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Does your club charge members admin fees for casual rounds?

  • 05-08-2021 8:45pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 10 Fourright


    So just got notified that our club is now going to be charging €7 if we use the golf Ireland app for casual rounds, to cover "admin fee". Maybe i am missing something but the app appears to calculate everything for you, so not sure what admin fees the club have?

    Our weekend comps are generally €7 to enter. Mid week are €5.

    So admin fee for casual round using the app is more expensive than mid week comps? Explain that one to me? Pure money grab by the club.

    Numbers in comps have been dropping in fairness but that in part is down to very poor prizes if you feature in the prizes. Example i know one member that won a weekend comp with over 100 participants and got €50.

    I was hearing nothing but positive feedback on the app from members but now a vast majority are not happy. All the work Golf Ireland put in and now clubs are undoing the work of bringing golf into the the modern arena/

    So wondering are any other clubs doing this and charging for using the golf Ireland App?


    C



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,554 ✭✭✭✭ Rikand


    Casual rounds free in our club. Whether you enter them on the app or using the club computer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭✭ callaway92


    Surely you can just do it without notifying the club. Real scum though by them and I’d be curious for Golf Ireland’s thoughts on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Fourright


    Ya you can do it but club have stated they are going to manually take money from your comp purse when they see casual rounds come through for HC. Terrible from the club. I don't believe they should charge as what admin fees could they have as app/golf Ireland do the updates nearly instantly.

    Really poor from a club that charged full whack during covid and have poor prizes for comps.


    Was going to mail golf Ireland but you have to leave GUI and fear of retribution from club. If they are willing to do this to members who knows what they would do if you speak up.


    Anyone would think they are trying to keep club HCs up for big club competitions by not having their members maintain a rolling HC.........



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭ blue note


    That's desperate from the club. I look at our comp results when they come through and have been surprised that the numbers playing comps seems to have dropped dramatically. I can understand a few more lads going away at weekends now, and just doing other stuff because some things are open now. But the drop off is much bigger than I'd expected.

    I think your club should call it what it is - a covid levy. I'd be surprised if the reason they're bringing this in isn't because they're way behind on revenue and this is due to covid.

    Or another thought - could it be to do with handicap manipulation? For those lads playing 3-4 times a week in particular, if you play those rounds as practice ones (not trying for the best possible score) but submit the scores anyway you can keep your handicap higher than it should be. Basically, if you're playing 3-4 times a week, one being a comp where you're trying to score as high as possible, you'll have about 6 scores where you're properly trying. So your handicap will be the best of 6 scores where your trying and 2 more where you're kind of trying. As opposed to 20 where you're trying. If people had to pay €7 for each of those casual ones they probably wouldn't bother submitting them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭ JimmyVik


    All free in ours.

    That would really p1ss me off if ours were to do that.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Fourright


    Ya could see why if it was handicap manipulation but that has always been going on before WHS and imo more difficult for people to manipulate. If the reason was this then just come out with it but they are tarnishing every member as potential cheats this way although they say jts admin.

    I'm a high handicap player but I want to submit scores and get my handicap down and I believe majority people are genuine.


    Yes some bandit players but no system will stop them. All clubs can do is hit players for exceptional scoring when big results come in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭ RoadRunner


    On the front it sounds a bit sneaky. But work out the average cost per round. If your club is a rock bottom annual membership, and after you work it out it's costs, say, €12 quid a round then you're still on a winner. Some people here are going to flame paying for practice rounds, but they may be in clubs with annual subscriptions in the €2k+ range. I play maybe 30 times a year which works out at nearly €50 a game - so I'd be against paying for practice rounds on top of that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 297 ✭✭ srfc d16


    Thankfully it has not happened in my club but I am pretty sure I would leave if they tried that.

    My annual subs allow me access to play casual rounds. Whether I count them or not is my own choice. I know members that have not entered comps of any kind in a few years as the times they are on do not suit them. Their membership is just a valid as the member who only plays comps. Really poor form in my opinion



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,714 ✭✭✭ CalamariFritti


    No and I'm pretty sure there would be uproar.

    Competition fees are steep enough tbh, €8 plus €2 for the twos club so thats a tenner every week or twenty if you play Fridays also. In my case thats another 400 to 500 every year on top of the annual sub. If I had to pay for casual I'm not sure what I would be paying my sub for. I might as well go 'distance' and play only opens then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,563 ✭✭✭ Russman


    100% on this. There would be uproar in my club if casual golf was charged for. Total money grab by whatever club(s) are doing it.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭ bustercherry


    Uncalled for by the club and totally scumbag behaviour.

    If it's members owned, I'd be questioning if this was ratified? If it's not member owned then I'd be saying they can fcuk right off and play away without topping up your account; including during members comps.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,923 ✭✭✭ $hifty


    Calamari is spot on above......what exactly are you paying membership for if you have to pay into comps AND to play casual?



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 21,838 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Kiith


    No way i'd be ok paying €7 for a casual round, and its definitely something that would make me change clubs.

    You pay a membership fee to not have to do that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Fourright


    Agreed and won't be paying it either. I'll just practice get better end up with an inflated HC and then enter a comp when I know I'm playing better than HC. It's driving me to be a bandit which passes me right off. Will be looking at other clubs memberships see what's on offer in the new year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭ Golfgraffix


    I can almost see the logic behind it but it’s flawed.

    There is no doubt that the whs has had an effect on competition participation and in turn the revenue generated from these comps. In the clubs where we run both the tee sheet and the comp side we have seen a 22% drop in entry. But the number of rounds played as a whole has gone up.

    Anecdotally this looks like a big chunk of members have decided to play casual counting golf over comps. Why this is, I have no idea but I guess it is members who don’t often have a chance to win but want to keep their handicap alive.

    The problem with charging for a casual round is that is not comparable to a comp fee as it’s not paid back out, in my club we pay out 60% of the comp revenue in prizes, balance funds things like interclub etc.

    I think the fix here is for clubs to look at who wins in comps, category prizes that are based on % of entrants works really well. So every comp will have a different handicap range division 1, etc. I’ve seen so many clubs where it’s the same winners.

    that’s my 2 cents



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,060 ✭✭✭ Ollieboy


    Interesting feedback.


    I know talking to clubs all over Ireland they are seeing issues with members sticking in practice rounds every day with the same partners. This is mostly people we would all refer to has professional bandits with no morals.


    I think what clubs are trying to do is make it as hard as possible to stop this type of cheating by making it difficult to post casual golf. And example I’ve seen is, cost, plus timesheet restrictions and playing partners restrictions.


    I doubt this is anything to do with revenue and the solution is unfortunately badly thought out by the usual weak committee system at clubs.


    if we already pay a golf Ireland levy, then it’s not right for the club to charge for it.


    Personally, I think casual golf shouldn’t count and that solves the issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭ bustercherry


    The problem with charging for a casual round is that is not comparable to a comp fee as it’s not paid back out, in my club we pay out 60% of the comp revenue in prizes, balance funds things like interclub etc.


    This sums it up perfectly. Comp fees should not be used to fund the operational expenses of the course and certainly could not be used in any financial forecasts. So I don't see how a club can justify it regardless of lost comps fees during covid restrictions, especially as a lot on the interclub stuff (or other outgoings it should be used for) was cancelled/restricted in the last year. Essentially the club are taking the p1ss.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭✭ callaway92


    Another thing I'd like the OP to confirm is if the club brought this in AFTER membership was already paid up this year.

    They can't turn around during the year and say they're now charging for casual rounds. Has to be against the terms of a membership that you agreed on.

    I'd be pissed off if my gym now started charging me fees per visit after I already paid a fortune for membership.

    I'd seriously get this checked up with Golf Ireland if I was you. Clearly the club don't give a **** about you so why should you be threading carefully here. Do what's needed and ask GI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Fourright


    Ya brought in after membership paid agree change in terms but no point saying Nothing now as apparently the membership runs from Sept to aug or so it was said this year.

    Membership was always paid in Jan but they stated that the membership year is Oct to Sept after we got back from covid.


    I queried as when I originally joined it was said Jan to Dec but told this year it never has been.

    Yet agm and rates only decided Iin October. They came looking for full sub for last year when the clubs reopened. Think covid hit the club hard and they are trying to drain every cent they can. In fairness a lot of work was done on the course past two years and even though I don't believe the membership month change I paid up. Talked to many members and all said they thought year was Jan to Dec.

    Not worth the grief to go to GUI I believe from reading online that it's at the clubs discretion on casual rounds.


    Rant over hopefully club will see sense or will try somewhere else and see what's on offer.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭✭ callaway92


    Wow, very strange I have to say.

    Would be questioning a lot of things with the club so tbh!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Fourright


    Ya a lot could be improved on the admin / communication / comp side of things but there are good points to the club as well. People, course in good nick and reasonable membership rates(no doubt they will go up in sept after posting this 😀).



  • Registered Users Posts: 924 ✭✭✭ OEP


    My club doesn't allow casual rounds for handicap on the same day as a competition, which I think is a reasonable compromise.



  • Registered Users Posts: 628 ✭✭✭ pauldoo


    Poor form by the club.

    For me the best thing about the new system is there is no requirement to play comps. I have 3 young kids and play a lot of 9 holes in the evening, it's brilliant to have the handicap move based on this.

    If my club started charging I would prob move club



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,831 ✭✭✭ DuckSlice


    My club does and the most one that uses it is the most one that was all for the charge at the AGM, also the main bandit in the club.

    Id love to know if the club are keeping a record of who is entering casual rounds and if they are paying.

    Golf Ireland's stance on it is that if the casual round is submitted it has to be processed for handicap regardless of payment. The issue of payment is between the club and member.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,530 ✭✭✭ RoadRunner


    That it was brought in after membership was paid is crazy (for a normal club). You don't have to confirm this, but my guess is the club is one of the big west links courses that charge local "members" next to nothing for membership but who's real business model is to make money on the yank visitors during normal times. They have got to be hurting massively as their membership subs will never be enough to sustain without the normal visitors and they are in crisis mode likely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    Clubs have to process them, but depending on how they are entered, will require certain prerequisites. Ours requires that the same system used for competitions is used for these scores and score cards are returned for checking. Also a sign-in sheet to be used before starting the round.

    People can use the GI app instead, but they have to return a score card as well.

    That way, the software records the rounds and they are also recorded on the Golf Ireland dashboard whether the GI app is used or not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Fourright


    No not one of the big links courses. Very reliant on members and a lot of society bookings. I could understand maybe 1 or 2 euro just to try stamp out any hc abuse but 7 euro is just wrong and money grab. Membership increased due to covid as other sports were not active last year. Think they will see a drop off in the coming year with this and the GAA making a full comeback.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,795 ✭✭✭✭ Mantis Toboggan


    I generally only play comps to try get my handicap down. If casual rounds count then I won't be paying 5e every week, possibly €150 per year on top of membership. Lots are similar so the club would be losing lots of revenue so I can see why they're charging.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭ Salvadoor


    What if there is no money in your account? Will the HC secretary manually remove your casual round from your GI record?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10 Fourright


    Not sure can go a bit negative on your purse but if I do then won't be able enter comps. I generally enter the comps but like to play casual as well at times and want them to count towards HC as I want to see my progress / deterioration 😀



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