with the next generation electricity meter over a six-year period will cost some €1.2bn. Like other infrastructure upgrades, the cost of the meter upgrade will be recouped over time in charges paid for use of the electricity network which means there is no upfront charge to have a Smart Meter installed. The Commission for Regulation of Utilities has done extensive analysis of the plan and is satisfied that the investment involved represents value for money.

    Source: Electric Ireland.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,381 ✭✭✭✭ cnocbui

    I find the smart meter thing deceptive. The rate with a dumb meter is 15.29c, but with a smart meter it might be 22.98c for the 'day' rate - 50% more expensive - and 'day' is an astonishing 08:00 - 23:00!

    I think it should be up to the landlord, its her/his property and it's not something they can undo.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,383 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1

    My guess is as its a physical electrical installation the landlord would be required to be involved, whilst the account in tenants name, landlord would retain a vested interest as such.

    But as I've explained, there's really no sense to an objection, perhaps they think there's a charge when there is not.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,383 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1

    Fair points but there's a number of smart tariffs that have specific rates, day, night, free weekend day, booster etc. I'm not a heavy user so nothing would appeal to me but customers have a choice to remain on old tariffs also.

    I also agree re the landlord and of course its their ultimate decision, I'm just pointing out its absolutely Free (for now), minimal disruption, quite tidy, but also because they give Tenants, in time, greater choice, if of course they want it.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,383 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1

    Yep that's it and in essence if a customer gets one or not, over time every one will pay but crucially nothing upfront and I suspect there will come a time we're customers who've not had one installed within a prescribed roll out, they could potentially be charged for installation, albeit, that's quite some time away

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Not if it’s in the ESB cabinet. They’re entitled to install/remove a meter at will. It’s in the T&Cs.

    They can also call around and pull the fuse.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,383 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1

    That's perhaps true but a little dramatic and a condition reserved in cases of absolute emergencies, hardly appropriate in this situation.

    This Roll out is about upgrading the systems throughout the entire country for I presume the long term benifit of everyone. I've no personal objection and respect everyone decision to install or not. Theres no hooded ESB technician special operations team being sent out to rip out old meters, infact installation are being done by a contracted company under total supervision of ESB Networks.

    There's absolutely NO suggestion or even hint, amyone is being forced into a decision and as I've stated there is currently a choice.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,383 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1

    Honestly I'm no property law expert but I'd lean more on the side that any physical installation or indeed removal would require the properties owners consent. Let's also not forget the Meter is not the account holders property, their only obligation is to pay the bill. Also worth pointing out the actual account may not even be with the ESB, this is ultimately down to the physical installation and removal of fitted equipment that is owned, always by ESB networks. Also worth pointing out only authorised ESB technicians can connect or disconnect a meter.

    The consent aspect has also partly a common courteousy element to it.

    The conspiracy theories I'll leave to other threads but my god, there are some wild ones out there, I'm happy however, to confirm my Cat hasn't grown horns, since mine was installed two years ago 🙄

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    No electricity account is with the ESB anymore. The ESB was technically split up into business units.

    ESB Networks owns and operates the distribution networks and metering.

    Electric Ireland is their retail operation, a separate entity and is equivalent to any of the other providers.

    It doesn’t matter who your account is with: Electric Ireland, BGE, Energia, Iberdrola, SSE Airtricity, FloGas etc etc … your bill will come from one of those, but your connection and meter are provided by ESB Networks.

    Your standing charge and a % of the bill goes to fund them.

    If you’ve a line fault or a query about the network or meter, you call ESB Networks, not the company selling you power.

    ESB Networks own everything up to the meter (or isolator, if fitted).

    Only their technicians (or their authorised contractors) can do any work on any of that equipment.

    You aren’t even allowed to install any of your own equipment in the meter cabinet, as you agree to provide it to ESB Networks to their spec and for exclusive use.

    The Gas Networks Ireland setup is the same structure. They own your gas meter and operate the distribution system & metering, but so not sell gas.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭ 1874

    You certainly had to get the landlords permission to change the meter in the past, I had this enquiry made to me when I was a landlord by electric OR networks Ireland when a tenant I had wanted to change to a prepay meter (on the behest of Electric Ireland) as the bill wasnt being paid. My understanding was, Id have to consent for some reason or other, but also because the meter was free to install, but not free to change back.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ Darc19

    Some first generation smart meters had issues with dimmable led bulbs when dimmable led bulbs were in their infancy.

    Bulbs have moved on and only second generation smart meters are used in Ireland.

    Yet the "object to everything" fools will keep harping on one small issue where both parts of that issue have been long resolved.

    And some eejits will still believe them.

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    Zero technical issues with the smart meters being installed by ESB Networks. They’re probably one of the best pieces of kit available, made by a Danish company called Kamstrump in a consortium with Siemens.

    If there’s one thing about the ESB it’s that they’re extremely conservative about selecting equipment suppliers.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ Darc19

    You can choose from ALL rate options.

    Btw a 15.29 rate is most likely part of a introductory rate. Current standard rates are circa 23c.

    Again, someone using selective information out of context. Hopefully people are more intelligent than to just take some out of context post and will do their own actual check

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭ beachhead

    Yes,there is a charge of e5.50 per bill for several years chargeable to all ESB personal customers to pay for the installation.The ESB state this in the blurb around the new meters.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,114 ✭✭✭ whomitconcerns

    This is nonsense..., there is no charge. Or are you being all obtuse and saying that there is an extra penny a minute being charged etc etc

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ Darc19

    More utter stupidity

    Next you'll hear the same fools tell you that smart meters will give you covid.

    It really is at that level of stupidity and some people are ridiculously gullible.

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,383 ✭✭✭✭ Dempo1

    Perhaps "Not So Smart" meters could be considered for some 😊

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.

  • Registered Users Posts: 30,666 ✭✭✭✭ listermint

    Completely different scenario..prepay meter is inside the house external to the meter box. E.g on the hall or kitchen .

    Not a like for like comparison to this thread.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭ 1874

    Nope, its exactly the same, that was not that prepay power crowd, it was networks that changed what was in the electric meter box they changed the meter and added a device connected to it to input a code when you bought a top up and electric Ireland were the supplier anyway, They required permission to do that, because they told me I needed to grant it, this was not like someone changing their account supplier.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik

    Anybody get confused when loking at mobile phone plans or health insurance plans the lat few years.

    Thats what smart meters will do for electricity plans.

    I would hazard a guess from looking at the plans available even at the moment for smart meters, that the consumer will not be winning here.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,418 ✭✭✭ Charles Babbage

    Changing your meter does not change your tariff. The tariff you choose is your choice. The smart meter gives you access to a whole range of new tariffs, but does not oblige you to use any of them. You may not be able to change the meter back, but you can always change your tariff and the flat rate will remain available as long as people have old meters, they may become less competitive though.