Mayo GAA Discussion

Audioslaven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123130015#Comment_123130015

Horan gave us a team that were so enjoyable to watch. I loved that period and was so excited to see what they would do in games and deliver. If I am been honest, I am bored watching us now.

On us now, in fairness this was coming after last season. Once they did a review, they called McStay into question and damaged McStay imo ….he was always on his last year after that. A good few players have left and I was expecting at least one more but that has not materialised. Mcstay should have brought in a new team around him this year to freshen everything up but he didn't do anything, didn't try early in his tenure to get new lads in and now is forced more to do so this year, he never set a real intent when he came in like Horan did, happy to keep the same show on the road for some players. He has made loads of mistakes and his road now ends in 2025.

On the Mayo development squads, Mayo have loads of development squads from U14 upwards but is seems so disjointed and even coaches in one grade are not aware of issues that effects them from another grade. I saw one instance of this last year as a parent of a young lad in a squad. It seems every grade of the underage is like a silo with a lack of an overall pathway progression for players and communication looks to be an issue.

On the plus side, it is early days, we will get better. I hope we could bring a few new players in over the season and get proper experience. Anything after that is a bonus… waiting in D1, Connaught title etc

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132018#Comment_123132018

Horan had vastly superior players - athletically, physically and skills wise. But unable to convert enough possession into scores. Inferior bench options compared to Dublin also a big factor. So not much point comparing McStay and Horan. Unlikely Horan would get much out of current Mayo team. We haven't the players.

Audioslaven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132103#Comment_123132103

Horan found these players and moulded them into his vision. They never fell into his lap … these superior players. I am not saying bring Horan back as I think we need someone younger with energy but what he did has to be admired from unearthing new players and the journey he took them on. C&H, Rochford and to a degree Mcstay lived on these players for their period in managment

eastie17

ah stop with the players aren’t there nonsense. The mgmt isn’t there.

Time after time we see it, put the right mgmt in there with the right plan and 1. Some existing players start looking like different gravy and 2. They find other players.

Plenty of great footballers in mayo

relegation will probably suit the new mgmt for next season.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132221#Comment_123132221

Who are all these great players?

PARlance

I'm not sure it needs to be one side or the other, for me anyway, the players aren't as strong as before and the management aren't either.

One thing that everyone can probably unite on is that the new rules don't suit us, especially the ability, or lack of, to get two pointers. We have a few to come back but I think it's safe enough to say that other teams will benefit more from having better kickers of long range scores.

Early days yet but it would be hard to be too optimistic about the year ahead.

Audioslaven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132317#Comment_123132317

You are missing the point from the user. He is totally correct imo. You need to get the right guy in and then look to find the players/improve the existing panel. Just look at what McGuiness did in his first year with pretty much the same panel. They look a different outfit under him. If I was to make an comparison to our best player ever "Keegan", do you think he would have been a better player under McStay or Horan, when he initially came in. Without question, Horan and the team he had helped him on his journey to becoming the player he turned into.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132490#Comment_123132490

I don't believe I'm missing any point. Of course one manager can get more out of players than another manager. It's just the raw material isn't there now to make that much of a difference regardless of who is in charge. Maybe in 5 years who knows.

When you see a forward line unable to kick 40m points with a stong wind behind them I can't see how management is to blame. Senior players are able to do that or they aren't. It's too late to learn that skill at senior level.

Donegal have far more bigger more athletic players than we have. We have Donie Buckley the same tackling coach we had previously. Obviously if the players had the physocality now he woukd have them tackling like before. McStay selected a lot of new faces on Sunday. Based on club championship they seem to be the best out there.

hugeorange

It's not just 40m they're kicking them wide from, it's 30 and 20 metres. You have it or you don't, it's not something that'll be learned at 25. A lot of it starts at underage. These skills aren't being coached at underage level. Creativity, initiative and instinct is being coached out of them, in fact, in favour of this work horse type of player that is going out of fashion completely. Donegal are a different kettle of fish because the kickers were always there.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132557#Comment_123132557

When you see a forward line unable to kick 40m points with a stong wind behind them I can't see how management is to blame.

Well it's up to management to mitigate against that weakness and find another way of getting points, the presence of the two point arc is not stopping anyone from breaking the line and getting a single point or even a goal.

Use the solo and go to catch the defence off guard, get a ball fast up the field to the three forwards you know are there, know the rules so that you stop giving away stupid frees for not knowing the rules.

Think about new ways to play the game to your advantage rather the bemoan the changes to the game that are to your disadvantage.

Barlett

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132557#Comment_123132557

Yeah but two years ago Donegal were a mess…relegated, aimless, they change manager and suddenly they're All Ireland contenders…Michael Murphy is out of retirement …I'm sure there were plenty saying Donegal didn't have the players in 2023 too. I don't believe we should be changing manager, but after three years I think we can all see Mayo are going no where and just putting your hands up and saying the players aren't there…well they might as well give up completely then.

muddle84

To try and focus on the positives!

Its only the second game of the year. Galway were clearly well ahead of us fitness wise. I'm confident that we will catch up in that regard.

I thought Davitt Neary looked like there's something about him, he could be a a good addition if he manages to hold onto his position.

As the game went on, I seen numerous times where the players were keeping each other honest with the three man back rule or whatever its called. They should not be caught out like this again.

Jordan Flynn and Paddy Durcan will make a big impact when they return to the team. What's the story with Carney? He will also be a good addition and should liven the team up a bit!

I know these could be all countered with negative points, and its frustrating that the team were obviously not as well drilled with the new rules as they should have been. But its only the 4th of February, surely it can only get better!

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132604#Comment_123132604

Im in no way moaning the changes. I'm in favour of them. But the fact is that teams who can score 2 pointers will most likely feature in the latter stages of the championship. Trying to compensate by working the ball in or scoring goals isn't gonna work. Goals, points and 2 pointers will be needed and in semi finals and finals goals will be at a premium.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132622#Comment_123132622

All I'm saying is that we can keep on this endless path of changing managers and going through phases of leantimes and high points but still never getting there ultimately due to player limitations. You could get another Horan type who could motivate and maximise the ability of the players at his disposal and still fall short yet again at AI series stage. Mayo football needs to look in the mirror and say we have had enough false dawns and its time to focus on the underage system for the next few years.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132671#Comment_123132671

Im in no way moaning the changes. I'm in favour of them. But the fact is that teams who can score 2 pointers will most likely feature in the latter stages of the championship. Trying to compensate by working the ball in or scoring goals isn't gonna work. Goals, points and 2 pointers will be needed and in semi finals and finals goals will be at a premium.

But if you can't kick two pointers you need to find another way to win, and my issue is that I don't think this management team know how to try and find another way to win.

Just like how 2024 with the exception of an improved backline was no different than 2023, they had no new ideas.

You could get another Horan type who could motivate and maximise the ability of the players at his disposal and still fall short yet again at AI series stage. 

Falling short in finals and final stages is with the players, with rare exception Mayo players save their worst for the last game of the season, not their best.

But we are a long way from that if the management can't figure how to deal with the new rules.

Audioslaven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132671#Comment_123132671

It was so evident last year that McStay's strategy was to run the ball into the D and get his inside forwards to do the scoring. We couldn't kick from distance last year because of this tactic and also lack of long ranging scoring forwards. The issue still exists this year, so nothing has changed on that front. However, the reward for long distance kicking is huge with the change of rules, so now we feel further down the pecking order. The strategy to do this rests with managment ….to use Mcstay's word "low percentage shots". He needs to wake up pretty pronto or else get use to deja vu like yesterday.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123132731#Comment_123132731

We will probably have to agree to disagree. Since Sunday most of the people I've spoken to agree that we just haven't the players. There seems to be more a consensus on that than what I've experienced previously. Tyrone Dublin and Kerry at various stages realised they had to produce a better player coming through from underage level if they wanted to seriously challenge for the AI. We will probably have a new magement next year but they will only be rearranging the deck chairs IMO.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123133017#Comment_123133017

Definitely don't have the players. Stephen Coen, Donnacha McHugh, Rory Brickenden don't have the skills or creativity required for intercounty football. A huge amount of the lads are too light and don't have the pace or drive that smaller players need in order to compete - Boland, Towey, Neary, Hession. Morahan. I fear that Diarmuid O'C's good days are behind him. From the small cameos that he had against Dublin and on Sunday, I don't think he can offer a lot. Tommy Conroy seems to be always injured.

Will the return of Aidan O'Shea, Jordan Flynn, Jack Carney, Tommy Conroy and Paddy Durcan compensate for the shortcomings that we have seen so far from Mayo? Maybe they will, but I really don't think so. As long as we can't score 2-pointers, we will not beat the top teams for the majority of the time. Conroy and Durcan are coming back from serious injuries. It will be difficult to back up to the level they have previously reached.

I was out on the pitch after the match in Castlebar. The size and bulk of the Galway players was incredible. Maher, Conroy, the full-back - all big strong men, but also very agile and can take their points. Mayo don't have those leaders.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123133418#Comment_123133418

Conor McKeon has an interesting piece in today's Indo on the big advantage Galway have with their size. Unlike other teams going short and winning safer ball they are driving kickouts into the opposition half into areas overloaded with big men (3 players 6'4"). They only need to win about half the kickouts to cause serious damage because they can get the ball to the forwards quickly. Whereas teams kicking the ball shorter may get more possessions but this is less likely to lead to scores.

OShea Flynn and Carney will help things a bit but Aidan hasn't the legs for a full game and the other 2 are not major ball winners.

charlie14

I have been a long time follower of both Donegal and Mayo football and after watching the Mayo Galway game at the weekend with this being McStay`s last year in charge, even if some here might not like the idea, imo the best place for a new manager to take over this Mayo team is in Div 2 next year.

Div 1 is dog eat dog with little or no room to experiment with players, tactics or rebuilding.Div 2 is not a walk in the park but a county like Mayo would always be among the top three expected to regain promotion while still having the luxury of experimenting against the lesser lights in that division. Mc Guinness never gave a damn about Div 1. Still doesn`t and neither do the Donegal supporters. Happy enough if they stayed up, but wouldn`t be tearing their hair out and wearing sack cloth if they went down. Mc Guinness took over a demoralised Donegal in 2011 in Div 2 and turn them into All ireland champions in 2012. Last year he took over a Donegal team in Div 2 that had lost Michael Murphy and had no full back and took them to an All Ireland semi. And who won last years all Ireland. Armagh a promoted Div 2 team that Donegal twice beat and once drew with during last years league and championship.

I can see no reason why Mayo could not use Div 2 the same way Donegal and Armagh did to sort out their problems, but the one glaring problem Mayo have that both Donegal and Armagh did not have is players who can score from distance. An ability that is more important than ever now with these new rules. How in heavens name is that the case in a football mad county like Mayo. Are clubs not coaching players in the skill, or is it the case that recent management teams are not selecting players who can. Langan and Thompson, two Donegal players with that in their lockers were often out of favour with Donegal management when Rochfort was involved so could that be part of the reason ?

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123137143#Comment_123137143

My own suspicion is that it is coaching and culture from an early age, coupled with a fear of missing. I dont believe there is much structured shooting practice within the culture of Mayo football. Its an afterthought. And if you are quality athlete at 12 or 13 you will be played at half back or midfield where your athleticism allows you to dominate the game but you are not developing the skills to be a forward. You will notice mayo always have an abundance of players who are adept at shooting when coming through from midfield or the back, but struggle with back to goal or with defences set. Hell, we even tried to turn Andy Moran into a wing back.

charlie14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123141257#Comment_123141257

It`s a culture and coaching that needs to change as teams must always keep three defenders in their own half and three players in the opposition half. These new rules are designed to see more scores from forwards. If forwards cannot win and score off balls played into them when their backs are to goal then they become passengers. Especially come championship when the pitches have dried up where those are going to be a lot of the balls played into forwards by opposing teams.

With how the pace of the game has changed with these new rules, depending on backs and midfielders to come forward to score will leave them out on their feet well before the long whistle blows.

Audioslaven

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123141695#Comment_123141695

Under our current managment, I think this was a no no to take shots from distance and we ran most balls to the inside forward line for tap overs - this was the crack last year. It is interesting that you mention Rochford's time in Donegal as well and the players who had this ability to do so been sidelined.

So like the other poster mentioned, we have a cultural issue with it, which leads us to having no players to do this and to top it off…. a managment team who were against taking shots from distance.

Anyway, they have to change now.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123141257#Comment_123141257

This is what I've been saying. With a greater emphasis on kicking technique at underage level players like AOS and Jack Carney would be getting plenty of scores. Keith Higgins was a missed opportunity to develop a fast play making wing forward. We seem to have put more emphasis on possession and defending. The amount of possession our big men could guarantee us meant we were often close to landing the big one..89, 96, 2010s team. In a way the athleticism and power of our past players led to complacency in terms of the need to develop other skills. But now that we are being out muscled and out fielded around the field our shooting limitations are glaringly exposed. We will improve for the championship but we have no hope of going deep into the championship without 2 pointers.

Island Voter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123112416#Comment_123112416

None of the new ones. The midfield mark was a good previous change i am happy to see kept. Did the Jim Gavin committee ever consider that doing nothing was an option?

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123144662#Comment_123144662

Had to do something about the blanket defenses. I found it tactically interesting for a while. But then it just grew tedious. All intercounty matches turned into a cagey slow game for 60 mins and then 10 mins of a bit of excitement if we were lucky to get that in a close match.

TsuDhoNimh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123144662#Comment_123144662

Pre FRC? Yeah.

It was attempted for around 10 years but the dwindling crowds, dwindling revenues & constant negativity in all coverage of the sport lamenting the (lack of) action on display eventually led to the decision that experiment wasn't really working as well as they'd hoped.

A quick look at the two Sigerson Semi-Finals this week providing a stark reminder of why the changes were so necessary and, while I'd be the first to admit they've hit some nasty hurdles along the way (both the Rules Advisory Committee on multiple levels & the FRC members in their faulty explanations of rules) and plenty of room for tweaks/changes/improvements when more data & feedback is gathered, we're hopefully moving in the right direction.

Westernview

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123144662#Comment_123144662

Doing nothing was certainly not an option unless you are happy with dwindling crowds and ultra conservative football rewarding sterile systems over individual skill. Galways Paul Conroy has already said there's no going back and that the new game is much more enjoyable to play.

hugeorange

There was always going to be teething problems, it was never going to be perfect straight away, things always take time to settle and for adjustments to be made, but it's going in the right direction. Up to Mayo to adjust and maybe it'll be the kick in the hole underage structures need.

MattressRick

Galway man here who was in Castlebar. I think Mayo are a different team if Durcan, Tommy Conroy, O'Shea are in there.

I've a Connacht Final in Castlebar in the back of my mind for a long time. Galway will have to beat a very confident and dangerous Roscommon team, but if they do then I think a final in Castlebar will be very 50 50. The likes of last Sunday will be long forgotten.

Galway's win last Sunday could be a hindrance to Galway's mindset more than anything.

Looking forward to both teams having fully fit squads and hopefully a great day out!

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123133418#Comment_123133418

McHugh is a very useful player to have in the squad, even with the new rules. Very athletic and likes to get on the end of moves and score. Agreed on the other two defenders. I don't think you have seen enough of Neary or Morahan or you wouldn't make that comment - both are pacy and tough. Barring injury, Morahan will play for Mayo for many years.

While I am nearly certain Mayo won't win the All Ireland and that McStay and his management team will be gone before July, I think people are way over-reacting to the Galway game. Come the Connacht final, it will be a 50/50 game assuming Mayo have their injured/rested players back.

Concerns I do have, Ryan O'D's regression is big and been going on since early 2023. Diarmuid and Tommy C are constantly injured. But then again, so is Damien Comer! Brickenden is absolutely not county standard and having himself and Coen in the same back line is crazy. Also, Mayo are very weak on midfielders who can field a kick-out. Bob Touhy has been a big disappointment in this regard.

Plusses are, Nearly looks like he as no fear and will be a big addition to the squad - we have lacked pace at wing-forward since Kevin Mc retired. Morahan is another big squad addition, can cover corner and wing back. Towey and Boland should flourish in these new rules. Jordan Flynn will also do really well in the new rules. Mayo have a much better goalie than Galway for these new rules.

One comment on the talent coming through. There is some great talent in Mayo at underage. Darragh Beirne, Niall Hurley, Rio Mortimer, Kobe McDonald (if the Aussie's don't get him), John McMonagle, Finbar McLaughlin, to name but a few.