Landlords selling up - Rents rising

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787886#Comment_117787886

You really cant see the difference.

its not difficult.

if 50 people apply for a rental you can only give it to one of them. Thats your right as a landlord and its a powerfull right that you can pick the one you want.

Somehow you think the other 49 can sue you through the WRC because your posting articles of tenancy agreements being breached or landlords openly admitting to discriminating.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788311#Comment_117788311

A landlord can choose who they want, they just can’t make that decision based on the discriminatory grounds you listed, gender/pregnancy/eligibility for state aid. Even after all the links I posted, including the direct quote from the WRC, you are still unable to understand that.

I suspect most of the cases listed in a google search have landlords as ignorant of discrimination legislation, and the scope of the WRC as you are.

Earlier you posted that making a decision to rent based on nationality was “foolish and ignorant”, yet you seem to have no comprehension that making one on gender/pregnancy/state aid is equally enlightened. Go figure.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787851#Comment_117787851

When I was young it was a small grey-haired woman with glasses that sat at the top of the class.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117787772#Comment_117787772

It wasn't standard practice until a few years ago, a landlord decided what he could charge up until them.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788635#Comment_117788635

Rents didn't need any controls at that time. That is the reason there was no intervention at that time. Not for any idealistic reason.

It's a sticking plaster that is needed due to other failures but it is needed nonetheless. Someone not realising it could happen, or anticipating that it would, is not a reason that it should not happen.

The government have been propping up the housing and rental markets for years. Subsidising landlords. Landlords can't then complain when those policies lead to an overheating which necessitates caps.

If you want pure free floating capitalism then so be it. Stop all housing assistance and rent supplements tomorrow and let the market find its own level.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789185#Comment_117789185

Why can't landlords complain, they didn't create the problem in the first place yet they are blamed for it.

It's not private landlords job to provide social housing if the government build them they wouldn't be in the mess they are in now.

As for housing assistance and rent supplement, them days are over as far as I'm concerned.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789459#Comment_117789459

Landlords are being subsidized by the state. Planning rules and regulations also prevent competition to your benefit. When you have those kinds of restrictions that benefit you, you can't realistically turn around and complain when they try to limit the effects of that market distortion. I mean you can of course moan about them all you want, but don't expect to be taken seriously.

As for housing assistance and rent supplement - do away with those and you suddenly remove 800m from the market. And create a lot of landlords with tenants who can no longer pay current market rents. You can either accept lower rent from them or turf them out and compete for new tenants with all the other landlords who are evicting at that time.

Be careful what you wish for. Wish for a pure capitalistic system if you so desire. I'd be happy to purchase some of your properties from you when they crash in value if that actually did happen. Change the system so that a landlord can definitely evict within a reasonable timeframe and also remove all state subsidies and payments towards private housing. I mean there would be chaos but sure if that is what you want.

MBE220d

You keep bringing up planning and regulations, what has that got to do with someone setting their own rent.

Let the government build social and affordable housing and the private rental market will find its own level. simple really.

By all means, clamp down on housing assistance, it should be a temporary assistant in the first place, not a lifestyle choice.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789524#Comment_117789524

Not directly involved but how are landlords being subsidised? I thought it was the tenant who is receiving the subsidy..I dont understand how paying for a service is considered a subsidy to the supplier. If an employee receives a subsidy from their employer for anything, revenue tax the worker for BIK, they dont tax the supplier..IDK why Government stopped building social housing but I've read on boards many times that it's cheaper & less hassle for councils to pay for rentals instead of building. They save on capital expenditure & maintenance & have no massive rent arrears as that falls onto private landlords. If councils built themselves, they wouldnt have to pay someone else to provide accomodation.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789652#Comment_117789652

Planning and regulations reduce and control supply. If there were no regulations then you can be guaranteed that houses would be cheaper and so would rents. Let anyone with a back garden put up a shed/cabin to rent out to a student/worker for 50 quid a week per bed and see how that might impact what people are willing to pay to rent your regular property. Let any developer who owns any space put up whatever type of building they like on it and house prices would drop.

Now, having zero regulations would also introduce other problems, which is why they rightfully exist. But that is irrelevant to the point that their existence increases the wealth of the property owners.

It is not reasonable for you to moan about certain regulations (i.e. rent caps) without recognizing the ones that help your position.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789963#Comment_117789963

Are you sure you are posting in the right thread, I'll say once more, rent limits have nothing to do with planning, rent has got out of control because of government meddling in it. No forward-thinking with any of them, just populist vote grabbing measures to please their voters.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789963#Comment_117789963

landlords dont make the planning rules though..if property values increase due to market forces it is beneficial to owner occupiers also & not only landlords.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117789734#Comment_117789734

Spot on there regards rent arrears,

There was a rental scheme called RAS set up about 12/13 years ago where the council would rent a property of a private landlord on a 4 or 5 year lease at a reduced rent of about 20% of the local rate, with that scheme the landlord was guaranteed his rent for that lease regard of what happens, A good scheme for both landlord and tenant, everyone happy.

Roll on a few years later the council owed millions by tenants, the government of the day come up with a new scheme to much fanfare called HAP. Now with the HAP scheme, some bright spark came up with the idea, well if the tenant doesn't pay the council their share, we will stop paying the landlord, you couldn't make it up. Let the landlord take the hit.

And then you have people wondering why HAP tenants are finding it hard to get a place.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117788560#Comment_117788560

Naw your wrong.

but thats no surprise, youve dedicated an entire day to being wrong.

landlords can base their decision on whatever they like.

They just cant admit it if it is one of the factors that are outlawed under discrimination legislation.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790137#Comment_117790137

And yet you said the poster who said they decide based on nationality showed “foolish and ignorant” thinking, do you think the poster tells the prospective tenant that? You were also the one who didn’t know the remit of the WRC extends to tenancy disputes, and that it is discriminatory to refuse a tenant based on gender/pregnancy/state aid, you still don’t understand that it is illegal to refuse a prospective tenant on those grounds and that a LL cannot base their decision on “whatever they like”, the LL doesn’t have to admit it, the tenant just has to suspect that is the reason to bring a case to the WRC, you stand up there and argue that you are entitled to base your decision on whatever you like, see what happens. As Judge Groarke stated, ignorance is not a defence, neither is stupidity by the way.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790012#Comment_117790012

Who said landlords make rules? I certainly never did.

I merely pointed out that certain rules benefit landlords. Maybe there is a rule (e.g. capping) that they don't like. But they can't really be moaning about the principal of the State meddling in the market without conceding that other similar "meddling" greatly benefits them. Markets forces are constrained to act within the limits of what is legally permissible. The banning of bedsits is one such example which contributes to the reduction of available options, and hence the increase in prices for other landlords.

If you want to say that the State should stay away from the private market then that is fine. But be consistent. Complain about rent caps AND complain about the fact that they pump 800 odd million a year into landlords pockets in direct competition with working people who are also trying to compete for scarce housing. Just be consistent. If you don't mind about them pumping that 800 million into the market, and obviously distorting it from where it would otherwise be, then accept that they are entitled to try to manage the effects of that distortion. I'm sure plenty of greedy landlords just want more more more. That's human nature too.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790099#Comment_117790099

Wow. That's terrible. So you mean that the government won't basically guarantee an otherwise risky investment, in order to turn it into a risk-free investment for those who own property. They won't allow them to obtain a risky rate of return for a risk free investment? Well I never.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790010#Comment_117790010

Not sure why you can't understand my point.

As a landlord, you benefit from certain rules and regulations. If other regulations have a somewhat negative effect on you, then you can't suddenly be against the concept of regulation and blindly ignore that the ones that benefit you vastly outweigh the ones that don't.

Would you like it in the morning if the government suddenly announced that there was to be no more rent caps. But that there was also to be no more rent supplement or rent allowance or similar (plus, lets say,fair, a 4 week notice period for eviction or breaking lease). You can either come to an agreement with your tenants based on their ability to pay or you can turf them out and take on a paying tenant. (Bear in mind that there would be thousands of other landlords doing the same at the same time so even if your tenant is not availing of those payments, they would still be able to benchmark what they are paying you with what others are now paying their landlords). And anyone could put any structure up in their back garden and have people live there if they so wished? Do you think that your rental income would increase or decrease? Would it zoom up through where that previous cap was? Or would it decrease? What do you think?

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790444#Comment_117790444

Your highly intelligent.

I defer to your superior intellect.

your right, im wrong.

its an honor to have even conversed with someones of your superior intellect.

Jmc25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790506#Comment_117790506

I think that's the general theme of this thread alright.

I think it was suggested on here a while ago that LLs be allowed claim tax relief for their own time when they fix something in their rental property - effectively billing the taxpayer for a bit of DIY in their own property.

That nicely sums up the general consensus here I think.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790506#Comment_117790506

The government want private landlords to house HAP tenants, so yes it should be guaranteed like it was on the old RAS scheme, why should landlords take the risk, then the tenants stopped paying the council the changed the rules so that the landlord takes the hit, if the government is not happy with that then let them house them.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790690#Comment_117790690

Are they forcing landlords to accept that scheme against their wishes? Can a landlord say "no, I'm not taking a HAP tenant".

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790533#Comment_117790533

Name a few of these benefits and regulations landlords gain from.

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790696#Comment_117790696

No they sure are not.

But what they are doing is driving more and more people into HAP with the policies they perusing making a LL choose between the downsides of HAP or the downsides of the market they have influenced.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790696#Comment_117790696

Yes, you can't say no or discriminate against HAP tenents.

Jmc25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790722#Comment_117790722

You can say no, you just can't say that's the reason.

It'd be a very foolish landlord to even enter into a discussion with someone about why they weren't chosen as a tenant, other than "on this occasion I've decided to go with someone else".

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790638#Comment_117790638

Take it you never rented property with your bit of DIY,

And you not billing the taxpayer either for your time, you are deducting it from half the rent you're paying the government out of any profit.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790707#Comment_117790707

I named some above.

Lets have a look at Maynooth house shares on daft.ie. I choose this town as it is a university town. If you are a student moving to Maynooth, here are your current options for house share - https://www.daft.ie/sharing/maynooth-kildare

If I was a student then I definitely wouldn't mind saving a few hundred quid a month to stay in one of those wooden "garden rooms" if people were allowed to plonk one in and rent it out. Those can be nice and comfortable. You could have a big one with two beds in it and have two students in. If they allowed that alternative then rents there would come down. Because there is an alternative and less people would be prepared to pay 6-800 a month for a shared room in a house.

Aside from that, you yourself identified government policy and mismanagement as the reason for the dearth in current housing supply. That same lack of supply that is causing rents to shoot up. So you are definitely benefiting from that (by your own admission!). Some of the failures to deliver housing are due to the long drawn out processes for obtaining planning. Councillors voting against any substantial development. The regulations and rules can lead to a long drawn out delayed process.

And landlords are definitely beneftting from the money pumped into the private market in the form of social welfare payments. It decreases the supply available to workers trying to rent privately. Which in turn feeds back into a vicious circle.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790771#Comment_117790771

There are thousands of students units fast tracked all over the likes of Dublin, no problem getting planning permission with them, most out of reach for your average Irish student with their big rents.

Also, it's the same TD's and councillors who stands up in the Dail or give media interviews about the plight of the first time buyers and renters and then go back to their area and object to any planning in the area.

Jmc25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117790749#Comment_117790749

Bit of a reach here. Small business owners don't get tax relief for the hours they put into their business either.

Seeing as tax reliefs don't come at any cost to the Exchequer I honestly can't think of one good reason the government hasn't introduced something like that to foster the entrepreneurial spirit already!