Landlords selling up - Rents rising

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772453#Comment_117772453

Oh right, not the law then. Thanks

handlemaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117770984#Comment_117770984

All to simple a view. This has been discussed to death on previous threads.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117771022#Comment_117771022

New tenant finds out through a friend of a friend what rent the previous were paying.

They wait for a year or 2. They then take a case with the RTB.

Its up to the landlord to prove what rent he was getting paid before.

RTB sides with tenant. Tenant gets a nice chunk of back excess rent paid back from the landlord, plus rent going forward is at the reduced rate. And cant be increased more than inflation every year. Landlord also has the pleasure of a €20k fine to pay, just to make it worth the RTBs time.

A landlord would be foolish to try and get away with this sort of thing. The longer you get a way with it the bigger the bite out of your arse when you do get found out.

agoodpunt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772800#Comment_117772800

The 10 year is a one sided argument always ignored as it was when rents where rock bottom and usc, property tax and increased prsi came in...

It was a govt stealth tax on renters that would be pasted on eventually having already remove tax allowence to renters

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773438#Comment_117773438

From experience if your fair with a tenant and they have been paying below market rate the don't go around mouthing about what they were paying.

Saying that, if they did what's stopping me from saying they were getting a reduced rent because they do the lawns and generally maintains things around the house, how can PRTB prove that.

There are plenty of ways around these types of things when you have laws and regulations that only work one way.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117772531#Comment_117772531

Not what I said but still irrelevant as your question and objection were answered the rent paid has to be revealed

Flinty997

You want to be an idiot to buy a business and not ask to see what money it was making over the last 12 months.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117737171#Comment_117737171

They can't get out they are caught by the Tyrrelstown Amendment.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773671#Comment_117773671

You can say what you like, won't stop the RTB making a judgment against you. You can then challenge it in court and lose a ton of money.

At the end if the day it's a business. It's it's getting massive fines and incurring huge legal costs it's not worth it.

If you avoid all this stuff it's a viable business. Or if the risk is spread over a large number of units.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774678#Comment_117774678

"The rent paid has to be revealed" - absolutely, it has to be revealed to the RTB but it's not a requirement to reveal it to any potential bidder as you've already admitted

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774744#Comment_117774744

Yes, it is a viable business when tenants pay their rent and don't wreck the place, but you have no rights as a landlord, someone can move into a property and decide not to pay any rent, how long does it take to get them out.

If you buy a car on finance and stop paying how long will you have it before it's repossessed, a few months max, not only that but you are blacklisted after with all the major financial institutes, a big factor for the majority of people.

Jmc25

I know someone who went sale agreed and the sale fell through when the buyers solicitor asked for proof of the previous rent.

I've no idea of the specifics or what exactly was asked for but the previous low rent was disclosed and the buyer pulled out. Presumably of the question is asked through solicitors it's not one that you can avoid answering? So probably better to disclose it up front rather than hoping the question is never asked.

That person I know was billed for legal work done up to that point so it was a costly mistake.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774702#Comment_117774702

You would be a bigger idiot not to know what the going rent in the area is in the first place,

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774983#Comment_117774983

But the rent in the area could be very different to the rent being paid on a particular property. Isnt that the reason so many landlords got caught when the rules changed? Any of the rents that were below the going rate for the area got locked into that forever more unless the landlord wants to leave it empty for a few years or add on an extension & its not possible to extend an apartment.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775073#Comment_117775073

The moral of the story, don't try be a nice landlord. The rule should be changed, to allow for applying average rent for an area. And I'm talking about in the case of a new tenant not an existing tenant. There are Landlords that haven't hiked rents for years to existing good tenants.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117774770#Comment_117774770

No I never said that. I said if you look through all the RPZ laws you are likely to find it but it is irrelevant if it is law or not. Don't reveal it and your house will have less interest therefor sell at a lower price. I am pointing out it is irrelevant if law or not. You asked how would the buyer know previous rent and the answer is the seller will tell them regardless of law or sell for less. So your question has been answered more than once now as no potential landlord uyer will buy without this information.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775662#Comment_117775662

You seem to be changing the goalposts now from whether it's the law or not to it being irrelevant whether it's the law or not. Fair enough.

If you're selling a house, you're under no obligation to inform any prospective bidder whether the house has even been rented never mind what rent was being charged.

There are plenty of legitimate grievances for LLs to have, I'm not sure why some people feel the need to create extra imaginary ones.

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775728#Comment_117775728

If a buyer asks the EA is he not legally bound to give that information?

Presumably the seller isnt obliged to tell the EA in the first place but what if buyers solicitor asks, is there some rule about disclosing information?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775728#Comment_117775728

You are the one who moved the goal posts. You originally asked how would the buyer know the previous rent and it has been answered.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117773671#Comment_117773671

Generally id say that new tenants would try to find out what the old tenants were paying and ask.

Old tenant isnt going to lie to them.

Or if they even suspect the old tenant has lower rent then just lodge it with the RTB and let them do what they do best. Chase landlords, find against them and fine them. The onus is on the landlord to provide proof not the RTB. Thats the beauty of it not going to the courts for the RTB.

And afaik the rent is the rent. Not the work done by the tenant.

If a tenant pays you €1000 per month, the rent is €1000 per month for the purposes of the RTB. You cant say they paid you in kind on top of that.

I guess you might get away with it, but I definitely wouldnt tangle with the RTB.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776438#Comment_117776438

Not trying to be funny, but that is pushing it a bit far with the '' I definitely wouldn't tangle with the PRTB'' I have had a few tangles with them over the years and I can assure you, the is nothing to be worried about.

Why would a tenant be bothered with what the last tenant paid if they were happy to rent at what is advertised in the first place?

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776544#Comment_117776544

Ok, you win.

I give up :)

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776544#Comment_117776544

Because some people hate the existence of landlords and while nice to their faces will do ANYTHING to mess with them and get money back. People on this thread have already said how they would wait to make a claim and get a big payout.

I was in a pub and heard this guy telling his friends how he was messing with the property and landlady. When I went to the toilet I recognised him as one of my mother's tenants. He saw me as I was coming back and his face was a delight when he saw where I sat down. Gave him a nod and said expect a letter for notice of inspection tomorrow. He wasn't lying to his friends he had stolen various items from the property and sold them.

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776590#Comment_117776590

I know what you mean, blame the landlords for the government own incompetence, sounds better.

When you have a populist SF mouthpiece trying to bring in a different law every week, and just to keep his image with the poor misfortunate, he keeps renting himself, now I mean to say if you can't afford to buy a property of your own on a TD's salary and a partner with a Senator's salary, what hope has your average Tom of Mary got, but the gullible fall for this s*it .that's what your up against now.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776157#Comment_117776157

Yes, I asked how the buyer would know what the previous rent was and the correct answer is that they wouldn't unless the seller told them.

Others on the thread stated incorrectly that it was the law and that the seller has to tell them but that is entirely false as you well know.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117775899#Comment_117775899

As far as I'm aware, there is no legal obligation on the seller to tell the EA anything of the sort.

Jmc25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776590#Comment_117776590

I don't think someone needs to hate the existence of landlords to lodge a case if they suspected their landlord is flouting RPZs.

I would do it at the end of a tenancy if I thought I was due significant money back. Nothing personal on my hypothetical landlord, but they should have obeyed the regulations like everyone else so wouldn't feel bad about doing it either.

Business is business at the end of the day.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776727#Comment_117776727

And I told you it didn't matter and that the seller nor estate agent would be smart to do so. As a landlord it is your responsibility to know what the previous rent was in the last 2 years. It would be part of the due diligence and any lawyer would insist on a signed document about rent. Lawyer legally don't have to check the deeds but they are paid to do so and previous rent would be the same. I don't know if it is the law it is just going to have to be provided so legality doesn't matter. You can admit that it is actually required in the real world on fight the hill about legality Either way it is provided

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776752#Comment_117776752

Why wouldn't you address it so that another human being doesn't get a huge financial shock? That sounds like a vicious thing to do to somebody to me. Void of human conscience and treating a landlord as "other" rather than a person. Business is business but how would you feel if somebody knew you were building up a tax penalty and let you keep getting in more debt before they pull the trigger?

MBE220d

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776752#Comment_117776752

And what is your opinion on laws for landlords and none for tenants, I suppose that's fine with your sense of entitlement too.