Soldier F

votecounts

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1410915243803488260


Disgraceful that no one will be held to account for the murder of innocent civilians. For those who say he was old and sick to be tried should look at the ages of the Nazis that they have charged. Hope the Irish Govt condemns this decision but I won't hold my breath just like the BallyMurphy Massacre:(

maccored

usual story. the british government can't let one of their soldiers admit to something like that. it would shine a light on the other **** they've got away with. Cue the usual posters with their support for such murders

FrancieBrady

The question needs to be asked 'was there ever a 'reasonable prospect' of a prosecution?

They managed to kick and kick the ball down the road for 40 years until they reached this point.

When will the Irish government vociferously call them out on this - 'reasonable prospects' on a postcard please.

the case againest him has collasped today......a self-admitted killer of multiple 100% innocent people,who sails into the sunset,keeps his medels


They followed the nazis to ends of the earth for justice and let killers of irish people off free....irish government serious needs to fund a wiesenthal type character to persue justice here

votecounts

A very good comment from the local MP.

https://twitter.com/columeastwood/status/1410940324130824199

Amazes that these Murdering Scum will have their defenders, some of whom call themselves "Irish"

Stovepipe

Well, if the Irish govt is washing its hands of hundreds of dead babies and is prepared to turn a blind eye to other scandals,why would or should it go out of its way to chase down a single member of a foreign army in another jurisdiction? They could equally turn their energies to pursuing former IRA/INLA killers,many of whom are entirely at liberty in the Republic. Where do you draw the line about who is an acceptable target of legal scrutiny?

2lazytogetup

We all accept its wrong. im no expert and dont understand but i think the book needs to be closed on the past. forgive and forget. Lilly apologised a few years back.

criminal prosecutions is for deterrance, but we know this wouldnt happen again so no detterance objective

i feel bad for the victims families, but i dont see any alternative.

id say all soldiers that killed innocent persons feel bad and never sleep well again. i doubt he even thinks what he did is right.

ec18

Stovepipe wrote: »

,why would or should it go out of its way to chase down a single member of a foreign army in another jurisdiction?

It wasn't a foreign army in a different jurisdiction. It was a domestic army in their own jurisdiction. This has nothing to do with the Irish government as the crime was not committed inside the republics jurisdiction.

You posted this in AH OP, not Current Affairs. I go with the opinions of the other posters who registered pre 2010

votecounts

For those saying the past is the past and they are too old to charge should remind themselves they were charging ordinary nazi soldiers who were in their 90's. I personally think it's a disgrace that this Murderer will never spend one day in Jail along with fellow cronies.

steddyeddy

votecounts wrote: »

A very good comment from the local MP.

https://twitter.com/columeastwood/status/1410940324130824199

Amazes that these Murdering Scum will have their defenders, some of whom call themselves "Irish"

Never a more apt comment was spoken. Dave (soldier F) was nothing more than a serial killer and will be remembered as such by civilised people. For those in doubt here's Douglas Murray, right wing spectator contributor detailing the events that led to solider F's infamy.

Under questioning in 2003, the short and stocky F — then in late middle age — was reduced to monosyllabic answers, generally of either ‘yes’ or ‘no’. He claimed to remember almost nothing of the day, despite it being his first visit to Londonderry and — by his own admission — the most shots he had fired on any deployment up to that date. Under devastating questioning, F was shown to have killed at least four people that day. One of them was Patrick Doherty, shot through a buttock as he was crawling away. One more killing which soldier F had ‘forgotten’ about when first questioned by the RMP.

Then, while Doherty lay crying in agony, a 41-year-old man called Barney McGuigan stepped out from behind a block of flats to try to get help for the dying man. McGuigan was waving a white handkerchief. According to the testimony of numerous witnesses, including an officer from another regiment stationed on the city walls, soldier F — positioned on the other side of the road — got down on one knee and shot McGuigan through the head. No one who saw the mortuary photos of the exit wound in McGuigan’s face will forget what just that one bullet of soldier F’s did.

2lazytogetup

votecounts wrote: »

For those saying the past is the past and they are too old to charge should remind themselves they were charging ordinary nazi soldiers who were in their 90's. I personally think it's a disgrace that this Murderer will never spend one day in Jail along with fellow cronies.

you have a point somehow. i wonder if nazi germany they annihalted the jews, the nazis didnt suffer. with northern ireland, there were IRA killing of RUC and protestants. this is AH, not current affairs.

Plus the jewish community is quite powerful so politically used their power to ensure trials at nurembourg. many genocide around the world that never see consequences for the criminal activitiesl.

Gregor Samsa

I think the Nazi war crime whataboutry is a bit off, but even accepting it on face value - Soldier F was charged and now it's been decided that there isn't a reasonable chance of conviction. It isn't about the will to go after then or funding - evidence has been deemed inadmissible on legal grounds. That's part if the legal process. Charges against some Nazis fell down at various stages of the legal process too.

Allinall

Anything goes in a war/ conflict situation, as SF-IRA say.

Stovepipe

Stovepipe wrote: »

Well, if the Irish govt is washing its hands of hundreds of dead babies and is prepared to turn a blind eye to other scandals,why would or should it go out of its way to chase down a single member of a foreign army in another jurisdiction? They could equally turn their energies to pursuing former IRA/INLA killers,many of whom are entirely at liberty in the Republic. Where do you draw the line about who is an acceptable target of legal scrutiny?

I have no problem with any murderer of any irish people being persued.


Edgar ray killen was convicted 41 years after killing 3 civil rights campaigners in america and died in jail,there is no reason same cant apply here

landofthetree

Deleted User wrote: »

I have no problem with any murderer of any irish people being persued.


Edgar ray killen was convicted 41 years after killing 3 civil rights campaigners in america and died in jail,there is no reason same cant apply here

It cant. Its 1 year in jail maximum after the GFA.

2lazytogetup

2lazytogetup wrote: »

We all accept its wrong. im no expert and dont understand but i think the book needs to be closed on the past. forgive and forget. Lilly apologised a few years back.

criminal prosecutions is for deterrance, but we know this wouldnt happen again so no detterance objective

i feel bad for the victims families, but i dont see any alternative.

id say all soldiers that killed innocent persons feel bad and never sleep well again. i doubt he even thinks what he did is right.

Would you not feel,if the north decended into mayham again,that there would be nothing to stop paras from.doing same again??


He had a chance to indemify himself at saville inquiry,but choose to lie instead......he felt so bad about bloody sunday,stayed in army until 1988 and was promoted twice

landofthetree

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

I think the Nazi war crime whataboutry is a bit off, but even accepting it on face value - Soldier F was charged and now it's been decided that there isn't a reasonable chance of conviction. It isn't about the will to go after then or funding - evidence has been deemed inadmissible on legal grounds. That's part if the legal process. Charges against some Nazis fell down at various stages of the legal process too.

400,000 Nazis should have been jailed.

Most were just given a few lectures on how bad they were.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification

Some got jobs high up in the UN and in the new Germany.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Waldheim

ShatterAlan

2lazytogetup wrote: »

We all accept its wrong. im no expert and dont understand but i think the book needs to be closed on the past. forgive and forget. Lilly apologised a few years back.

criminal prosecutions is for deterrance, but we know this wouldnt happen again so no detterance objective

i feel bad for the victims families, but i dont see any alternative.

id say all soldiers that killed innocent persons feel bad and never sleep well again. i doubt he even thinks what he did is right.

What do you mean this wouldn't happen again?
Didn't the British commit multiple war crimes in Iraq?

corner of hells

Ive posted this before in a similar thread , Canada disbanded a parachute battalion after its behaviours in Somalia, thats what the UK should do, it pointless in trying to prosecute individual soldiers.

banie01

Sets a lovely stage for any civil disobedience that may arise in the UK in the future.

The army can deploy, can commit murder of British Citizens and carry on with zero consequences.
The British and in particular the English keep viewing the troubles as an "Irish" problem.
They ignore the simple truth that the British army was deployed against British citizens and carried out a quasi policing role and multiple extra-judicial murders with zero sanctions.

The attitude of HMG towards the use of lethal force against British citizens carries significant differences based upon whether they are on the mainland, or in Ireland.

The casual murder exemplified by Bloody Sunday and Ballymurphy require justice.
It's not enough to say that the admissions are not justiciable.
Whilst due process may require that these pawns wi not see the inside of a court?

Surely, if nothing else this highlights the need for some form of truth and reconciliation commission to offer at least a definitive line under the actions of HMG and paramilitaries in NI.

Sephiroth_dude

Moved from Ah, better suited here in CA.

Muahahaha

Anyone know if thats the end of the case or do the families have a route into a European court like the Haugue or ECHR?

FrancieBrady

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone know if thats the end of the case or do the families have a route into a European court like the Haugue or ECHR?

Solicitors say they are going to appeal it. How, or to which court...I don't know.

Frankie Machine

ec18 wrote: »

It wasn't a foreign army in a different jurisdiction. It was a domestic army in their own jurisdiction. This has nothing to do with the Irish government as the crime was not committed inside the republics jurisdiction.

Did none of the victims hold Irish passports ?

NIMAN

Murdering b@stard, hope he rots in hell.

FrancieBrady

Frankie Machine wrote: »

Did none of the victims hold Irish passports ?

Margaret Thatcher 1981 'Murder is murder is murder'.

Not if you are Irish it seems. .

A Dub in Glasgo

F is a pyschopath who has been protected too long by the British government

Frankie Machine

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Margaret Thatcher 1981 'Murder is murder is murder'.

Not if you are Irish it seems. .

The point of my asking the question was the assertion that...

This has nothing to do with the Irish government as the crime was not committed inside the republics jurisdiction.

... which in technically not true anyway.

If any of the victims were Irish passport holders, then it certainly has a lot to do with the Irish government.

FrancieBrady

Frankie Machine wrote: »

The point of my asking the question was the assertion that...



... which in technically not true anyway.

If any of the victims were Irish passport holders, then it certainly has a lot to do with the Irish government.

Ok, good man. You assert away there.

Frankie Machine

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ok, good man. You assert away there.

I didn't make any assertion.

I questioned the other poster's assertion that the killings had nothing to do with the Irish government.

Which seemed to me, a ridiculous take on the thing.


ps I don't need your imprimatur to post. Who do you think you are ?

Stovepipe

ec18 wrote: »

It wasn't a foreign army in a different jurisdiction. It was a domestic army in their own jurisdiction. This has nothing to do with the Irish government as the crime was not committed inside the republics jurisdiction.

I couldn't agree more. It has nothing to do with 2021 Ireland because it happened somewhere else (the UK),to people who were technically their own citizens. Not our problem then,not our problem now.

steddyeddy

Allinall wrote: »

Anything goes in a war/ conflict situation, as SF-IRA say.

And it seems you agree with them.

johnsae2231

Stovepipe wrote: »

I couldn't agree more. It has nothing to do with 2021 Ireland because it happened somewhere else (the UK),to people who were technically their own citizens. Not our problem then,not our problem now.

Absolute rubbish, sad to think there are many privileged snobs like this still around with attitudes like that.

Back then all of Ireland was claimed by the republic of Ireland, which in effect made us occupied, innocent Irish teenagers killed in occupied territory by a foreign army.

How could you say it has nothing do with the Irish government you clearly have no idea how big a deal bloody Sunday was in the republic, the 26 counties came to standstill for days the biggest protests in europe since WW2 were going on.

RoyalCelt

[Deleted User] wrote: »

the case againest him has collasped today......a self-admitted killer of multiple 100% innocent people,who sails into the sunset,keeps his medels


They followed the nazis to ends of the earth for justice and let killers of irish people off free....irish government serious needs to fund a wiesenthal type character to persue justice here

History is controlled by the Victor. If the Nazis didn't fall do you think they'd be all prosecuted? The Brits haven't fallen and are held accountable by themselves.

steddyeddy

RoyalCelt wrote: »

History is controlled by the Victor. If the Nazis didn't fall do you think they'd be all prosecuted? The Brits haven't fallen and are held accountable by themselves.

That's certainly an arguable point. They were in the EU, however, now they have chosen to compete with the EU. There's no way they'll end having the same sort of international clout after this.

johnsae2231

RoyalCelt wrote: »

History is controlled by the Victor. If the Nazis didn't fall do you think they'd be all prosecuted? The Brits haven't fallen and are held accountable by themselves.

They have not fallen, but they are falling.

An Claidheamh

Muahahaha wrote: »

Anyone know if thats the end of the case or do the families have a route into a European court like the Haugue or ECHR?

The Hague is where it should have been in the first place, any explanation as to why Serbian army officers were tried there and not British?

If the families wished, they could easily get donations to pursue this there (same with Ballymurphy) and possibly shame the Irish government into helping.

If this apparent trial is over, then the "soldiers" should be named and shamed

An Claidheamh

Allinall wrote: »

Anything goes in a war/ conflict situation, as SF-IRA say.

Funny, the Brits and FFG all of a sudden regard the IRA as combatants after decades of refusing to recognise them as such

FYI, it was actually the Labour Party- Official IRA who bombed the Brits first after Bloody Sunday

Feisar

I got roasted for my opinion on this here a good while back but maybe I didn’t articulate myself well enough.
Here goes again!

If you give a man a gun and send him into a hostile environment, guess what he’ll use the tool he’s given. If someone was rioting against me and I’ve a gun, they’re going to be catching lead.
Paras are trained psychopaths so amplify that by 10.
Military are not and should not be attempted to be utilised as police.
It’s not soldier F that needs to answer, he done as he was trained, it’s the cùnts that put him there that need to atone.

An Claidheamh

John Mercer British MP claimed the British army were sent to NI to stop a "civil war", same excuse used by Hitler when he annexed Austria and the Soviets when they occupied Eastern and Central Europe

Imperialists gonna Imp

An Claidheamh

Soldier F is named as Dave ****

https://villagemagazine.ie/soldier-f-the-cold-blooded-bloody-sunday-murderer-is-named/

No reason for Irish media not to name all of them

Fat chance though

Tyrone212

Stovepipe wrote: »

Well, if the Irish govt is washing its hands of hundreds of dead babies and is prepared to turn a blind eye to other scandals,why would or should it go out of its way to chase down a single member of a foreign army in another jurisdiction? They could equally turn their energies to pursuing former IRA/INLA killers,many of whom are entirely at liberty in the Republic. Where do you draw the line about who is an acceptable target of legal scrutiny?

Nice dose of whataboutery there. Sure what's the point in convicting tomorrow's killers when there's still murderers at large. I don't remember the Irish army going in and shooting a 15 year old in the head twice and then covering it up and playing the victim. Disgusting comment. An uppity clueless comment if ever there was one.

Greyfox

Feisar wrote: »

If you give a man a gun and send him into a hostile environment, guess what he’ll use the tool he’s given. If someone was rioting against me and I’ve a gun, they’re going to be catching lead.

Your trying to justify murder, killing a protester who doesnt have a dangerous weapon is NEVER ok. If you were a soldier in a warzone and you see a small child with no weapon would it be ok to shoot them?

johnsae2231

Greyfox wrote: »

Your trying to justify murder, killing a protester who doesnt have a dangerous weapon is NEVER ok. If you were a soldier in a warzone and you see a small child with no weapon would it be ok to shoot them?

According to himself, if the small child threw a couple of stones he would be left with no choice.

johnsae2231

Allinall wrote: »

Anything goes in a war/ conflict situation, as SF-IRA say.

Although they never actually said that did they, that's something you heard from Eoghan Harris and continue to believe to this day.

Fuascailteoir

Feisar wrote: »

I got roasted for my opinion on this here a good while back but maybe I didn’t articulate myself well enough.
Here goes again!

If you give a man a gun and send him into a hostile environment, guess what he’ll use the tool he’s given. If someone was rioting against me and I’ve a gun, they’re going to be catching lead.
Paras are trained psychopaths so amplify that by 10.
Military are not and should not be attempted to be utilised as police.
It’s not soldier F that needs to answer, he done as he was trained, it’s the cùnts that put him there that need to atone.

Pathetic justification for murder of innocent people

FrancieBrady

Feisar wrote: »

It’s not soldier F that needs to answer, he done as he was trained, it’s the cùnts that put him there that need to atone.

They all should stand trial. You should also include all those who conspired to whitewash and cover it up.

It is the only way the British government gets it integrity back. They have conspired here to kick this ball down the years until we reached this point.

mikethecop

is this covered by the gfa ?

lot of people going to jail and back to jail on both sides of that goes pop

sf would take a big hit

tdf7187

To those posters who spend all their time on boards.ie ranting about Sinn Fein, given that we now have a de-facto amnesty for British soldiers regarding the Troubles, do you support an amnesty for republicans?

Sauce for the goose is after all fit for the gander.

As a republican with no allegiance to SF or another party, I personally do not support the prosecution of individual low level combatants. I believe it lets the higher ups off the hook. I would certainly support the prosecutions of Ted Heath and Merlyn Rees, were they still alive.

tdf7187

mikethecop wrote: »

is this covered by the gfa ?

lot of people going to jail and back to jail on both sides of that goes pop

sf would take a big hit

It benefits dissidents, pure and simple. The mainstream media and establishment in the UK and Ireland should be careful what they wish for.