Mayo GAA Discussion

MayoAreMagic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120773407#Comment_120773407

Not sure he has the power to mach up with ocallaghan just yet. Might suit mannion better. It will be interesting to see how they go about it.

PressRun

McBrien on Con imo.

MfMan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120773358#Comment_120773358

Have a look at it from this angle and see what do you think happened? Whether Kelly should have been there or not is entirely irrelevant.

https://www.galwaybeo.ie/sport/gaa/gaa-video-shows-another-angle-8554049

tetracycline

I watched the entire incident with Kelly from the stands. When Hession came on Kelly started continuously throwing shoulders and hitting him with shoulder/elbows, and he just kept going and going at him to intimidate him, more than what you usually see some players do. Ryan came over gave him a shoulder and a kick/stamp to the ankle. As a man, Kelly got absolutely what he deserved. Obviously kicking shouldn't be allowed in the game and I would have no issues if Ryan was punished, but I see nothing morally wrong with what Ryan did. Kelly shouldn't be trying to intimidate and bully other players. Most players don't do what Kelly was up to, and those that do don't usually keep on going at the other player like Kelly was

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120776426#Comment_120776426

well MF man i think its fair to say ye got the moral victory. Hope ye go out an celebrate it. unfortunately the mayo players are in no position for celebrating as they are out again this Sunday, but fair play to galway, they can put their feet up now and enjoy themselves. we have another few days to enjoy, it might be over this weekend..

but we've dealt galway the biggest blessing they could have ever got. PJ should leave of his own volition now, and ye can actually develop talent. I would admit that there is definitely more to the galway team than they show, but it wont be PJ that brings it out.

PARlance

Hopefully Kelly makes a full and speedy recovery. He's lucky he still has the use of both legs. Thoughts and prayers.

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120771819#Comment_120771819

You're actually wrong about his football skills - they are at least solid. He can solo the ball running at pace, his hand-passing off either side is solid, he's a decent kicker of the ball but obviously decides to run it more often. It's decision-making he needs to tidy up. Overall, it's obvious as day why he plays so much, he also scores quite regularly as well as having an ability to make turn-overs I would say that are second only to AOS. He has the courage of his convictions to take on players and go for scores.

On the opposite side you have players like Coen and Carney who don't make many mistakes but actually contribute so little to the team.

Blackjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777634#Comment_120777634

I’d be a fan of Eoghan and you’re right in the majority of what you say about him but the Coen and Carney thing is perhaps a little too far.

Coen is very reliable and is very strong on a number of aspects of the game. He’s very strong, a good man marker, a great fielder and a very good reader of the game. He’s not the fastest and isn’t a prolific scorer but that’s not his job. Carney perhaps has drifted out of recent games probably as teams have become more familiar with his play and how to counteract but I’d have both Coen and Carney as automatic starters in the half back and half forwards for nearly every game.

Eoghan is one I don’t think is an automatic starting player but if not a starter then certainly I’d be bringing him on so he’s always on the match day first 21 for me. He’s definitely built for Croke Park and he’s lightning quick. He’s much maligned but as always it’s the wrong decision he makes in a game that people will remember him for. E.g. going for the point at the end of the game vs Armagh in the league, and getting dispossessed near the end vs Galway on Sunday. Personally I felt he was fouled for that and also that Hurson really had it in for him on the day but I’ll admit to potentially being swayed by bias too.

cute geoge

I taught Eoghan had a nightmare of a game last sunday ,he was turned over at least twice that led to galway scores ,he gave away soft frees .He overcarried the ball for his goal but only for him clearing off the line he repaid the faith the selectors had in keeping him on .Don't think he is good enough to start

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777866#Comment_120777866

That's bias or just mis-remembering. He was turned over once, when many of his team-mates were hiding. You didn't see him turning over Galway towards the end of the game for a crucial score? Or his other turnovers?

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777773#Comment_120777773

Ah come one, Coen is very lucky to start. He's so slow and it's not like he's such a good man-maker that we can say, "oh great - he'll do a good job on Con next weekend". His fielding is not that good or he would start midfield regularly and Mayo wouldn't have such trouble with catching clean ball - in fairness to Coen he can't make himself 3 inches taller. But did you see his lack of footwork for the kick-out Reape sent him in the first half? He drops the ball and then pulls down Conroy after - I think Walsh scored the subsequent free. I think managers keep picking him out of an abundance of safety more than anything else.

Carney just doesn't impose himself on games. Maybe this will come with experience but I've seen nearly all Mayo games since he broke through and despite natural talent he doesn't affect the game much, if at all. Again, he is lucky that we don't have many options at half-forward. I won't start a Fergal Boland debate here!

People just remember what they want to remember. Look at the games more closely and you will see all the positive turnovers Eoghan has, his involvement in other players' scores. Look at his scoring rate (it's high relative to the few games he has played). Yes, he needs to be more clever in his tackling and a bit more thoughtful on front of goal but he can be the difference in Mayo beating a team like Dublin - it's highly unlikely Coen or Carney will be that difference. I think McStay and Rochford see him as an automatic starter, once fit, and especially in Croke Park.

MacDanger

TBF, this is Carney's first season as a starter so I think he deserves some leeway. He's probably under pressure now for a starting spot

Personally, I'd have Coen as a starter all day, no questions - not all of our backs can be all-out attack. I'd have him playing at 6. Considering he's such a bad shooter, he often pops up with an important score in big games. His fumble for that kickout was very poor, I was roaring at him at the time.

I think McLaughlin is competing with Durcan/Hession/McHugh for those "attacking" wing backs spots and that's why I don't think he starts when everyone is fit.

Maybe the reason McLaughlin gets a hard time is because some of his mistakes are so glaring e.g. the high solo early in the 2nd half (although he held on to it), the goal chance and the free in the corner where he'd have won the ball if he hadn't put his hand on the forward's back - these are all simple mistakes that should be easily corrected. As I mentioned previously, a little extra 1-1 coaching and he could be a brilliant player rather than just good

Blackjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777964#Comment_120777964

I doubt we’ll ever agree on Coen going by what you’ve written but given he’s captained Minor, Under 21 and Sigerson teams to all Ireland success (and is the only player to have done so as Captain for all 3 competitions) clearly got some thing a lot of people won’t see or credit him for.

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778096#Comment_120778096

This stat keeps being mentioned - obviously it's true and also managers must see something in him. But very few can actually point out his positive attributes and when they do it's, "solid", "reads the game well", "doesn't make mistakes", "decent man maker". That's not exactly inspiring.

Blackjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778143#Comment_120778143

maybe if he was more inspiring. Got it.

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778259#Comment_120778259

Like I said, maybe if want he contributed was more tangible. Score, assists, great man-marking, turnovers - as opposed to " captained the team".

Blackjack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778292#Comment_120778292

He’s not a prolific scorer and because he stays back to mind the house he won’t have that many assists either but he does the man marking and the turnovers. Not sure why that gets overlooked.

MayoAreMagic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120776426#Comment_120776426

No stamp, no raking of cogs, the contact was very light. A warning shot and a reminder that if he wants to act the tough guy, people can give it back to him too. Anyone who has an issue with this would really want to recognise that kelly isnt a golden calf. A good dose of his own sh*thousery right back at him was exactly what he asked for.

MayoAreMagic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777964#Comment_120777964

Sorry, but you are miles off here.

Mclaughlin is probably the luckiest of the three. He is rash in the tackle and gets wrong side often. He is very inconsistent in front of goal yet persists with not offloading to the shooters. He is yet to learn to play to his strengths and is a very raw footballer in general. He has good traits also but he is the most likely of the three to make a daft decision. He will learn but it will take time.

Coen is a team man and very dedicated to the role. He is composed and safe in possession and fills in gaps at the back with the relish that most go up shooting at the posts with. He is a good aggressive tackler, is very mobile and makes good decisions. He is your didi hamann type player and anyone who has had a guy like that in the team knows he makes you an awful lot harder to break down. He might not excite like a mclaughlin can, but he wont cost you a fraction of the scores mclaughlin will either. He actually had a good game for the most part against galway, not sure why people are on his case.

Carney is also very composed, hugely mobile, can score, picks good passes, keeps posession well and is a great option in the air. He is well placed to hurt dublin next day out. He was under pressure against galway because they are massive in the air in that area and were killing us on the breaks - not really his fault to be fair.

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778358#Comment_120778358

But he doesn't really do the man marking. Before it was Keegan and Mullin. Next week it will be Durcan or Callinan because they have the pace over a short distance to keep up with the best forwards. John Daly is a good example of what a sitting half back should be. Also doesn't score much but is a superb kick passer that can open up defenses.

RedDevil55

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778292#Comment_120778292

As I pointed out last week, Coen's scoring record is pretty decent for a back. Not Paddy Durcan standard but he pops up with scores, especially in a lot of the big championship games. Last weekend was another example.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120777964#Comment_120777964

Coen has been one of the first names on the team sheet over three management teams now,his entire career.

He's won minor,U21 and Sigerson......as captain of all of them.

I'm confident all those men know more about football than you.

If you can't see his worth then a stranger on an internet forum isn't going to educate you.

Also for a lad that can't score he's popped up with big points in big games the last couple of years.

I will agree mf is not his position but he has only played there when we were stuck much like Donie Vaughan before him.

Padkir

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778433#Comment_120778433

I think you're spot on with the above - it was a statement that neither he nor his teammate were going to be bullied on his watch.

At one stage when one of the Galway backs was coming out from the back in the 2nd half, Ryan fouled him and made sure the defender felt the hits as part of the foul. I had no problem with him doing that, because he gets it back in spades when the roles are reversed. Sometimes you just take a foul to make a point, and it's great to have someone who's able to look after themselves on the pitch.

I won't be crying when the opposition does the same back (as long as it's not over the top) - it's just part of the game.

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778494#Comment_120778494

He's not that rash in the tackle but I agree he can improve - still fouling outside the scoring zone can be very useful - just look at Kevin McLoughlin, he has made a career out of it. Eoghan needs to learn how to do it as slyly as Kevin does. Of course his shooting is inconsistent, he's a wing back (Paddy Durcan is inconsistent too), but like I said he has the courage to both get himself in the position and then actually shoot. You'll miss some but he also scores lots. Didn't he carry the ball forward and offload this weekend just gone in the build-up to the crucial McBrien goal?

They're all "team men and dedicated to the role" - again intangibles. Composed and safe but doesn't take any risks which is what you have to do to win the match. Yes, he is a good aggressive tackler. He did so little v Galway and we have players on the bench like Hession who have the courage to take the ball off the keeper under pressure and then break out of defense with pace - helped us win the match. I am on his case to show how people can be so harsh on the player who tries to make something happen while rarely do the same to the guy he takes the "safe" option.

Carney can do all those things you mention but he won zero high balls in the Galway game and was largely anonymous - following on from a similar display against Cork. My opinion is he is lucky he is competing in a weak line (half forward) and not an ultra competitive one (full-forward).

MayoAreMagic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778581#Comment_120778581

What is intangible about it? He spots holes and free men and covers them before they become a problem. He organises defensively, ie recognising mismatches with opponents and fixing them - anyone who seen his role in handling peter cooke at the weekend will have seen this in action.

He is proactive when protecting his fullback line and does so intelligently. You talk about turnovers, but you dont get that his positioning has probably led to that turnover by squeezing the gap the ball can be played into. These things are not intangibles, they are just things that some people cant see - there is a difference.

Marking-wise, he matches up with a very wide range of opponents, which again is a hugely useful tool to have. But again, some people arent really aware of the importance of stuff like that. Im not trying to be smart, it is just a reality. Those types of players never get much credit from the masses but they are a huge part of the efficiency of the team, hence why so many managers pick him, or why jose mourinho and alex ferguson were vying it out for the likes of a jon obi mikel.

Carney was simply drowned out against those two teams - both of whom are huge around the middle, pack his area with bodies and pack the back also. Diarmuid oconnor was poor in those specific areas also in the galway game truth be told. Conroy maher and cooke are serious ball winners while tierney and comer are massive also. It was a big ask for anyone.

But looking at his skillset, he is a guy that could hurt Cluxton's kickouts, as he tends to go for individuals on the run. Carney has great mobility and could definitely steal a few. Who would you play instead of him out of interest?

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778522#Comment_120778522

Again, I don't profess to know more the than Horan, Rochford, or McStay. His worth is over-stated, in my humble opinion - I think that's what internet forums are for and they'd be pretty boring if we just said nothing.

Coen scored a point in 2 finals (2020 and 2021, one was a mark) plus a point against Kerry last year in the QF. He has scored 14 points in 44 championship appearances since 2016. McLaughlin has 1 goal and 7 points scored in 16 championship appearances since 2020 - plus man of the match in a Covid Connacht final of 2020.

MayoAreMagic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778718#Comment_120778718

Im not interested in my defender scoring a point when he is letting in 2 scoring chances at the other end to do it, that would be my own personal view of it. What is the net result there? -0.01? It is a team game at the end of the day. We have good scoring forwards these days, the defenders should be giving them the ball to shoot. Id be more interested in their free count, their turnover count and their attitude towards the protection of their own goals

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778718#Comment_120778718

If you're putting Coen in a team to score points you ain't that smart.

The fact that he does score the odd point in big games is a bonus.

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778784#Comment_120778784

But McLaughlin does both, his athleticism allows for it. Last week he didn't score but got forward so many times to help his forwards (team game after all) but also made a number of turnovers. Who was he marking - Heaney? who didn't score. As I said, he can tidy up on his tackling but being aggressive is important - Chris Barrett was like this at the beginning.

GBXI

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778798#Comment_120778798

This is my point, posters have this view of Coen that we all have to accept how limited he is from an attacking perspective (and let's not forget defensive too given you can't put him on someone really fast) and then all criticism should be tempered, but McLaughlin is not being judged by the same standards. McLaughlin does massive defensive work too, covering, hassling, and making turnovers.