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Soldier F

  • 02-07-2021 11:34am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,560 ✭✭✭ votecounts


    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1410915243803488260


    Disgraceful that no one will be held to account for the murder of innocent civilians. For those who say he was old and sick to be tried should look at the ages of the Nazis that they have charged. Hope the Irish Govt condemns this decision but I won't hold my breath just like the BallyMurphy Massacre:(


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,036 ✭✭✭✭ maccored


    usual story. the british government can't let one of their soldiers admit to something like that. it would shine a light on the other **** they've got away with. Cue the usual posters with their support for such murders


  • Registered Users Posts: 55,287 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    The question needs to be asked 'was there ever a 'reasonable prospect' of a prosecution?

    They managed to kick and kick the ball down the road for 40 years until they reached this point.

    When will the Irish government vociferously call them out on this - 'reasonable prospects' on a postcard please.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭ Blaaz_


    the case againest him has collasped today......a self-admitted killer of multiple 100% innocent people,who sails into the sunset,keeps his medels


    They followed the nazis to ends of the earth for justice and let killers of irish people off free....irish government serious needs to fund a wiesenthal type character to persue justice here


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,560 ✭✭✭ votecounts


    A very good comment from the local MP.

    https://twitter.com/columeastwood/status/1410940324130824199

    Amazes that these Murdering Scum will have their defenders, some of whom call themselves "Irish"


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,936 ✭✭✭ Stovepipe


    Well, if the Irish govt is washing its hands of hundreds of dead babies and is prepared to turn a blind eye to other scandals,why would or should it go out of its way to chase down a single member of a foreign army in another jurisdiction? They could equally turn their energies to pursuing former IRA/INLA killers,many of whom are entirely at liberty in the Republic. Where do you draw the line about who is an acceptable target of legal scrutiny?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 808 ✭✭✭ 2lazytogetup


    We all accept its wrong. im no expert and dont understand but i think the book needs to be closed on the past. forgive and forget. Lilly apologised a few years back.

    criminal prosecutions is for deterrance, but we know this wouldnt happen again so no detterance objective

    i feel bad for the victims families, but i dont see any alternative.

    id say all soldiers that killed innocent persons feel bad and never sleep well again. i doubt he even thinks what he did is right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭ ec18


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    ,why would or should it go out of its way to chase down a single member of a foreign army in another jurisdiction?

    It wasn't a foreign army in a different jurisdiction. It was a domestic army in their own jurisdiction. This has nothing to do with the Irish government as the crime was not committed inside the republics jurisdiction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭ xieann


    You posted this in AH OP, not Current Affairs. I go with the opinions of the other posters who registered pre 2010


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,560 ✭✭✭ votecounts


    For those saying the past is the past and they are too old to charge should remind themselves they were charging ordinary nazi soldiers who were in their 90's. I personally think it's a disgrace that this Murderer will never spend one day in Jail along with fellow cronies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,430 ✭✭✭✭ steddyeddy


    votecounts wrote: »
    A very good comment from the local MP.

    https://twitter.com/columeastwood/status/1410940324130824199

    Amazes that these Murdering Scum will have their defenders, some of whom call themselves "Irish"

    Never a more apt comment was spoken. Dave (soldier F) was nothing more than a serial killer and will be remembered as such by civilised people. For those in doubt here's Douglas Murray, right wing spectator contributor detailing the events that led to solider F's infamy.
    Under questioning in 2003, the short and stocky F — then in late middle age — was reduced to monosyllabic answers, generally of either ‘yes’ or ‘no’. He claimed to remember almost nothing of the day, despite it being his first visit to Londonderry and — by his own admission — the most shots he had fired on any deployment up to that date. Under devastating questioning, F was shown to have killed at least four people that day. One of them was Patrick Doherty, shot through a buttock as he was crawling away. One more killing which soldier F had ‘forgotten’ about when first questioned by the RMP.

    Then, while Doherty lay crying in agony, a 41-year-old man called Barney McGuigan stepped out from behind a block of flats to try to get help for the dying man. McGuigan was waving a white handkerchief. According to the testimony of numerous witnesses, including an officer from another regiment stationed on the city walls, soldier F — positioned on the other side of the road — got down on one knee and shot McGuigan through the head. No one who saw the mortuary photos of the exit wound in McGuigan’s face will forget what just that one bullet of soldier F’s did.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 808 ✭✭✭ 2lazytogetup


    votecounts wrote: »
    For those saying the past is the past and they are too old to charge should remind themselves they were charging ordinary nazi soldiers who were in their 90's. I personally think it's a disgrace that this Murderer will never spend one day in Jail along with fellow cronies.

    you have a point somehow. i wonder if nazi germany they annihalted the jews, the nazis didnt suffer. with northern ireland, there were IRA killing of RUC and protestants. this is AH, not current affairs.

    Plus the jewish community is quite powerful so politically used their power to ensure trials at nurembourg. many genocide around the world that never see consequences for the criminal activitiesl.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭ Gregor Samsa


    I think the Nazi war crime whataboutry is a bit off, but even accepting it on face value - Soldier F was charged and now it's been decided that there isn't a reasonable chance of conviction. It isn't about the will to go after then or funding - evidence has been deemed inadmissible on legal grounds. That's part if the legal process. Charges against some Nazis fell down at various stages of the legal process too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,956 ✭✭✭ Allinall


    Anything goes in a war/ conflict situation, as SF-IRA say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭ Blaaz_


    Stovepipe wrote: »
    Well, if the Irish govt is washing its hands of hundreds of dead babies and is prepared to turn a blind eye to other scandals,why would or should it go out of its way to chase down a single member of a foreign army in another jurisdiction? They could equally turn their energies to pursuing former IRA/INLA killers,many of whom are entirely at liberty in the Republic. Where do you draw the line about who is an acceptable target of legal scrutiny?

    I have no problem with any murderer of any irish people being persued.


    Edgar ray killen was convicted 41 years after killing 3 civil rights campaigners in america and died in jail,there is no reason same cant apply here


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭ landofthetree


    Blaaz_ wrote: »
    I have no problem with any murderer of any irish people being persued.


    Edgar ray killen was convicted 41 years after killing 3 civil rights campaigners in america and died in jail,there is no reason same cant apply here

    It cant. Its 1 year in jail maximum after the GFA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭ Blaaz_


    We all accept its wrong. im no expert and dont understand but i think the book needs to be closed on the past. forgive and forget. Lilly apologised a few years back.

    criminal prosecutions is for deterrance, but we know this wouldnt happen again so no detterance objective

    i feel bad for the victims families, but i dont see any alternative.

    id say all soldiers that killed innocent persons feel bad and never sleep well again. i doubt he even thinks what he did is right.

    Would you not feel,if the north decended into mayham again,that there would be nothing to stop paras from.doing same again??


    He had a chance to indemify himself at saville inquiry,but choose to lie instead......he felt so bad about bloody sunday,stayed in army until 1988 and was promoted twice


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭ landofthetree


    I think the Nazi war crime whataboutry is a bit off, but even accepting it on face value - Soldier F was charged and now it's been decided that there isn't a reasonable chance of conviction. It isn't about the will to go after then or funding - evidence has been deemed inadmissible on legal grounds. That's part if the legal process. Charges against some Nazis fell down at various stages of the legal process too.

    400,000 Nazis should have been jailed.

    Most were just given a few lectures on how bad they were.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification

    Some got jobs high up in the UN and in the new Germany.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Waldheim


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ ShatterAlan


    We all accept its wrong. im no expert and dont understand but i think the book needs to be closed on the past. forgive and forget. Lilly apologised a few years back.

    criminal prosecutions is for deterrance, but we know this wouldnt happen again so no detterance objective

    i feel bad for the victims families, but i dont see any alternative.

    id say all soldiers that killed innocent persons feel bad and never sleep well again. i doubt he even thinks what he did is right.


    What do you mean this wouldn't happen again?
    Didn't the British commit multiple war crimes in Iraq?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭ corner of hells


    Ive posted this before in a similar thread , Canada disbanded a parachute battalion after its behaviours in Somalia, thats what the UK should do, it pointless in trying to prosecute individual soldiers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,257 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    Sets a lovely stage for any civil disobedience that may arise in the UK in the future.

    The army can deploy, can commit murder of British Citizens and carry on with zero consequences.
    The British and in particular the English keep viewing the troubles as an "Irish" problem.
    They ignore the simple truth that the British army was deployed against British citizens and carried out a quasi policing role and multiple extra-judicial murders with zero sanctions.

    The attitude of HMG towards the use of lethal force against British citizens carries significant differences based upon whether they are on the mainland, or in Ireland.

    The casual murder exemplified by Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy require justice.
    It's not enough to say that the admissions are not justiciable.
    Whilst due process may require that these pawns wi not see the inside of a court?

    Surely, if nothing else this highlights the need for some form of truth and reconciliation commission to offer at least a definitive line under the actions of HMG and paramilitaries in NI.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 77,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sephiroth_dude


    Moved from Ah, better suited here in CA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,511 ✭✭✭✭ Muahahaha


    Anyone know if thats the end of the case or do the families have a route into a European court like the Haugue or ECHR?


  • Registered Users Posts: 55,287 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    Anyone know if thats the end of the case or do the families have a route into a European court like the Haugue or ECHR?

    Solicitors say they are going to appeal it. How, or to which court...I don't know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭ Frankie Machine


    ec18 wrote: »
    It wasn't a foreign army in a different jurisdiction. It was a domestic army in their own jurisdiction. This has nothing to do with the Irish government as the crime was not committed inside the republics jurisdiction.

    Did none of the victims hold Irish passports ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,146 ✭✭✭✭ NIMAN


    Murdering [email protected], hope he rots in hell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 55,287 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    Did none of the victims hold Irish passports ?

    Margaret Thatcher 1981 'Murder is murder is murder'.

    Not if you are Irish it seems. .


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,485 ✭✭✭✭ A Dub in Glasgo


    F is a pyschopath who has been protected too long by the British government


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭ Frankie Machine


    Margaret Thatcher 1981 'Murder is murder is murder'.

    Not if you are Irish it seems. .

    The point of my asking the question was the assertion that...
    This has nothing to do with the Irish government as the crime was not committed inside the republics jurisdiction.

    ... which in technically not true anyway.

    If any of the victims were Irish passport holders, then it certainly has a lot to do with the Irish government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 55,287 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    The point of my asking the question was the assertion that...



    ... which in technically not true anyway.

    If any of the victims were Irish passport holders, then it certainly has a lot to do with the Irish government.

    Ok, good man. You assert away there.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭ Frankie Machine


    Ok, good man. You assert away there.


    I didn't make any assertion.

    I questioned the other poster's assertion that the killings had nothing to do with the Irish government.

    Which seemed to me, a ridiculous take on the thing.


    ps I don't need your imprimatur to post. Who do you think you are ?


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