Why don't some cyclists use cycle lanes?

07Lapierre

This discussion reminds me of a certain poster who gave the cycle “path” along North strand as an example of a “perfectly good” bike lane. He couldn’t understand why anyone on a bike wouldn’t use it!

https://goo.gl/maps/Y1aGhc9quSypUQZ88

Podge_irl

Oh god, and they also wanted a fatwa against any cyclists on the pavement and couldn't see the logical dissonance there.

There are pluses and minuses to different types of segregated cycle lanes. Two way segregated lanes tend to give you options to overtake into the oncoming lane (when safe) but they can make turning right quite difficult and time-consuming. Single segregated lanes sometimes have issues with yielding (obviously they should retain the same rights as the road) but I want to be clear that paint on a footpath is not a segregated cycle lane in my book. The likes of what they are installing on Griffith Ave would be a proper segregated single carriage cycle lane - but it is going to be next to impossible to overtake on that - frustrating but not the end of the world as long as they have regular "gaps" to let you out onto the main road to do so.

I am reasonably fond of what we have here in Geneva, which is a slightly raised cycle lane and then a slightly raised footpath beside it. Not perfect, but you can easily transfer to the main road to overtake and then return to the cycle lane but there remains enough delineation that traffic doesn't generally impeach onto it. Unfortunately I'm not sure it would work in Ireland as it would simply be parked on with great gusto.

https://www.google.com/maps/@46.2507084,6.1511006,3a,75y,5.79h,86.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG1Pmj6VGthP6fEA2tKTbNg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

thesimpsons

new cycle lane installed outside my house in recent years - there is no way to get out of it at the end of the 750m unless you go on to the footpath or get off the bike and walk through a tiny gap. It has deeply recessed rainwater shore covers (the grids type ones) every 100m and is currently badly in need of hedge trimming, but hey, it all counts in the council's xkm of countywide cycle lanes so they get their kudos for that. I sent the council photos of the debris on the cycle lane - they are still scheduling cleaning despite 5 reminders.

Weepsie

The lanes on Griffith avenue (and I'm still bewildered by the parking they've retained) are starting to fill with debris, and I don't imagine they'll be kept free on long stretches.

At the Mobhi Road end, the residents are very proactive in sweeping leaves and mulching them, though one had a habit of making a big pile and leaving it in what is now the cycle lane.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696640#Comment_117696640

Yes, that's me, and I still can't understand why it's preferable to cycle slowly up a steep enough hill with a bus chugging along behind you, trying to overtake, when you could just nip in to the cycle lane, completely separated from the traffic, and merge back in when safe to do so when you get to the top of the hill.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693088#Comment_117693088

You might think that, but you'd be wrong... /waves at @07Lapierre

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699091#Comment_117699091

hill?

Seth Brundle

This might help explain why they might not be used

https://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes/

People in Galway may be familiar with Doughiska and it's completely stupid cycle lanes...

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699301#Comment_117699301

That Galway photo is hard to look at! The council must be very proud of their work.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699219#Comment_117699219

hill?

Heh. :-)

In fairness, I think I've seen you post average cycle speeds of 50kmh? Speeds that made me raise an eyebrow, anyway. So no bother to you, I'm sure, or anyone who is properly fit but yes, that's a hill, certainly to someone as unfit as I currently am, and certainly to some of the cyclists I see regularly there going reeeallly slowly up the hill.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699362#Comment_117699362

That is just bizarre! Why would the normal rules of the road not apply there - traffic coming on to the main road has to yield to traffic on the road (including cyclists)? Presumably cars coming onto the road do have to yield to cars anyway?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699403#Comment_117699403

definitely not me doing 50km/h average, that'd be superhuman.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699413#Comment_117699413

The cycle lane is not on the road so cyclists are expected to yield at every junction.

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699549#Comment_117699549

It's a classic really. Got international attention as well.

Part of the rationale was to make cyclists give way to the drivers, I assume. They definitely have to yield in any interpretation of the rules, I think, based on all the yield triangles.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699413#Comment_117699413

that's an insanely common feature of irish cycle paths though. cyclists who are proceeding straight on being instructed to yield to traffic coming from lesser side roads.

often it's simply achieved by making the cycle lane 'disappear'; as in 'we're not even going to try to make an effort to manage how cyclists cross':

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2764484,-6.1879376,3a,46.2y,176.97h,87.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn4X27L9eSpI5jsBsYkEwmQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Macy0161

When commuting I generally use them (even the N11!) except for one spot that throws you out in an awful position having ceded priority.

I carry on why a cyclist might use the road - generally full of crap (my experience is far more likely to puncture in a cycle lane than on the road), shared use or de facto shared use which isn't appropriate at any kind of speed, the ceding of priority, parked cars, awful exit points, other road users taking the space before looking to see if anyone is coming...

The tl:dr is they're designed by people who don't cycle, who just want people who do out of the way of cars (and to tick boxes).

magicbastarder

and they're a piece of piss to install; you don't need to do any engineering or redesign of the road, just retrofit a cycle lane with some paint and maybe replace the grass verge with tarmac. they're often putting cyclists in a space which was never designed to accomodate them.

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699091#Comment_117699091

Well I can’t be arsed explaining it to you again… but if you didn’t understand the first time, I guess there’s no point.

Here's a new one near me up a slight hill, solid white and a dead end. What's not to love? The only reason those ones get built is to satisfy planning for new developments. There are many more in the area.

cletus

Having seen some new bike lanes go in locally, I'm pretty sure the fellas putting in the footpaths are told anywhere a path goes, put in a section of bike lane too. Unfortunately, that seems to be as far as the planning

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701000#Comment_117701000

There needs to be some basic national standards, surely. Specifying things like minimum widths, and basic logic/cop-on around safety standards, such as "You've got a cycle lane that needs to exit onto a road? Right, it needs to do so cyclists can do so safely!" Isn't this the sort of thing the RSA should be all over? Maybe if a cycling lobby group were to approach them?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117700791#Comment_117700791

You're right, there's absolutely no point explaining to me why it's big or clever to huff and puff your bike slowly up a bus lane on a hill, with a 20-tonne double decker a metre behind your rear wheel the whole time, when there's an alternative a metre away, separated by a stone wall; nor why it's fine for adult cyclists to cycle on narrow city centre footpaths.

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701146#Comment_117701146

North strand is city centre. That lane is on a narrow footpath…in fact that’s all it is a narrow footpath. As for huffing and puffing up a hill while holding up a bus? So what? Do it often enough and you’ll get fitter.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701146#Comment_117701146

That's not a cycle lane. It's a footpath someone painted a bicycle on.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701311#Comment_117701311

A footpath that's between 1.5 and 1.9 metres wide, not even counting the cycle lane, is not "narrow." And I can huff and puff up that cycle lane (and get fitter!) without a 20-tonne bus up my arse. But I thought you weren't going to bother continuing this conversation?

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701358#Comment_117701358

I lied! Any bus driver that can’t overtake you is a crap driver and shouldn’t be driving a bus. See your not the problem on the road, it’s crap bus drivers that drive up the arse of slow cyclists that need the kick up the arse.

Weepsie

In normal traffic, in normal times, you're going to be passing that bus several times I'd wager, even with moderate fitness, especially with the cars that'll cut into the lane to skip the traffic.

The design of that lane is more likely to cause accidents. Even the wall there will potentially prevent a driver spotting you as they cut out to skip the queue and the angle it drops you out on the road is quite remarkable

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701319#Comment_117701319

Strangely enough, the lanes on the M50 only exist as lanes because someone painted those lanes on. Most motor traffic still seems to manage to understand that they're separate lanes, most of the time. I've seen this "paint isn't infrastructure" thing on a lot of social media, but actually, it usually is.

magicbastarder

You can't create a motorway just with paint though.

Gary Scrod

They are too busy using footpaths if the AH thread is anything to go by.