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New 2021 Assistant Principal in the Civil Service

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  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭ Cheeseplant



    Just noticed that I've started both the 2020 and 2021 competition threads.. wonder if I'll actually get a job out of one of them :rolleyes::D


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Crimson_Ghost


    Thanks for the information. Is there an internal competition running also? I wasn't eligible for internal last time, but I could do the double-shot this time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭ Cheeseplant


    Thanks for the information. Is there an internal competition running also? I wasn't eligible for internal last time, but I could do the double-shot this time.

    From the booklet:
    This open competition is being conducted in parallel with an interdepartmental promotional
    competition for this grade for eligible serving civil servants. Existing eligible civil servants are permitted
    to apply and to sit the selection tests/interviews etc. only once even if applying for both competitions


  • Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭ derailed


    From the booklet:
    This open competition is being conducted in parallel with an interdepartmental promotional
    competition for this grade for eligible serving civil servants. Existing eligible civil servants are permitted
    to apply and to sit the selection tests/interviews etc. only once even if applying for both competitions

    Also got notification in office that an AP Higher Interdepartmental competition is likely to be held in Q3 2021 confined to those at AP Standard level at the time of competition and for the top 160 after Stage 1 of this 2021 AP competition so in interests to apply for this if not at the grade at the time of advertisement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭ Cheeseplant


    derailed wrote: »
    Also got notification in office that an AP Higher Interdepartmental competition is likely to be held in Q3 2021 confined to those at AP Standard level at the time of competition and for the top 160 after Stage 1 of this 2021 AP competition so in interests to apply for this if not at the grade at the time of advertisement.

    Thanks Derailed. Our Dept hasn't sent that around yet. I'm waiting on interview results at the mo but will be applying anyway just in case :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,893 ✭✭✭✭ snoopsheep


    Bit of a surprise for anyone still alive in the 2020 comp!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 sunny7700


    Anyone able to download the PDF application? I've tried through chrome/ microsoft edge and on a different devices but doesnt seem to work.

    Maybe its a sign, not sure if I'm ready for more rejection just yet :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭ brownbinman


    sunny7700 wrote: »
    Anyone able to download the PDF application? I've tried through chrome/ microsoft edge and on a different devices but doesnt seem to work.

    Maybe its a sign, not sure if I'm ready for more rejection just yet :)

    I eventually got it to work on second device. I've found with these in the past, it won't open directly. You need to go into your Downloads folder and open it from there

    It's very similar to other years in terms of 3 questions and one about yourself


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 sunny7700


    Any chance someone could pm a blank PDF application form? Its still not working and tried accessing it through my downloads folder. I'm working from home and then on leave for 2 weeks, so I wont have a chance to try and download it in work.

    Thanks,


  • Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭ brownbinman


    sunny7700 wrote: »
    Any chance someone could pm a blank PDF application form? Its still not working and tried accessing it through my downloads folder. I'm working from home and then on leave for 2 weeks, so I wont have a chance to try and download it in work.

    Thanks,

    sure, PM me your email. When in Downloads folder, I also right clicked and selected Open With Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, worked for me


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 3,635 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Ravelleman


    Booklet attached for future reference.


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭ Sonrisa


    Would there be many APs in Cork?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,572 ✭✭✭✭ Rikand


    Sonrisa wrote: »
    Would there be many APs in Cork?

    Probably between 100-150 in Co. Cork total if this mobility map is accurate

    https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=83eb12efc9c7478a982d39a89f759663

    100ish in Cork city itself with 34 in revenue. 15 in Ballincollig that I saw and who knows with regard to other places. Have a feeling that the CSO in Cork City must have a good few when there are 180 CO's and 120 EO's even though it doesnt list any.

    Of course, how many of those positions will be vacated and filled from this panel over the course of 2 years.... who knows :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭ Brera


    From reading the booklet this looks like a Dublin only competition. They have panels in place for all of the counties except Dublin from last years competition which they want to use up before they start taking people from this new competition. This really sucks if you don’t want to go to Dublin !

    “Candidates should note that there are currently panels in place for all counties (excluding Dublin) from the 2020 Assistant Principal Officer Standard Open competition and these panels are due to expire in March 2022, if not exhausted in the interim. New panels from this 2021 Assistant Principal Officer Standard Open competition will be formed on a demand led basis and where 2020 panels are exhausted.
    It is not envisaged that appointments will be made from this competition after 31 July 2023.”


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭ Cheeseplant


    Brera wrote: »
    From reading the booklet this looks like a Dublin only competition. They have panels in place for all of the counties except Dublin from last years competition which they want to use up before they start taking people from this new competition. This really sucks if you don’t want to go to Dublin !

    “Candidates should note that there are currently panels in place for all counties (excluding Dublin) from the 2020 Assistant Principal Officer Standard Open competition and these panels are due to expire in March 2022, if not exhausted in the interim. New panels from this 2021 Assistant Principal Officer Standard Open competition will be formed on a demand led basis and where 2020 panels are exhausted.
    It is not envisaged that appointments will be made from this competition after 31 July 2023.”

    But means any regional panels created from this comp will be used between March 2022 and July 23 so there is still hope for regional candidates. I'd also argue that WFH arrangements into the future would mean a "Dublin" job could be done in a regional office/hub/home situation a few days a week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭ Brera


    But means any regional panels created from this comp will be used between March 2022 and July 23 so there is still hope for regional candidates. I'd also argue that WFH arrangements into the future would mean a "Dublin" job could be done in a regional office/hub/home situation a few days a week.

    That’s true but it will take a lot longer for regional candidates to get placed this time around.

    The WFH arrangements will depend on what department but it’s definitely an option.


  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭ FenFlynn


    Surprised at how soon they opened up this competition, I wasn't expecting it until at least March 2022.

    I'm going to give this a go as well even though I've only started as an AO a few months ago. It took me 4 years to get the AO, so going to start trying for the AP, and hope to get it after a few goes.
    I've a question on the application form part B, is it better to give one example each for the three competency questions? Or just outline in bullet points any experience I may have had? The application form always gets me, anytime there is shortlisting based on Application Form, I generally failed to go through. TIA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭ Cheeseplant


    Brera wrote: »
    That’s true but it will take a lot longer for regional candidates to get placed this time around.

    The WFH arrangements will depend on what department but it’s definitely an option.

    I do wonder how they are going to get around this..Leo has been out and about talking about regional hubs so it can't be one rule for private and the public expected to be back on-site. Pity they didn't keep up decentralisation :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭ Brera


    I do wonder how they are going to get around this..Leo has been out and about talking about regional hubs so it can't be one rule for private and the public expected to be back on-site. Pity they didn't keep up decentralisation :D

    Regional hubs will work once they kit them out properly and pay for people to run them.

    I’m waiting to see what the union look for. I know they want flexi time restored for everyone. Which I don’t see happening. How could you do it when people are working from home.

    The idea of remote working could be used as an incentive to ‘change working practices’ that way not everyone would not be stuck on a public desk or do they go with giving an allowance for those jobs that can’t be done remotely. It’s going to be interesting to see how it works out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭ Brera


    FenFlynn wrote: »
    Surprised at how soon they opened up this competition, I wasn't expecting it until at least March 2022.

    I'm going to give this a go as well even though I've only started as an AO a few months ago. It took me 4 years to get the AO, so going to start trying for the AP, and hope to get it after a few goes.
    I've a question on the application form part B, is it better to give one example each for the three competency questions? Or just outline in bullet points any experience I may have had? The application form always gets me, anytime there is shortlisting based on Application Form, I generally failed to go through. TIA.

    I would go with one example for each and make it detailed to make sure it covers all of the competencies they are looking for.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭ FenFlynn


    Brera wrote: »
    I would go with one example for each and make it detailed to make sure it covers all of the competencies they are looking for.

    Great, thanks for that. Now to come up with something strong enough that can be used if called forward to stage 2 is the tricky part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭ Brera


    FenFlynn wrote: »
    Great, thanks for that. Now to come up with something strong enough that can be used if called forward to stage 2 is the tricky part.


    It would be worth checking out the thread on last years AP competition. It has a lot of information and some of the posters there will have plenty of ideas of what points PAS are looking for.

    https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058197595


  • Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭ Vologda69


    I did fairly well in the numerical and verbal for AP 2020 competition. However I failed the situational judgement by 1 mark. I think I was a bit harsh in how I ranked the answers. Any tips on how to approach them this time around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭ Brera


    Vologda69 wrote: »
    I did fairly well in the numerical and verbal for AP 2020 competition. However I failed the situational judgement by 1 mark. I think I was a bit harsh in how I ranked the answers. Any tips on how to approach them this time around.


    I got caught out in the 2020 competition on the management scenario as part of the video interviews by 5 marks. I have more experience this time so I’ll give it a go again.

    I used job test prep the last time and I found it really helpful with the first round of tests.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭ wench


    Rikand wrote: »
    Probably between 100-150 in Co. Cork total if this mobility map is accurate

    https://www.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=83eb12efc9c7478a982d39a89f759663

    100ish in Cork city itself with 34 in revenue. 15 in Ballincollig that I saw and who knows with regard to other places. Have a feeling that the CSO in Cork City must have a good few when there are 180 CO's and 120 EO's even though it doesnt list any.

    Of course, how many of those positions will be vacated and filled from this panel over the course of 2 years.... who knows :)


    The CSO has very few APs, as their Statistican grade is AP equivalent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭ caarp


    Brera wrote: »
    I got caught out in the 2020 competition on the management scenario as part of the video interviews by 5 marks. I have more experience this time so I’ll give it a go again.

    I used job test prep the last time and I found it really helpful with the first round of tests.

    I was caught out in the Leadership part of stage 2 but passed the other competencies. We should compare notes!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 164 ✭✭ Brera


    caarp wrote: »
    I was caught out in the Leadership part of stage 2 but passed the other competencies. We should compare notes!!!

    I’m not sure how I got on with the other parts as it only gave a result for the leadership part - if you failed it they didn’t mark the other sections. :-(


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 BainMarie


    Brera wrote: »
    Regional hubs will work once they kit them out properly and pay for people to run them.

    I’m waiting to see what the union look for. I know they want flexi time restored for everyone. Which I don’t see happening. How could you do it when people are working from home.

    The idea of remote working could be used as an incentive to ‘change working practices’ that way not everyone would not be stuck on a public desk or do they go with giving an allowance for those jobs that can’t be done remotely. It’s going to be interesting to see how it works out.


    For any private sector worker thinking the Civil Service will lead WFH in the future, I have to say I am not impressed with the current arrangement. Due to “local arrangements” your manager can say what they want. I feel pressure to go in despite being unvaccinated because a colleague is going in and being “seen”. Also my colleagues left and retired during the pandemic so I have to go in and onboard new middle management despite being a lower grade. Happened in my last Department too last year. Upper grades treat lower grades like crap in the CS. No credit given. Found myself being left out of important messages after that. Due to failed decentralization in the last decade we are suffering. Also us lower grades had flexi taken away from us during the pandemic. Very unfair, I could be on late one evening for a ministerial briefing and get no time in lieu. I found flexi great as it used to let me build up a half day a month to do something nice with the kids. Had that taken away from me. As the private sector is now becoming much more flexible than the public service. Many private companies have told my neighbors they can work from home down the country permanently now. They have even bought a house.

    I would advise against public service. They are slow to implement positive change and HR in most departments is non-existent. Why waste your time applying for this when you can work from an Italian beach in the private sector for more money! I have been in the public service years now a feel stuck tbh. This is just my advice for those who are able to get opportunities in the private sector. If you have a chance there, take it rather than waste time here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭ LegallyAbroad


    BainMarie wrote: »
    For any private sector worker thinking the Civil Service will lead WFH in the future, I have to say I am not impressed with the current arrangement. Due to “local arrangements” your manager can say what they want. I feel pressure to go in despite being unvaccinated because a colleague is going in and being “seen”. Also my colleagues left and retired during the pandemic so I have to go in and onboard new middle management despite being a lower grade. Happened in my last Department too last year. Upper grades treat lower grades like crap in the CS. No credit given. Found myself being left out of important messages after that. Due to failed decentralization in the last decade we are suffering. Also us lower grades had flexi taken away from us during the pandemic. Very unfair, I could be on late one evening for a ministerial briefing and get no time in lieu. I found flexi great as it used to let me build up a half day a month to do something nice with the kids. Had that taken away from me. As the private sector is now becoming much more flexible than the public service. Many private companies have told my neighbors they can work from home down the country permanently now. They have even bought a house.

    I would advise against public service. They are slow to implement positive change and HR in most departments is non-existent. Why waste your time applying for this when you can work from an Italian beach in the private sector for more money! I have been in the public service years now a feel stuck tbh. This is just my advice for those who are able to get opportunities in the private sector. If you have a chance there, take it rather than waste time here.

    AP grade has never had flexi time.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13 BainMarie


    AP grade has never had flexi time.

    General Council Report No. 1367 back in 2000 extended flexi time to AP grade - on a case by case basis, each department their own rules, etc. The Haddington Road Agreement withdrew the option for all new APs since 2013. (similar to how the old teachers voted to reduce pay for new teachers following the 2008/2009 recession).

    As private becomes more flexible, the public becomes less understanding. Its just my view as the issue was mentioned earlier and the applicant thought the public service would be WFH. Its not guaranteed.


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