Why don't some cyclists use cycle lanes?

Smiley012

Hi all,

I am an avid cyclist myself, I try to cycle out on the roads as much as possible, but I get terrified as I have had so many near misses. A thing that does bring my joy are dedicated cycle lanes - they bring me off the road and make me feel super safe, especially along Wickham by Dundrum, Sandyford, down along Marley, by Tallaght, Dun Laoghaire etc etc etc.

What I don't understand is other cyclists who cycle IN traffic, despite there being a great cycle lane next to them.

I don't want to be provoking or start any heated discussions, I'm just not sure. I have literally cycled alongside people, ahead of people who are cycling in the road. Is there a reason I don't comprehend for people not cycling on lanes? Is it faster to be on the road?

Because have cake and eat it

I hate the cycling lane which was built on my road, I like to cycle with traffic and now i have to try and cross a busy road to access this stupid lane full of kids on scooters.

Then I have to cross back again to my house and if I try and cycle on the road with the traffic drivers are blaring their horns and gesticulating to the stupid cycle lane that is empty most of the day.I feel like shouting at them that i never asked for road space to be reduced by a third so dont take it out on me.

This lane was supposed to be temporary but no sign of it going anywhere, temporary my ass.

HalfAndHalf

If they build a continuous cycle lane round all of favourite 50-100km spins, wide enough to overtake scenic riders I’ll use them all the time. Unfortunately they haven’t and they won’t.

magicbastarder

not all cycle lanes are created the same. and a significant amount are **** in my experience. so if i happen on an off road cycle lane i'm not familiar with, experience tells me it's likely to be **** so i'll take the road on that basis. so maybe i've been one of those cyclists you've seen who's cyling alongside a cycle path which actually is fit for purpose, but doesn't know till they've seen it.

Smiley012

Thanks for the responses, I totally understand the frustration when they are built so badly. Actually, now that I think of it, a huge hate of mine was along the N11, as it was just awful, really terrible road surface. I wanted to cycle into town from Stillorgan, but it was just so terrible. The new part around the bus stop near the Stillorgan overflow carpark is another terrible way of handling bikes/cars/buses/people.

I forget at times when I mainly use the ones around me that I KNOW are good, if that makes sense. Around Marley/Sandyford and leading to Tallaght, a lot of that is quite good. Still some hairy moments with kids and dog walkers.

magicbastarder

i used to (before the pox) commute from beside DCU to leopardstown. i was happy to use the cycle lane on the rock road, for example, but not happy to use the one on the leopardstown road, as that latter one was simply a cycle lane retrofitted to a footpath with the magic of paint.

Tell me how

As others have said, two many cycle lanes are installed to meet targets for having done so but with scant regard for how they will be used.

In many locations, they just disappear at junctions or roundabouts meaning I'd be inclined to move out of them before that happens to 'own' the road and not run the risk of being hit from a car whose driver things I will automatically apparate across the junction.

Also, in some other cases where they do exist, they can be occupied by stationary vehicles and so again I will move out of the cycle lane in to the 'normal' lane to ensure I am seen and can pass the vehicle without it being claimed I just drove out of the cycle lane in to oncoming traffic.

It's great to see them going in, but there is a distance to go before they are fully functional.

Wishbone Ash

They are generally designed by motorists and people who think cyclists are not 'traffic'.

Wildly Boaring

I generally cycle in the sticks.

Sometimes I don't and like a fool I try to use them.

Was on one past Intel lately and a bus for the construction site just drove straight out the gate of the site into me.

Was on one in Johnstown, Navan. Glass and dog shite everywhere. And then it just ended!! Had to cycle out onto a pedestrian crossing.

Was on one coming out of dunsaughlin towards Dublin. Lovely sailing along past the last estate on the left and then it swung around the corner into the estate with no way for me to get off it.

New one at colpe cross from Dublin side toward cople. Cycle lane where it's handy to cycle on the straight past the nursing home. Mind you it just disappears for the bus stop. . Then none at the pinch point, you know the dangerous roundabout.

Ditto new spine road in bettystown. Lane just ends BEFORE the roundabouts. And you've to get out into traffic via the pedestrian crossing ramp. And it disappears for any bus stop, junction, rounabout (even one with no exit across the lane, it still disappears)

As a civil engineer it infuriates the hell out of me that any type of engineer would put their name to such shite. I'd be too embarrassed. Should be held to account for their ineptitude.

Breezer

I popped into Decathlon this evening and decided to take the cycle track from the Ballymun Road and back.

On the way in, I had to go back onto the road anyway, because the cycle track was blocked off where there’s some work going on. I could have done some swerving around fences into the narrow temporary cycle track they’ve put in, but I didn’t trust it would be free of debris and I’d have had nowhere to go once in it.

On the way back out, I was forced to cycle through a very large and very wet bush which was completely blocking the cycle track, then ended up in a load of debris, then had to dismount and wheel the bike off a kerb, across a road and back up onto a kerb on the other side. And then I had to go back onto the road again anyway to turn right on the Ballymun Road southbound. I could have crossed at the toucan crossing and continued on the southbound cycle track, but that brings you left into Northwood a few metres later, and I wanted to go into town.

This is a cycle track built on what was a greenfield site, going to a large sports shop, that caters for cyclists. I won’t be taking it again.

Low Energy Eng

The cycle lanes I used to use was full of broken glass and so I presume was never cleaned.

The road just didn't seem to have this issue.

Atlantic Dawn

You get complaints if you want to actually get up to a mildly challenging speed of 30km/h by people thinking the cycle lanes are like a child's playground rather than a commuting artery so you just can't win.

Cookie_Monster

cycle lanes are for townies

C3PO

Like many of the previous posters, I would happily use cycle lanes if they were fit for purpose but unfortunately most aren’t!

Buddy Bubs

Debris from the road gathers in them, stones, glass, sticks etc...they are brutal.

jazz_jazz

Twice in the last few months I've been walking on the footpath, which has a cycle lane next to it, and have met a cyclist coming against me on the footpath. Both times I've had to move into the cycle lane to walk on as they continue cycling on the footpath. These are cycle lanes that have newly had bollards placed along them separating the lane and the road for safety.

quickbeam

As a motorist the cycle lane infrastructure looks pretty good. You don't really realise just how crap it really is until you start to use it yourself. I'd echo plenty of things mentioned already - lanes just coming to a dead end with no safe merge back in to traffic; lanes taking you in completely the wrong direction with no way to get off smoothly instead needing to negotiate a kerb; lanes that treat you as a pedestrian instead of traffic - having to use the pedestrian traffic lights to cross busy junctions is a real bug bear of mine.

Then you have a lovely long stretch like the Royal Canal pathway which would be ideal for commuting in to Dublin city, but it's blocked by gates that require you to dismount to negotiate around. Same with entering places like Tolka Park on a bike.

Maybe I was very naive, but I have to say it was a shock to the system just how bad the infrastructure is, while superficially looking quite good so our politicians and civil servants can pat themselves on the back for a job well done for a cleaner and healthier transport system.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685780#Comment_117685780

Twice in the last week I had to leave the cycle lane and go into the road because there were cars parked in the cycle lane.

But it's not an us vs them thing. Yesterday alone I had to brake suddenly (in my car) on two different roundabouts, as people in other cars joined the roundabout incorrectly.

The fact that some people do the wrong thing in some circumstances has no real bearing on the discussion at hand

magicbastarder

this one has come up here before - on the main road in and out of the city centre for anyone living north of the airport, cyclists are expected to yield to people leaving or entering a pub. which is a total violation of the basic concept that people continuing on their heading on a main road have right of way.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4246836,-6.2296674,3a,75y,310.33h,77.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sx8jY2pyABWyBvbf846DeQg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

and only a few hundred metres further north - this path is the footpath *and* cycle path for people coming to and from swords - in both directions:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4321055,-6.229975,3a,75y,303.22h,89.02t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sclnnJY9qmyQPcIVEJAM8XA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DclnnJY9qmyQPcIVEJAM8XA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D292.11923%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

Dr_Colossus

This little British clip sums cycle lanes up pretty well, same and worse examples here on these isles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyd_KGUh10g

Montage of Feck

Because they are almost universally crap. Unless they are a complete A to B route they are pointless and potentially lethal as the video above highlights.

rolling boh

general condition of them is main reason i avoid lots of debris on them make them unsuitable unless you are on something with near bullet proof tyres but if you are on those you are most likely tipping along a bit too slow for faster cyclists so that will cause problems i would think .

Podge_irl

In built up areas I generally hate using off-road cycle lanes. They are not well maintained, they force you to yield to ridiculously small side roads constantly, some of them make it almost impossible to safely overtake over cyclists and they can make it quite difficult to make right hand turns.

That being said, I would use them always if there is a lot of traffic/non-moving traffic or if they are well built and well maintained.

Richard Hillman

Parts of the N11 are like Paris-Roubaix.

There are people who take the piss though. I seen somebody last week cycling on the slip road between Sandyford and Dundrum M50 turn offs. It has one of the best cycle lanes you can find, completely secluded from the road.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685780#Comment_117685780

Liar.

Didn't happen.

Yes, but what about that time someone in a car broke a red light?

It happened to you twice? You're fierce unlucky altogether.

were some of the reactions I got when I queried why the **** adult cyclists think it's fine to cycle on the footpath, so I wouldn't expect too much sympathy here...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117692917#Comment_117692917

I don't think you'd find many in support of riding the footpath here. Only time I can think of it being acceptable is when accompanying a young child.

Certainly annoys the bejaysus out of me when I see it or have someone behind me trying to get by. (Tip don't squeak your breaks at me, that dose NOT go down well)

standardg60

For me, the stretch of the N81 between the two entrances to Killinarden is a perfect example of the nonsense that cycle lanes are.

Going through the first junction the cycle lane blends beside the adjoining footpath (fine) , but afterwards the two become one before spitting you back out onto the road at the Jobstown Inn.

They are currently (severely) narrowing the road heading towards the Inn junction. No doubt there will be a shiny new cycle path now beside the footpath before throwing me back out onto the road at the lights. Utterly utterly pointless!

nomdeboardie

I’ve listed my share of grievances over the years, here and elsewhere, including the points made by other posters above. This time I’m interested to see the 'overtaking' issue for off-road/protected lanes mentioned by two. Not that I’m fast enough to have to overtake much 😳, but when I do I often feel I have to get down /out of the lane onto the road to pass safely, especially as it freaks me out sometimes when other cyclists pass me closely. I think this issue is going to become more problematic as more of the 'protective dividers' are being slapped down onto roads to hive off very narrow (single-direction) cycle lanes (e.g. Newtownpark Ave, Rock Road, Kill Lane in Dublin). And even the (wider) bidirectional facilities such as the seafront development in Dun Laoghaire can be problematic when cyclists stray over the centre line 'for no particular reason' near oncoming riders, or travel 2-abreast /en-famille without a thought about how hard it is for riders to overtake them from behind etc.

07Lapierre

This discussion reminds me of a certain poster who gave the cycle “path” along North strand as an example of a “perfectly good” bike lane. He couldn’t understand why anyone on a bike wouldn’t use it!

https://goo.gl/maps/Y1aGhc9quSypUQZ88

Podge_irl

Oh god, and they also wanted a fatwa against any cyclists on the pavement and couldn't see the logical dissonance there.

There are pluses and minuses to different types of segregated cycle lanes. Two way segregated lanes tend to give you options to overtake into the oncoming lane (when safe) but they can make turning right quite difficult and time-consuming. Single segregated lanes sometimes have issues with yielding (obviously they should retain the same rights as the road) but I want to be clear that paint on a footpath is not a segregated cycle lane in my book. The likes of what they are installing on Griffith Ave would be a proper segregated single carriage cycle lane - but it is going to be next to impossible to overtake on that - frustrating but not the end of the world as long as they have regular "gaps" to let you out onto the main road to do so.

I am reasonably fond of what we have here in Geneva, which is a slightly raised cycle lane and then a slightly raised footpath beside it. Not perfect, but you can easily transfer to the main road to overtake and then return to the cycle lane but there remains enough delineation that traffic doesn't generally impeach onto it. Unfortunately I'm not sure it would work in Ireland as it would simply be parked on with great gusto.

https://www.google.com/maps/@46.2507084,6.1511006,3a,75y,5.79h,86.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG1Pmj6VGthP6fEA2tKTbNg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

thesimpsons

new cycle lane installed outside my house in recent years - there is no way to get out of it at the end of the 750m unless you go on to the footpath or get off the bike and walk through a tiny gap. It has deeply recessed rainwater shore covers (the grids type ones) every 100m and is currently badly in need of hedge trimming, but hey, it all counts in the council's xkm of countywide cycle lanes so they get their kudos for that. I sent the council photos of the debris on the cycle lane - they are still scheduling cleaning despite 5 reminders.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696640#Comment_117696640

Yes, that's me, and I still can't understand why it's preferable to cycle slowly up a steep enough hill with a bus chugging along behind you, trying to overtake, when you could just nip in to the cycle lane, completely separated from the traffic, and merge back in when safe to do so when you get to the top of the hill.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693088#Comment_117693088

You might think that, but you'd be wrong... /waves at @07Lapierre

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699091#Comment_117699091

hill?

Seth Brundle

This might help explain why they might not be used

https://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes/

People in Galway may be familiar with Doughiska and it's completely stupid cycle lanes...

Heraclius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699301#Comment_117699301

That Galway photo is hard to look at! The council must be very proud of their work.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699219#Comment_117699219

hill?

Heh. :-)

In fairness, I think I've seen you post average cycle speeds of 50kmh? Speeds that made me raise an eyebrow, anyway. So no bother to you, I'm sure, or anyone who is properly fit but yes, that's a hill, certainly to someone as unfit as I currently am, and certainly to some of the cyclists I see regularly there going reeeallly slowly up the hill.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699362#Comment_117699362

That is just bizarre! Why would the normal rules of the road not apply there - traffic coming on to the main road has to yield to traffic on the road (including cyclists)? Presumably cars coming onto the road do have to yield to cars anyway?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699403#Comment_117699403

definitely not me doing 50km/h average, that'd be superhuman.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699413#Comment_117699413

The cycle lane is not on the road so cyclists are expected to yield at every junction.

tomasrojo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699549#Comment_117699549

It's a classic really. Got international attention as well.

Part of the rationale was to make cyclists give way to the drivers, I assume. They definitely have to yield in any interpretation of the rules, I think, based on all the yield triangles.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699413#Comment_117699413

that's an insanely common feature of irish cycle paths though. cyclists who are proceeding straight on being instructed to yield to traffic coming from lesser side roads.

often it's simply achieved by making the cycle lane 'disappear'; as in 'we're not even going to try to make an effort to manage how cyclists cross':

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2764484,-6.1879376,3a,46.2y,176.97h,87.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sn4X27L9eSpI5jsBsYkEwmQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Macy0161

When commuting I generally use them (even the N11!) except for one spot that throws you out in an awful position having ceded priority.

I carry on why a cyclist might use the road - generally full of crap (my experience is far more likely to puncture in a cycle lane than on the road), shared use or de facto shared use which isn't appropriate at any kind of speed, the ceding of priority, parked cars, awful exit points, other road users taking the space before looking to see if anyone is coming...

The tl:dr is they're designed by people who don't cycle, who just want people who do out of the way of cars (and to tick boxes).

magicbastarder

and they're a piece of piss to install; you don't need to do any engineering or redesign of the road, just retrofit a cycle lane with some paint and maybe replace the grass verge with tarmac. they're often putting cyclists in a space which was never designed to accomodate them.

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117699091#Comment_117699091

Well I can’t be arsed explaining it to you again… but if you didn’t understand the first time, I guess there’s no point.

Here's a new one near me up a slight hill, solid white and a dead end. What's not to love? The only reason those ones get built is to satisfy planning for new developments. There are many more in the area.

cletus

Having seen some new bike lanes go in locally, I'm pretty sure the fellas putting in the footpaths are told anywhere a path goes, put in a section of bike lane too. Unfortunately, that seems to be as far as the planning

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701000#Comment_117701000

There needs to be some basic national standards, surely. Specifying things like minimum widths, and basic logic/cop-on around safety standards, such as "You've got a cycle lane that needs to exit onto a road? Right, it needs to do so cyclists can do so safely!" Isn't this the sort of thing the RSA should be all over? Maybe if a cycling lobby group were to approach them?

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117700791#Comment_117700791

You're right, there's absolutely no point explaining to me why it's big or clever to huff and puff your bike slowly up a bus lane on a hill, with a 20-tonne double decker a metre behind your rear wheel the whole time, when there's an alternative a metre away, separated by a stone wall; nor why it's fine for adult cyclists to cycle on narrow city centre footpaths.

07Lapierre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117701146#Comment_117701146

North strand is city centre. That lane is on a narrow footpath…in fact that’s all it is a narrow footpath. As for huffing and puffing up a hill while holding up a bus? So what? Do it often enough and you’ll get fitter.