Ban the Poppy

Ramasun

We're getting near that time of year, where our political correctness leaps into accepting the poppy.

It's a symbol which has lost any neutral stance since the blanket amnesty for crimes by British soldiers in Northern Ireland.

I now see it as a provocative and divisive icon for English nationalists.

I don't think it should be allowed in Ireland.

Am I being too sensitive about it?

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205125/ban-the-poppy

couldn't give a fiddlers

mikhail

I have never seen a poppy in this country.

Allinall

Yes.

if you see it as provocative and divisive, you need to look inwards.

people don’t wear the poppy with you in mind.

BrookieD

no thanks - its ok

Tom Mann Centuria

Easter Eggs going on sale in January, Christmas decorations in October, people starting poppy threads in August.

Jequ0n

I had expected this to be about drugs. Phew

Ash.J.Williams

i've never seen one or felt compelled to wear or not wear, all i know is they make deeeeeeeelicious heroin

AlfaZen

Go to the fields of Normandy and south Belgium. Visit the cemeteries, read the names of the fallen. Notice the many Irish names. They are the names of our great grandfathers and great uncles. They are men who left young families behind with the hope of making a better life for them. They ended up making the ultimate sacrifice.

So maybe get over yourself and leave people commemorate their family member the way they wish to.

Ramasun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784578#Comment_117784578

Why do they wear it if not for others to see?

Overheal

Why has it been years since I had a poppy seed muffin. They’re delicious

FrancieBrady

No problem with anyone celebrating their dead or commemorating those who they see as achieving for them.

As long as they don't do it to taunt wear what ever you want.

Strumms

the country is a democratic republic. So no, banning something on the basis of you not liking it, being offended by it... isn’t democratic behavior... and not in keeping with the constitution or values of our democracy, a person should have the ability to do as they wish within the law.

banie01

Banning the poppy makes a mockery of any efforts towards assuring the Unionist community and even those who served in the UK forces from down south that we are paying anything other than lipservice to the GFA.

Parity of esteem, we don't have to like the poppy, we don't have to wear it and to be honest we don't have to pay it any heed.

What we do need to do, IMO at least is work on finding a way for both sides to commemorate without confrontation or diminishment of the other. Marching season for example. What's important? Having a march with your fellow Orangemen and marching in front of your community? Or behaving like bigots and taking your march down traditional Nationalist areas to antagonise? And vice versa.

Fionn1952

Couldn't care less about someone choosing to wear a poppy, I don't even care if they wear a poppy to taunt (which I'd say is incredibly uncommon, even in the North where that sort of taunting is more common). I'm not a big fan of enforced poppy wearing, and absolutely condemn those receiving abuse for choosing not to wear a poppy.

As with every year, much ado about nothing.

blackbox

In the interest of being non provocative, would the OP also like to ban the Easter lily?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205125/ban-the-poppy

Yes you are.

Elmer Blooker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784626#Comment_117784626

Its been a very long time since the poppy commemoration was about the places you've mentioned.

In recent years it has been all about 'our boys' in Afghanistan showing the flag. I expect the poppy commemoration to be very muted this year.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205125/ban-the-poppy

My father served in WW2 and helped ensure that you don't currently speak German. A great unkle died at the ripe old age of 19 in WW1, and is burried on Lemnos in Greece. Incidents in Northern Ireland just don't matter in the scheme of things, as I see them - not even seedlings, let alone small potatoes.

AlfaZen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784797#Comment_117784797

Go there and see for yourself. Your opinion might change.

People should be allowed to wear a poppy if they wish. They should not have to give it up. However people should not be under pressure to wear one if they don’t wish to. Come November any footballer or person on tv will be called out if they don’t wear one. I believe this is totally wrong too.

Burt Renaults

I don't have any time for it, and I've nothing but disrespect for anyone who chooses to wear one. And even less respect for any Irish person who wears one because they were told to by the BBC. But no, anyone who wants to wear one - especially in Ireland - should be encouraged to do so. It's a good way of spotting a dickhead before they open their mouth.

indioblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058205125/ban-the-poppy

What do you want to discuss? Political correctness in Ireland, Northern Ireland, English nationalism - or your concern about being overly sensitive?

AlfaZen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784983#Comment_117784983

You’re a very sad man Burt if you use the wearing of a poppy as a means to judge someone’s character. Says more about you than them to be honest.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785051#Comment_117785051

I'm very happy, actually. Wearing a poppy in this country is a very deliberate political statement, whether you like it or not.

dudley72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785092#Comment_117785092

You will find the person wearing it wants nothing to do with a political statement

The person shouting about it wants to make it a political statement.

Overheal

Relevant read. Even if you already knew, it's a good refresher.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/4av8pg/afghanistans-opium-business-boomed-under-us-occupation

And I just couldn't not think about this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxI9yy8Fn2A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFqOSa7u0dA

Hate the war, not the soldier. The British state exploits its poor, people fresh out of orphanages with few options in life, people with low intelligence (I don't mean this in a bad way, not this time anyway), to put their armies together. Sure, a few aristocratic types like to get involved, but in general most of the British Armed forces are to be pitied rather than hated.

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-23346693

Also, to paraphrase Tony Benn, Don't the British mourn their dead too? Of course they do. Let them mourn.

Most of the people that wear poppies aren't celebrating the British State, they are remembering family members.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_lMKegVKyI

And finally, read the accounts of young British soldiers sent to Ireland during 1916. Some of them thought they were headed to France. These people were treated like cannon fodder (even if they were better off in Dublin).

Until you have to choose between survival and putting a uniform on to fight for some militaristic gimp of a politician that promises a pay check when few others will, I think it's a harsh judgment to condemn them all.

Furze99

Re OP - yes, you're being too sensitive. If it doesn't relate to you, then ignore it, none of your business.

firemansam4

The thing is in Ireland we have a good understanding of how the british military has carried out many brutal atrocities on this Island. To wear a poppy is to commemorate members of all the armed forces of the UK, which includes any members involved in said atrocities.

I would certainly understand why any Irish person would refuse to wear a poppy.

On the other hand in England, the population don't really seem to know, or don't really want to know about the ill deeds of their milatary forces. The British public look up to their milatary as heroes, especially when thinking about events such as WW2.

So when it comes to anyone refusing to wear a poppy they just look at it as the ultimate insult to the heroes who lost their lives fighting for freedom during WW2. They dont really get or understand what brutal atrocities the British armed forces have carried out against the people of Ireland.

I wont judge anyone for wearing a poppy, as im sure they have their own reasons, just as no one should judge anyone for not wanting to wear a poppy.

The British public look up to their milatary as heroes

The British public pay lip service to the military and military vets in particular, IMO. A lot of the British public look down on military types; it's snob thing.

A lot of the poppy wearing and speaking well of the military in Britain is Pavlov Dog-level behaviour, achieved through years of training via media consumption, a bit like the breathless, equally Pavlovian, American 'Thank you for your service.' (A tiny fraction of U.S. service members ever see combat. It would be more accurate in most cases to say something more like: 'Thank you for flying to Iraq, where you spent most of your awake time peeling spuds and playing pool.' :D ) If the British public love their military so much, why are so many vets homeless or living in dire circumstances?

Agree with your post though, esp. the last line.

wotzgoingon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784592#Comment_117784592

So did I especially since I read last night the Taliban are supposedly banning the cultivation of the poppy plant in Afghanistan.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784626#Comment_117784626

Agreed

Personally I wish they would do so in a way that didn't provide direct funding for the British legion but if that's their informed choice as Irish people then so be it.

myfreespirit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117784839#Comment_117784839

Precisely why is it important or relevant that we in Ireland don't speak German?

Serious question.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785109#Comment_117785109

Anyone who goes around wearing one in Ireland wants nothing more than to make a political statement.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785245#Comment_117785245

Posts like yours are a good way of spotting people who won't be allowed post here for very long.

olestoepoke

Who cares? Let people wear whatever they want. Also, in all my years I've never saw anyone in Ireland wear one anyway so whats the point in banning it?

AlfaZen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785413#Comment_117785413

You’re making generalisations and assumptions on why people wear them and then calling them derogatory names for doing so. Thus acting like the derogatory term you used. Why does it bother you so much?

tdf7187

No, the poppy should not be banned. Neither should the wearing of the Easter lily, the playing of 'Come out Ye Black and Tans', 'God Save the Queen', 'The Sash my Father Wore', 'Come out Ye Black and Tans', etc, etc.

It's called freedom of speech. Welcome to the clash of ideas! Don't like it, maybe there's some places out in the middle of Asia that might suit you better.

Burt Renaults

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785475#Comment_117785475

Like I said, people should be allowed wear whatever they like. And the rest of us can judge them for it. This is a real 'Only On Boards' thing - people advocating for the wearing of a British military symbol in a country where the British military committed so many acts of brutality.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785401#Comment_117785401

I imagine 12 months in a Polish concentration camp would sort out your comprehension problem, possibly even a good few months before you died, even, though there's no knowing with some people.

Allinall

Why are you presuming to speak for others?

Black Swan

Poppy is the California state flower. It grows everywhere. But I have not seen one worn in Cal. It would be meaningless. Then again, it is different in Eire.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785506#Comment_117785506

With many Irish among them. Collaborators. And many Irish helped build the British Empire. These things are never black and white.

Ireland's collaborating type, those that love to cozy up to imperialistic power, have moved on though, and you should too; it's all about the New West Brits these days. This type is found all over Ireland; Britain, no longer Master of The World, bores them now and being a West Brit doesn't create as much er... frisson as it once did, so they have moved onto U.S. politics, but they are exactly the same grubby, power-loving type.

myfreespirit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785532#Comment_117785532

You mentioned that a family member fought in World War 1 on the British side presumably to protect us Irish from "speaking German by now".

This self same British side that is guilty of genocide in 19th century Ireland and is also the reason that we were coerced into speaking a foreign language.

How is this different from what you claim would have happened if the German side had triumphed in 1914-1918?

Again, this is a serious question.

I find this obsession with symbolism in Britain in recent years is becoming a bit tiresome.

I don’t think the poppy is or should be a controversial symbol in Ireland, if it’s just honouring those who were killed in wars, but that isn’t what the symbol is. It is politically loaded and everyone knows that. They just go hysterical when it’s pointed out to them.

I’d much rather we had symbol that wasn’t attached to the British army itself. If we are commemorating war dead, we should do it our own way.

I think though in England it’s gradually morphing into something more like the kind of crazy you see around symbols in Northern Ireland in recent years, as the wearing of the poppy seems to have become almost compulsory, certainly for media and public facing figures and it’s being enforced by thuggish nonsense online and offline. It’s the same path as MAGA and American flag obsession in the USA.

There was a long period of time when the British had much more cop on, and saw symbols for what they were: just symbols, but that time appears to be fading fast and Brexit unleashed a new era of jingoistic nonsense.

I just get fed up with this false dichotomy that by not wearing a poppy, or by being offended by what is a very loaded symbol that it’s somehow offensive or disrespectful. It’s not. The symbol means many things beyond a simple, neutral remembrance.

I don’t think it should be banned. I just don’t think it should be reacted to either.

Ireland has war dead, whether they died for British forces or not, they’re Irish and I think we should acknowledge them in our own way, without the baggage of the flag they fought under. Those that say you can’t separate the two are, in my opinion, just trying to create an argument that really doesn’t really need to exist. We have a history as a colony and as having been part of the U.K. for a time, it doesn’t mean it was by choice nor does it mean that it’s something we have to honour, but we can acknowledge that it’s part of history.

History and politics are complex. You can’t sum it up in a single symbol. Likewise the British army is complex. It’s done positive things and it’s done very negative things and it’s completely possible for people to have different and nuanced opinions about it.

I also don’t like this narrative of “the Great War”. No war was great. They were all abysmal periods of human savagery. The causes of them and the reasons they were fought, particularly WWII may have been noble and necessary, but glorifying war in my view is a bit twisted. They need to be a learned from and their horrors understood, not turned into points of national reverence.

This endless desire to put people into one of two camps is just oversimplification and insulting to intelligence.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785506#Comment_117785506

Who's advocating for it though?

myfreespirit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785577#Comment_117785577

+1 to this ^

Agree fully that it is right to commemorate those who have died in war, as so many Irishmen did in WW1 and WW2.

The Irish National War Memorial Gardens in Dublin is a fitting memorial to the dead.

Gatling

Op is there anything you can do about the weather ???

Anyway, there are much more productive and effective ways to do your bit for Ireland, such as going on the BBC Sport website and giving Jack Grealish a low score on the player rating thingy, no matter how well he played. 😯😄

Gatling

Still think the best WW1 memorial here was built in Kilkenny not far from the castle

indioblack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117785577#Comment_117785577

The "great" in The Great War refers to size - huge, gigantic.

super_furry

I honestly can't keep up.

Is it 'politically correct' to wear a poppy or 'politically correct' to bitch and moan about it?