Would a cashless society mean the end of illegal drugs and other crime ?

Big Gerry

I wonder would a cashless society lead to the end of organised crime ?

Without cash I'd imagine it would be very hard for criminals to operate.

If we had an official digital currency every single transaction would be logged making it impossible to hide money.

bigmac3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058201690/would-a-cashless-society-mean-the-end-of-illegal-drugs-and-other-crime

Hmmm yeah, let’s call it Bitcoin

Potential-Monke

Yeah, not a hope. If society goes cashless, the likes to Revolut will cover payments and other apps will come out to ensure privacy of transactions. I wouldn't mind it tbh, cash is a super spreader of viruses, hate using anything but new notes.

JPup

Yeah Bitcoin and the many other alternatives mean this is a definite no.

Strumms

The only people in the main who want cashless society are businesses and business people... they want to save money by...

not having handling charges on cash.

less cash on premises equals cheaper insurance.

having to pay less staff to process and count cash.

having less security.

having less staff in general.

i don’t know any regular Joe soap guy or girl whose ever said... “you know what would be great, if there wasn’t cash anymore”... it’s as stupid as it sounds...

you have money accessible, at home, in your pocket, work drawer, car....you won’t go hungry, in an emergency you need to get to a hospital, you’ll get there, card gets stolen, damaged, at home or on holiday, no biggie, in fact no problem, you got cash ? You got food to eat, a way to travel and security.

every holiday I’ve ever gone on I’m bringing xx hundred in cash, plus my card, most of the cash goes in the room safe and I take what I need for the day, I run out of cash or see some big expensive purchase, my card, perfect..

i get mugged on day 2...

scenario cashless crap society : I’ve no card, no phone and no ability to pay.

society now : I go back to my hotel, sad at loosing my phone, card and 200 euros but I have 800 euros left in the safe, I can cover my remaining expenses... food, transportation, hotel, gifts, few drinks etc etc..

cashless wont end drugs trade or any crime.

SEPT 23 1989

control control control

but sure it won’t effect me if I’m doing nothing wrong

wake up

Ubbquittious

No

yrreg0850

A cashless society is going to make everything more expensive.

How are we going to pay the handyman or tradesman who takes us out of a spot in an emergency.

Potential-Monke

I'd be of the opinion that cashless would be cheaper, less overheard, less staff to pay. Now, whether those savings would be passed on to the consumer is a different thing. Re: losing the card on holidays/being robbed, that's also covered, this is from AIB:

Emergency Cash

In emergency situations, if your credit card is lost or stolen when abroad, we can, on approval, provide you with emergency Cash up to US$5,000.00 (subject to available credit, Cash Advance and Currency Conversion fees & charges may apply).

Plus, with more banks and financial institutions allowing NFC payments with your phone, there are more options to pay. If you're really, really worried about something like that happened, go mad and install the chip into your arm, no one will rob your arm!

Trying to compare a cashless society to todays standards will never work. If societies move towards cashless, then you can be sure there will be plenty of tech to iron over these potential issues. And I'm also very wary of leaving cash in a safe in a hotel. It's not 100% secure.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117688792#Comment_117688792

Or you would not be able to get any work done by travellers because they only accept cash.

Esel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117688884#Comment_117688884

They don't accept Traveller's Cheques?

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689468#Comment_117689468

If you offer them a cheque they will always come back at you and say they can do the job cheaper for cash.

Lets say you owe them 400 euro for a job instead of paying them 400 euro by cheque they would be much happier if you paid them 350 euro in cash.

Oranage2

I doubt the government is going to look at every transaction. Tradesmen can still accept transactions and if asked they sold a couch or something.

I live in a society that's basically cashless now and it's handy, everything is done by your phone, no big chunky wallet and a ton of coins.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689484#Comment_117689484

How about telling them to fcuk off with their sub standard scam work in the first place and not owe them anything?

oceanman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689545#Comment_117689545

how do you know its sub standard? i have had work done by travellers over the years with no problem...

Del Griffith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058201690/would-a-cashless-society-mean-the-end-of-illegal-drugs-and-other-crime

Surveillance coin.

In such a scenario the powers that be would also have the ability to freeze your funds at a whim or reverse transactions (would you keep your life savings in PayPal?).

On the plus side you wouldn't need to worry about lodging a tax return since the revenue would already have a view of everything you and everyone else ever done. They wouldn't need to audit anybody. Is that a plus?

manonboard

I live in Finland. Although cash is still available. It's almost never used. I remember about 2 years ago using a paper note. I don't think I've seen cash being used in a shop for over a year.

Many shops don't accept it or it's socially arranged not to use it.

It works quite well. There is a high level of trust in the government n authorities.. this helps alot.

I think cashless society is definitely happening.. just gradually. It's impossible to pay for things like gyms with cash already. Definitely harder for crime on a low-level to happen.

No, it wouldn't. Crime will always find a way. What it will do is place more control into the hands of the powers that be.

We're going down a very slippery slope at the moment. Digital/biometric IDs will follow if the vaxx pass system gets into place.

Don't consent to a further erosion of your privacy and freedoms. It's of no benefit to anyone but government, big tech, and the pharmaceutical companies.

Fly_away

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117688666#Comment_117688666

I swear the Covid 19 pandemic has some people gone cracked.

Next, we'll be banning shared seating, cinemas, park benches and public toilets because they're virus 'super spreaders'.

HerrKapitan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058201690/would-a-cashless-society-mean-the-end-of-illegal-drugs-and-other-crime

The hse hackers asked for and deal in cryptocurrancy. Criminals are always near the front cutting edge of development. As soon as something is made, its not long until loopholes are found. And no more heavy suitcases to smuggle.

I think it will only suit criminal gangs more.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117688715#Comment_117688715

Are you serious? In the cashless scenario- what is stopping you from having a spare bank card in the hotel safe instead of cash?? I don't think you've thought this through at all.

In the cashless scenario - if you got mugged you could still have a card in the hotel room & access to much more money than 800e (which you might need now for replacement phone etc.).

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689545#Comment_117689545

Where I live a lot of people get their bins collected by travellers.

If cash goes they won't be able to make a living.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117691123#Comment_117691123

I trust they're licenced to collect refuse? They don't fcuk it into the first forestry they come across?

If they're clever enough to upload call out videos I'm sure they can work out how to PayPal.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117691606#Comment_117691606

I don't use them but I know that they are "fully insured" boss.

Stihl waters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117691123#Comment_117691123

That's the silliest reason I've seen yet to get rid of cash, because a few travelers won't be able make a living ffs

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117691696#Comment_117691696

I've never met a traveller who didn't deal in cash.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117691677#Comment_117691677

A licence is not insurance.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689690#Comment_117689690

Are you serious? I’m serious. If a bank card is stolen, the card gets canceled on reporting it.

I don’t know anybody with a spare ATM card lying around in ‘their’ name for an account which they already have a card for.

bnt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117691740#Comment_117691740

In my case it's two cards for two accounts: current account and credit card. When I travel I keep them in separate pockets and they generally back each other up. These days both cards are basically the same in terms of usability, since they both work wherever VISA is accepted.

As for the original question: I have no qualms about the end of cash itself - it was always a pain - and I'm not really concerned about the government or crime. If you commit a crime, you are infringing on the civil liberties of other people, so you forfeit your own civil liberties.

I am more concerned about commercial interests using your financial data, since they stand to benefit. For example, imagine if an insurance company could access your shopping receipts, and knew whether you bought cigarettes or ice cream. They could offer this as a choice to give you lower rates, like car insurance where you can agree to have your driving habits monitored by a black box. Money talks, as always.

Strumms

Cash isn’t a pain at all, I have cash in my wallet, safe at home and the car,

to be 100% reliant on a piece of plastic ? no... i don’t see it happening in my lifetime, any government backing this will be significantly damaged as a government and party for a long time.

PMBC

Im old fashioned as well as old and I prefer to use cash except for large transactions. Using card I find it is more difficult to have a feeling for what you are spending overall or even the cost of individual items. I think cashless is increasingly/will become increasingly the norm.

deise121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117688636#Comment_117688636

bitcoin is not untraceable and you're an absolute idiot if you think it is

bigmac3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117692666#Comment_117692666

If you put it in an NFT, it is. You’re a complete and utter idiot, if you don’t know that.

Mister Vain

It wouldn't wipe it out completely but it would make it a lot more difficult for them, especially if they're not tech savy. I haven't used cash in ages. I don't miss carrying all the small change around. In China you can actually pay for items with your face now.

Potential-Monke

Have they fixed multi-quoting yet?

@Fly_away I was against cash long before covid. And it's true. You've no idea if the cash you handle at any stage has been in some scrotes hole or infected socks, or some mingers snatch or manky bra. That on top of the general public who still, after a global pandemic, can't manage basic hygiene handling it... no, I've had that thought for a long time, and covid has only recently become part of my distrust of handling cash. Shared seating; that's one of my points I'll be making about not returning to work, for the same reason of the general hygiene one above.

@Strumms it's not 100% reliance anymore though. Most banks offer the ability to link your card to your Google/Apple Pay, so even if your card or phone get stolen, get another cheap modern phone, log in with your Google/Apple account, pass a bit of security and boom, back in action. And it'll get easier going forward, as cash starts to phase out in most major places imo.

I just carry a bunch of saffron around and shave off a bit here and there to pay for my purchases. You need a good knife though.

RulesOfNature

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117692666#Comment_117692666

There are literally a hundred ways of making bitcoin untraceable. You are the absolute idiot here.

'B-BUT ITS A PUBLIC LEDGER'

Hello, I'd like to introduce you to mixers, tumblers, blockchain hoppers, DNM wallets and monero.

RulesOfNature

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117688666#Comment_117688666

They literally could not. By law Revolut, n26, etc etc have to be transparent to the government.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693890#Comment_117693890

Ah yeah, but shur not every app is legal. Where there's a will, there's a way. Maybe not Revolut and the likes (unless your dealer is your mate, then I can't really see an issue there, could be played off as lending cash on nights out). But there will be something, no doubt, should society go cashless.

Mister Vain

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693832#Comment_117693832

...........

The J Stands for Jay

EUR goes digital, black market cash economy moves to GBP or USD and carried on as of nothing happened.

Girly Gal

It's only a matter of time before society goes cashless as most young adults don't use cash, so it'll be much easier to implement in time. The pandemic has also accelerated this as more and more transactions in general are cashless. A cashless society will not mean an end to organised crime, in fact it could lead to an increase in crime.

Guy:Incognito

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689628#Comment_117689628

Cash has always been seen as filthy.

People are just starting to listen a bit more now.

As for public toilets........................

shar01

Genuine question - what happens when IT systems go down (like the Ulster Bank debacle of a few years ago)?

whisky_galore

Crime will always find a way, always has. It won't disappear.

Dempo1

In relation to the specific question, No. Bitcoin (which I still can't get my head around to be honest) seems to be the new choice of currency for certain large scale criminal enterprises albeit governments around the world seem intent on legislating its use albeit proving very difficult. There's also I suppose the uncertainty around its viability. Large scale Traffickers have proved quite resilient in coming up with creative ways to operate.

I do think however areas such as the Black economy will be curtailed substantially as we move more and more to a cashless world with every financial transaction verifiable as such.

Online / Digital banks have tightened up also becoming far more rigorous in monitoring large transactions.

Certainly the day to day lower ranking street dealers will thankfully find it more challenging and that's not a bad thing.

blackbox

The logical way to get rid of crime associated with illegal drugs is to make those drugs legal.

Getting rid of cash doesn't get to the core problem.

deise121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693887#Comment_117693887

and you know what's completely untraceable? CASH changing hands. The average criminal will not know how to make a bitcoin transaction untraceable.

It would go cashless too. Cryptocurrency already used for criminal purposes.

Criminals are usual several steps ahead of commentary.

RulesOfNature

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694177#Comment_117694177

You have this mindset that cash and crypto are somehow competing when in reality they have their own separate purposes. With crypto you can transfer millions and millions of currency easily over countries and borders, something you cant do easily with cash. Cash might be good for low level criminals and dealers, but at the high level they're using cryptocurrency.

So yeah it just depends on your operation, and how savvy you are with modern ways of circumventing laws. The 'average' criminal is an idiot, but a very smart one will know how to hide their trail through cryptocurrency.

crooked cockney villain

I really cannot understand people who prefer plastic over cash. Tap and go takes longer, often fails the first time, and don't even start me on tapping with a phone. Hasn't happened often but I refuse to use any business that doesn't accept cash (I also refuse to use any of the increasing amount of McDonald's branches that only allow you to order on the kiosk rather than at the till).

Another one that baffles me about tap and go, so many vendors keep the machine out of view, you haven't a breeze how much you are tapping for.

People who use card basically have no respect for anybody else, phuck you, I'll take five attempts to tap using Apple Pay if I feel like it, you can wait behind me.