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A few covid things I wanna clear up

  • 15-07-2021 8:45pm
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭

    I don’t understand something about covid. Basically 3 things

    1) if you’re vaccinated, they say your chances of being seriously ill with covid are very little but Can you still suffer long term covid?

    2) how will this all end if people can still spread it when they’re vaccinated?

    3) lots of people get annoyed at anti vaccination people saying they’re selfish etc but how will someone who’s not vaccinated affect anyone else? Surely those vaccinated will be protected from their own vaccine so why are people against people refusing to be vaccinated

    thanks for clarifying these for me



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,957 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.

    Vaccinated people are still getting infected, and not in small numbers going by the UK stats. Surely this is what will create mutations to evade the vaccine? Can anyone explain why this isn't the case?

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash

    I don’t want to go down a rabbit hole but I would imagine that the chances of a mutation grow in line with the number people getting vaccinated. If the virus can circulate freely amongst a small but significant cohort of people, it will have no need to mutate! The intent of the virus is to survive!

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick

    I [i]think[/i] the idea is that if enough people are vaccinated and the vaccine is effective against [i]serious[/i] illness among patients, even if not preventing infection, pressure on the health system will be low enough that we'll be able to live with it circulating in the relatively lower levels and certainly causing fewer hospitalisations.

    What's really worrying me this week is that apparently we had one patient in the ICU and on a ventilator despite being [i]fully[/i] vaccinated. The report didn't mention which vaccine this person received but that's an incredibly worrying development IMO.

  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭TP_CM

    The virus is massively weakened by a person who has had the vaccine. They might still be contagious but not to the same extent. For example they might not be coughing or spluttering as much as a non-vaccinated person. This makes it harder for the virus to move around and mix with other mutations. If you think of the virus as a tiny army which is breeding and growing and which is up against another army of anti bodies, it might help make more sense. If the anti bodies can wipe out 90% of it then only 10% is left to get out there and mutate.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,578 ✭✭✭charlietheminxx

    For one, people on immunosuppressants don’t develop enough antibodies from the vaccine to be properly protected. What we need is herd immunity, once we have the right ratio of vaccinated people it’ll stop circulating except for smaller outbreaks. The more it circulates, the more variants we end up with and it seems the virus is bettering itself each time.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭nomdeboardie

    1) I've wondered this myself. Would imagine it's less likely, but I haven't seen mention of data on this yet; time will tell.

    2) It was hoped, and I think there is some data, that those infected after vaccination spread it less. Plus, as hatrickpatrick says, with less virus replicating overall, it's hoped that new variants will pop up less often.

    3) Some vaccinated people will still get infected, and while their ilness should be less severe, some will be more susceptible to a bad outcome than average, either because their immune systems may not have mounted a good response, or they have other reasons why the virus affects them more. In addition, some people may have been advised not to take the vaccine because they have a much higher risk of side effects than average.

    ETA: Only the first reply was visible to me when I wrote the above

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭Nozebleed

    "Additionally, if not vaccinated it dramatically increases the possibility of mutations and creates a new variant that will evade vaccines in future. That in addition to more people getting covid if not vaccinated which further increases the possibility of mutation"

    This quote from the above post is complete nonsense. shameful post

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭nomdeboardie

    It probably indeed is the case that the variants which the vaccines are less effective against may form a higher progressively proportion of the viral population. However, if the vaccine is at least partialy effective against them, as seems to be the case so far, they are still better than nothing. If variants arise that completely evade the current vaccines, I'd imagine we should still be no worse off, as, on average, they probably won't be more severe. These could then be targeted with tweaked vaccines, and I assume there's a good chance this virus would eventually run out of variations that would 'work'. I'd imagine the vaccine versions could be mixed together to target several variants together, (though I'd think it safer not to do that with DNA or RNA-containing vaccines, to reduce the chance of recombinant sequences popping up and maybe being incorporated into co-'infecting' virus etc)

    Post edited by nomdeboardie on

  • Registered Users Posts: 22 SaltyJohn

    This may help explain things.

    Also worth pointing out that vaccines are reducing transmission. Not fully but quite effectively at a minimum. But we need to be careful until we see how this plays out in the real world (which takes time).

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty

    Can I add to the OP question?Been reading lately that the Delta variant presents similar to a common cold.Is that not a good thing -is that not what we want basically?If and when we are all vaccinated (or as many as needed for herd immunity) and IF it is spreading as a similar to a common cold essentially, then is that not the point where we have to live with it?

  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    You have been reading that it has been presenting with initial symptoms more like the regular common cold, not that it is less serious overall.

    All of the symptoms associated with Covid also present to some extent with colds. The relative frequency of the runny nose / sore throat type symptoms has increased with the Delta variant and the shortness of breath etc decreased. But all of those symptoms always occurred to some degree in covid. Looking at what happened in India earlier on this year does not suggest Delta is any weaker. Its more likely down to the fact that delta is now infecting mostly the young and previously vaccinated so on average the symptoms are milder, as there are relatively few of the older unvaccinated in the populations being detected

  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Responder XY

    In a way - that's herd immunity starting to kick in. I'm sure if the coronavirus strain that currently causes common cold had never existed, but just appeared suddenly in the way Covid-19 did, it would be just as impactful as Covid-19 was.

    The reason common cold doesn't do much harm is that most of us get it very young, where it can't really harm us and we build up a strong level of immunity so that even though we get it repeatedly during our life, our bodies know how to deal with it,

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭Former Former Former

    No - this is a really common misconception.

    The Delta variant is NOT any less severe than previous variants and in fact the evidence is the opposite.

    The difference is that the SYMPTOMS of MILD disease are more like a cold than the previous variants which resemebled flu. It's like saying the Wuhan virus caused a loss of taste and smell - it did, but it also killed a lot of people. The Delta variant is exactly the same; you may get no symptoms, you may get mild cold-like symptoms, or you may get a really severe respiratory infection that puts you in hospital.

    It is absolutely not an indication that humans have adapted to the virus. We are not remotely near herd immunity in unvaccinated settings.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,183 ✭✭✭TomSweeney

    Very worrying and concerning indeed.

    The next 2 weeks are crucial.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy

    This is entirely true, the more chances a virus has to replicate the more chances there are for a mutation to develop. The larger the unvaccinated population and the more it spreads, the higher the likelihood of a new dangerous variant

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,338 ✭✭✭Bit cynical

    Though it has also to be said that a more lethal variant may not be the fittest and so may end up being selected out if sufferers are too debilitated to pass it on.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭Former Former Former

    That's the problem with Covid.

    People may be infectious for days before they become symptomatic so the old theory about the less deadly variant becoming dominant does not hold.

    The more virulent variants will dominate. It will be sheer luck if they are more or less severe.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭nomdeboardie

    Re Q1 of the OP: "... the evidence does not support that fully vaccinated people who develop a "breakthrough infection" are at risk for long COVID illness" according to the epidemiologist interviewed in

    (page 2) (though I don't know what the data is)

    Post edited by nomdeboardie on

  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭grofus2

    I'm looking at this from another angle.

    Why, have Dr's that have developed effective protocols using Ivernectin, hydroxychloroquin etc been warned of being struck off if they continued.

    These medicines are safe, tried and tested for decades and have shown benefits for Covid patients.

    Instead its Vaccine, Vaccine, vaccine. For a disease that has a mortality rate of between 0.003% for kids to 0.5% for the extremely frail. Most people's

    risk of death is less than 0.2%. So, I personally have yet to see any real evidence of a pandemic, dont agree the government figures show we are in an emergency, though perhaps initially fora few months it could be argued that we were.

    The media have whipped up such fear around a virus that is no more deadly than a virulent flu strain in order to get people desperate enough to get a vaccine they don't need. As has already been pointed out, variant strains occur because a virus is trying to survive the vaccines being thrown at it.

    These vaccines have been approved on emergency licence only. That's it. How on earth can a child with a mortality rate of 0,003% be an emergency risk. Those figures simply do not support the government claims and they are breaking the law in administering them to kids.

    I urge folk to research Dr Robert Malone, the inventor of mRNA delivery technology, who is seriously concerned about the roll out of these "gene therapy" vaccines.

    I believe these vaccines are just one facet of an overall agenda, just my conclusion from everything I've read. in my opinion it ties in nicely with the WEF (World Economic Forum) and their Great Reset. Go onto the webpage and see for yourself.

    I know this has gone off topic but its a case of joining the dots to see the full picture.

  • Registered Users Posts: 118 ✭✭grofus2

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy

    There's a lot of inaccuracies here. I'll answer some of them. To start with Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquin have mixed results to date. They are far from cures. Hydroxychloroquin is a great example of something that early on in the pandemic showed [i]some[/i] promise and was immediately jumped on by some sections of the internet, but has since not really delivered on the promise and has been linked with serious heart rhythm problems and other issues like blood and lymph system disorders. Ivermectin, now has some promise, and there is studies ongoing, but antiparisitics arent without their downsides and the data isnt in yet. I dont get why people want to jump on drugs with really small amounts of mixed data while ignoring lots of high quality vaccine data.

    Second, death is only one thing we are worried about with Covid. A concern that's nearly as big is the hospitalisation and ICU admission rates which are high enough to swamp most health systems if left unchecked. This means people end up dying from all sorts of issues as hospitals arent able to treat all the other issues they deal with day to day. The death rate from covid itself also rises as ICU and hospitals go beyond capacity. That's before we begin to talk about Long Covid.

    Finally, variants dont occur because vaccines are being thrown at it. For example the Delta variant was found in India last October. It's a product of natural mutations through millions of reproduction cycles.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭francogarbanzo

    If you’re interested in the position of possibly the worlds most credible person on the subject: