Speedmaster or IWC

Watch_Fan

Hi all, new to boards and also relatively new to the watch game. Have been looking to mark an occasion for a while and have narrowed my choice down to two watches. IWC 377717 the Speedmaster ending in 002. I probably like the speedy more. However, I was looking at the 2020 one originally but now gone in weirs and keanes. 2021 is over 20% more expensive. I know there is a new bracelet and movement, do you guys think that justifies the hike in the price?

Cyclingtourist

Yes it justifies the hike in price. Get the speedy.

893bet

Watch_Fan wrote: »

Hi all, new to boards and also relatively new to the watch game. Have been looking to mark an occasion for a while and have narrowed my choice down to two watches. IWC 377717 the Speedmaster ending in 002. I probably like the speedy more. However, I was looking at the 2020 one originally but now gone in weirs and keanes. 2021 is over 20% more expensive. I know there is a new bracelet and movement, do you guys think that justifies the hike in the price?

No not in slightest does it justify it. Speedmaster must have doubled in price in the last 5 years or so with so many price rises. Omega have decided to try and compete with Rolex and are ramming prices up.

Tudor are going to decimate omega they way it’s currently going.

Get a second hand one. Shouldn’t cost more than 3500 for a full set. Easy move along (and people normally do).

banie01

I agree with 893 on this.
The new speedie is an exercise in price gouging, driven by the market rather than by value propositions.

Now I'll caveat that by saying I've not owned one, new or old
But if I was in the market, I'd be buying 2nd hand rather than new.
I do have an IWC, a 3878 that was a 2nd hand purchase and I love it.
The Speedy is a classic that you will be able to move on should you ever choose to.
That said, try and find somewhere you can try on what you are after before you buy.
So many times people buy what they think they like untried, then find they don't gel with it.

If you are in Dublin trying the IWC shouldn't be a problem, if you are down the country they can be harder to find in stock.

Good luck and enjoy whichever you buy.

Fitz II

I currently have the LPP IWC and had the Speedmaster. I didnt think the Speedmaster was worth keeping when it owed me €2600 they are a bit dull. The IWC is a really nice watch but very big. If you are interested I would be made part with mine for a significant discount from retail.

micks_address

i would just add i think you'll be paying close to 4k for a speedy pro hesalite with box and cards these days... secondhand..

Cyclingtourist

The OP expressed a preference for the Speedy over the IWC and seem to indicate that he was thinking of buying from an Irish AD, this is what framed my answer suggesting that he should go with the speedy. I do think the price increase is justified by the improved movement and bracelet whether you think the watch is worth what they're asking is another matter and some people decide a watches worth based on what they are likely to get for it in a years time if they go to sell it. I tend more to asses 'worth' comparing to the cost of a similar watch in the same market, AD, grey or pre-owned.

They had a pre-2021 sapphire sandwich in Keanes Cork three weeks ago asking €k5.9 (think it was €k7.2 for the 2021 equivalent), if that's now gone I'm sure another one could be bought somewhere else online for around the same price.

micks_address

For some reason the saphire on the speedy doesn’t do it for me. The reflections on the hesalite are cool

Watch_Fan

Thanks for all the replies. Always learning. I think I will go wirh the 2021 Speedy. Definitely a value in the new movement, bracelet etc but it is quite a jump. Getting a bit if a discount from AD so makes it that bit better. I did like the 2020 also but gone now from both ADs. Did find the 2020 bracelet a bit more 'industrial' (no offence to anyone with one).

First luxury watch so wanted to buy new this time but enjoying this new hobby.

893bet

A discount on the new version? How much?

Not heard too much about that. Forum talk seems to be discounts on the SM had dried up. Best not say where as you might mess it up for yourself.

Fitz II

Just to throw a spanner in the work, you are now mostly in Airking and Milgauss money, and having owned every watch mentioned on here so far, A Rolex as a first luxury watch knocks the lard out of Omega and IWC.

micks_address

Fitz II wrote: »

Just to throw a spanner in the work, you are now mostly in Airking and Milgauss money, and having owned every watch mentioned on here so far, A Rolex as a first luxury watch knocks the lard out of Omega and IWC.

From a resale value POV can’t argue with that

Fitz II

micks_address wrote: »

From a resale value POV can’t argue with that

Forget that, they are more robust, better movements, automatic waterproof and better bracelets. After that resale value and better brand. Harder to get and more in demand. Probably squeek out a datejust for that budget too....which is good as the new speedy has a jubilee vibe.

unkel

€6k for the previous model speedmaster and €7k for the current one? Insane. Agree with Fitz II there, that's entry level Rolex money. A lot more watch for your money.

I like the Omegas, have owned a speedmaster and two seamasters, but for me they are more in the mid range / entry level luxury watch market. A significant step below Rolex on all fronts that count

Cyclingtourist

ROLEX!!!!! :rolleyes:

scwazrh

unkel wrote: »

I like the Omegas, have owned a speedmaster and two seamasters, but for me they are more in the mid range / entry level luxury watch market. A significant step below Rolex on all fronts that count

I have a speedmaster and would put it at entry level luxury as well . I bought a seamaster 300m diver today so hoping the quality of it is a bit higher than the speedie .

Wibbs

Just speaking as a vintage type, what I notice about the Speedy(well the last iteration, haven't seen the latest in the flesh) is that it's one of the most "vintage" feeling of modern new watches. That includes vintage style reissues by outfits like Longines that don't feel anything like their originals. The trend of mainstream watches over the last say twenty years has been to increase heft for want of a better word, at first by ramping up the sizes and more latterly by increasing the weight. Something like the Submariner has gone up in both. On the other hand the Speedy(at least the "generic" one) is pretty much identical to a early 70's one(the head anyway, as bracelets across the board were generally more flimsy back then). The Seamaster is much more of a "modern" watch in feel and fit and finish. The dials are streets ahead of Rolex for example, though the bracelets are lacking by comparison. Rolex have one of the best bracelets out there. They've really upped their game there as not so long ago they were one of the worst at the pricepoint.

The other thing with the Speedy, though it's nearly as in play with Rolex, is that they're very much "flipper" watches. Bought and held onto for a time and then sold on. If buying used then you won't lose much, though again the Rolex will keep or even increase its value in the current market which is also a flippers market in many ways. There are more people wearing them as investments and the need to keep the "new" in circulation in their lineups can also be in play too.

Bluefoam

Go IWC. I wear an Aquatimer and love it...

If you want to buy a watch that you can talk about its value or how it's an investment... Just buy whatever Rolex you can get your hands on.

If you want a watch that you enjoy wearing and don't care about the value, buy a watch that you like...

BTW, if you need to worry about the future value of a watch, then you can't afford it... Buy something in your price range

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117721529#Comment_117721529

It’s frustrating that you can edit the post you are quoting!

To your last point re if you worry about the value of the watch you are buying you can’t afford it. That’s rubbish. Sure. If you are buying a single forever watch then yeah, value is unimportant, pick your forever watch and enjoy it.

But most forum users like here all have more than one watch. And like to change regularly. Residual value is an important aspect for most people whose resources are limited.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722050#Comment_117722050

You need to pay attention to what I actually said...

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722715#Comment_117722715

I have reread you post carefully and would say the following.

"Go IWC. I wear an Aquatimer and love it..." - Great thats a nice enough watch, but the volunteering of that information kinda tells its own story. Its an esoteric piece.

"If you want to buy a watch that you can talk about its value or how it's an investment... Just buy whatever Rolex you can get your hands on." - there are a lot of Rolex that dont hold value, there are a lot of models in other brands that are better value retainers. Also there is the question of buying second hand so some other sucker took the depreciation. A bit passive aggressive there and a bit naïve.

"If you want a watch that you enjoy wearing and don't care about the value, buy a watch that you like..." - I enjoying wearing all my watches but also care about the value? Its great to buy what you like, but I dont know of many people that buy watches they dont like to be honest, so I never really know what this is supposed to mean except as an excuse to buy easy to get watches and avoid discussion of their downsides. And look if it bring more people into the hobby thats great. But nothing puts people off watches than buying say a new Seamaster at retail and finding out a year laters if worth half. I have been able to experiance so many watches without any financial penalty thus far by being a bit careful, hedging bets and trading up.

As 893bet says it depends on weather you are a "one and done" watch person or have a collection of watches. If you are one and done having a more classic watch, a more desirable watch is the way to go (remember strong residual values is a indicator of how desirable the watch is on the market) and you can use this as a proxy to judge if the watch you like is one people are happy with in the long term. The assumption that your own taste at that point in time is all you need to be happy is again a bit naive. I never sold a watch I didn't at one point like. Nor do I only sell watches I dislike now. Its a journey.

"BTW, if you need to worry about the future value of a watch, then you can't afford it... Buy something in your price range"

Eh thats not really true, and you are saying people worry? No they dont...its a consideration not a worry. If you dont consider it as part of your purchase thinking you are a fool. If you are buying stuff nobody wants anyway you have to dig deep into the "buy what you like" smooth part of your brain to justify the spend.

I could make an equally facetious statement of "if you dont worry about future value you need to man up and buy a more expensive watch". A famous internet youtuber once said about buying a watch "its got to hurt" and you will value more something that you worked hard for, and when you have worked hard for something you care about its worth. The point of pain if different for different people.

I dont care on a day to day basis about the value of my home (or car), I dont worry about it, but it is a consideration as I am not short-sighted enough to think I would never possibly move, or need to liquidate in an emergency or consider the inheritance of the asset.

I think to avoid all the snarky comments and assumptions about other people's motives and finances we should replace the term "residual/resale value" with "future desirability". Future desirability is something I think everyone can agree is a good thing to have, something of value, and the lack of it is something to ponder carefully.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117722897#Comment_117722897

Again, you have literally quoted me but in the very next sentence you change what I said to something different that suits your own argument...

All that I said is correct, but when you change the context, you can say all sorts of bullshit. My comment stands. If you are hurt, then suck it up, but I'd try to understand the intended context before going off on one

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723061#Comment_117723061

Please expand on your argument? How have I misquoted/strawman attacked you? What's the flaw in my argument? I am not hurt at all, nor am I going off on one, but you do seem upset. Thought I put together a fairly well expressed (if poorly spelled) reply to your original post.....but if your level of debate is "thats not what I said, F off" then we are never going to have any rational exchange of ideas.

My assumed context you had was "why do people care so much about future value, its stupid, just buy what you like and enjoy it, all this value talk is taking is taking away your enjoyment of watches, look here is a watch I bought that doesnt hold value and I enjoy it a lot. If financials issues are a problem for you maybe spending money on watches is not a good idea and you are a bit too poor for the purchase"....was I wrong?

Bluefoam

Yes

Fitz II

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117723757#Comment_117723757

Great chat.😕

893bet

Great to reasoned debate from both sides.

Bluefoam

Lads, I made a comment. That comment was distorted and re-presented. I have no arguement other than don't misrepresent me...

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117724303#Comment_117724303

Not really. You said

.......BTW, if you need to worry about the future value of a watch, then you can't afford it... Buy something in your price range.....

We are disagreeing. I worry about my future value of watches as I know I will be selling at some point and I want to roll it into another watch and don’t want to take a bath each time I sell.

Can I afford to take a bath. Yes definitely. Do I want to no, no so I worry and make sure I buy relatively right.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117724516#Comment_117724516

No, you said (or some other poster) above that no one worries about the value of their watches and went off on a tangent. Just because you think I disagree with you, doesn't mean I have to engage in an argument. You can argue with yourself. I'm heading out for a pint wearing a nice watch that I enjoy.

scwazrh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117724923#Comment_117724923

Ah your no fun !!

enjoy your pint 🍻

893bet

Where did I say that exactly? I am literally saying the exact opposite, that most do worry about the value, as they will want to sell and flip it at some point into another watch. Interested to see where I said that.

The fact that people do worry (and I think worry is a strong word) about value does not mean they can’t afford it (which was the point you made that I disagree with).

Enjoy your pint and your watch. The fact that you need to throw that as though “you dont have time to engage as you are just too busy enjoying life” is rather strange I think. I am not arguing with anyone really. Point of a forum is back and forth discussion. But whatever. At least now you know you are wrong in your first post 😅.

Fitz II

Think I might have a pint myself, need to destress from a long day worrying about the value of my watches.....

893bet

I like a beater the weekend myself. Might have a bottle or two later.

The DayDream

If it's your first heavy hitter purchase narrowed down to 2 choices I would say it's a no brainer to get the one that will hold more value. Because it's doubtful that you're eye won't start to wander shortly after and then you will want the cash from a resale to fund the purchase of the next watch.

Personally I think Omega is milking the fk out of the speeedy popularity and they're overpriced. They'll probably be relatively easy to buy in a few years as collectors tire of their umpteenth special spaceman edition. But for a first luxury watch you can't go wrong as for the time being you can always flip them.

IWC I think only the portugieser and big pilot are the real 'name recognition' watches in their line and they are more money. If you're not gonna buy one of those get the Speedy then. I myself love the portugieser. Big Pilot is class too but lots of other very similar pilot watches for way less money from other branda

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117725035#Comment_117725035

I had two pints of Guinness in the pub this nice summer evening sitting outside in my t-shirt, wearing and enjoying my watch. First time I had pints in a pub since August of last year. I would have had 14 more pints, but I was worrying about the resale value of my watch too much, so I went home.

Etc

A poster asks for some advice on a watch forum and it gets totally hijacked by posters who are lamenting the demise of the forum.

unkel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117726109#Comment_117726109

Eh? I'm not sure what thread you are commenting about, but it sure does not seem to be this thread.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117726109#Comment_117726109

Really? Are you referring to Fitz or I ? As we have both commented on the forum demise/quietness. Are you suggesting that the way of increasing the forum activity is to only respond to the Opening posts and no posters on the thread should engage with each other?

if you read the thread in entirety I see detailed responses to the OP from posters including Fitz and I. And then a poster suggesting “if you worry about the future value of the watch then you can’t afford it and should buy in your budget” .

This point was challenged with some fairly reasoned and detailed responses but sadly the other side of the point only responded with what I see as a “strawman”. i guess that’s the beauty of a forum. Everyone’s voice can be heard if they want...or not heard if they choose not to respond.

It often feels like if you disagree with someone you are almost seen to be arguing. Are positive responses only allowed? Is peoples skin gone so thin that you can’t challenge someone on a point and allow them defend (or give context to the POV). Because that would really be to the demise of a “forum”.

California Dreamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117605824#Comment_117605824

6-7k for an entry level Rolex? Must be something very old. The price rises on the Rolex have been insane the last couple of years.

I was in Dawson jewellers last week and they had a nice collection of Omega and IWC so you should investigate there.

I would also look to join some of the facebook groups, I got some great advice on my 3rd Breitling purchase earlier this year from those groups.

Fitz II

I really like talking to the guys in Dawson they are sound but I would be cautious recommending them. I realise they have an expensive shop and staff.

• Their prices are astronomical, they will blindly suggest prices 30% higher than market with straight faces. Offers to buy are equally insulting. I find this off, as prices of watches are so easy to find on your phone in seconds. I asked them for a patek dress watch at one point and they came back to me 6 weeks later with a price 8k more than I had paid another dealer. Like what did they expect me to do?
• They sell a lot of modified watches, Kermit bezels on non kermit subs, White gold Daytona passing a Platinum, PVD coated crap. They are honest about them, but all the same they should be return that stuff to stock. Would not buy vintage off them in a fit.
• The condition of a lot of their stock is not ideal.

A friend suggested that you could take the "ellers" off the end of their name and its would be appropriate enough. They had 4 speedies in the window all over 4500 euro.

Facebook groups are good however they are echo chambers. Rolex forums will push Rolex, Breitling forums push those. Try stick to general groups so you see a wide range of stuff passing through. Avoid the urban gentry like the plague. Never be angry with anyone else for being honest of giving their opinion.

6-7k Rolex- OP 36mm, datejust, preceramic sports etc. But honestly if you have 6-7 you could stretch to 8 and that 6 digit submariner territory or explorer I/II

Ian OB

Never mind residuals etc. Think about what the watch you wear says about you & what you want it to say about you.

micks_address

could you imagine the iwc add running these days :)

Cyclingtourist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117726993#Comment_117726993

😁Yeah, love the reference to stewardesses bedside tables, feeds into all kinds of male fantasies.

Lorddrakul

Indeed, we are still only waking up to the casual misogyny that is persistent in marketing, especially to men.

We are a sad bunch, really.

Cienciano

Using an inflation calculator, that $235 in 1965 is $2026 now

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727720#Comment_117727720

Reckon if I get on to Omega and demand a $2,026 Speedmaster they'll give one to me? 😁

Thirdfox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117601901#Comment_117601901

Hopefully we haven't scared you off(!)

The thing that jumped out at me was your question being phrased as a choice between a "Speedmaster" and an "IWC" - one model clearly was in your mind moreso than the other as a brand... I'd compared it to mentioning an artist by their first name and not needing to say more - "oh are you a fan of Beyonce?" or "I'm not a fan of the Queen" - no one is asking if you mean the queen of Bahrain or Holland 😁

I bought a Speedmaster new many years ago - and if it weren't for a burglar I'd still have it in my collection - so it varies from person to person - I loved the Speedy enough that with the insurance I purchased another Speedmaster - for me it was a slight change from a black dial to white dial - I got the Speedy moonphase (2nd hand this time) ref 3575.20 (I'm a big fan of having date complication on my watches if possible):

https://www.chrono24.co.uk/omega/ref-357520.htm#gref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117727720#Comment_117727720

Slight correction - the advert (and price) dates from 1973 so it is more like $1438

Watch_Fan

1100028840_PREVIEW.jpeg.jpg

Thanks for all the advice and comments. I went with the speedmaster.

On a separate topic I came across this Omega (70s?) online & like it as a vintage dress watch. Believe it is a seamaster. Can anyone tell me more about it? I don't even know the reference number. It is in an online auction

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117776982#Comment_117776982

Sorry Watch fan there's no link to the auction in your post.

mad m

@Watch_Fan

well wear. Congrats on the Speedy..