No more 4% rent increases

Dav010

Saudades wrote: »

It's a tricky one. Rent review issued before the legislation, but actual increase due after the legislation.

It wouldn't be a surprise to see all '4% rule' rent increases due after the legislation start date becoming void - and altered to the new 'inflation rule' immediately - otherwise there's going to be a massive spike in rent reviews and 4%-8% increase notices served to tenants within the next few days to beat the official legislation start date.

The RTB may be able to shed some light - but they may not know themselves until the full legislation is published - expected by July 9th. The RTB will also have to update their online calculator.

Certainly further advice is needed before any tenant commits to the old '4% rule' increase. It would be nice to get that 8% hike down to a reasonable 1.9%.

If the rent review is legally served prior to the legislation being enacted, it’s hard to see how the new rules would apply retrospective of the date of enactment. The tenant won’t have the option not to “commit” if a valid review is applied under current legislation.

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

If the rent review is legally served prior to the legislation being enacted, it’s hard to see how the new rules would apply retrospective of the date of enactment. The tenant won’t have the option not to “commit” if a valid review is applied under current legislation.

The RTB take fifteen working days to respond to most requested changes so rent review applications submitted in the next week won't be processed on time

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The RTB take fifteen working days to respond to most requested changes so rent review applications submitted in the next week won't be processed on time

What?

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

What?

make any request and thats the automated reply , they blame it on covid

Dav010

Mad_maxx wrote: »

make any request and thats the automated reply , they blame it on covid

What has an application to the RTB got to do with a tenants rent review, apart from the LL having to inform the RTB of the new rate?

Notice of rental increase is served on the tenant, not the RTB, the RTB are informed of new rate so it can be noted on their database for future reference.


“Once a rent review has been carried out and the new rent has commenced the landlord should notify the RTB that the rent amount has changed, via our online facility or by using a Tenancy Update Form.”

Mad_maxx

Dav010 wrote: »

What has an application to the RTB got to do with a tenants rent review, apart from the LL having to inform the RTB of the new rate?

Notice of rental increase is served on the tenant, not the RTB, the RTB are informed of new rate so it can be noted on their database for future reference.


“Once a rent review has been carried out and the new rent has commenced the landlord should notify the RTB that the rent amount has changed, via our online facility or by using a Tenancy Update Form.”

so theoretically the RTB need not be notified about a change in rent for three months after the tenants were notified of a rent review ?


i didnt know that , have not been a private landlord in over four years myself so im a little rusty , house i own is in a long term lease to local authority

Amouar

I also received a notice for rent increase last week, which will take effect in October. Hopefully this legislation will cancel the new rent increase and cap it at the current inflation rate.

Saudades

Dav010 wrote: »

If the rent review is legally served prior to the legislation being enacted, it’s hard to see how the new rules would apply retrospective of the date of enactment. The tenant won’t have the option not to “commit” if a valid review is applied under current legislation.

The tenant's new contract doesn't officially start until September.

Certainly for any tenant in this situation it's well worth a call to the RTB or Threshold or Citizens Information to further investigate and see which side of the fence the law falls on with this.

FileNotFound

Amouar wrote: »

I also received a notice for rent increase last week, which will take effect in October. Hopefully this legislation will cancel the new rent increase and cap it at the current inflation rate.

You'll probably still get hit with last year's 4%.

Be interesting watching this unfold. Be a good few renovations happening when increases cannot apply I'd say.

lawrencesummers

Its possible after this legislation there will be increases to the thresholds allowed by HAP for rental rates, this will take some of the pressure of renters in the HaP scheme as those rates have been in effect for long time and rents have increased without these changing.

The_Conductor

whatnow! wrote: »

My landlord could probably rent my place for €200 more a month or more but I've been a good tenant for a good while so there seemed to be an unspoken agreement to keep the rent lower so I would stay here. I'm in Dublin. This will penalise them when I move out next year and they won't give favourable terms to the next good tenant.

And if you're a good tenant- you don't get any cognisance of you being a good tenant from a future landlord- meanwhile, the tenant backfilling your position gets the benefit of your relationship with the landlord.

It would make a lot of sense to have a reasonable database whereby landlords and tenants could be ascribed a score based on their previous dealings- and both landlord and tenant could choose whether or not to do business with one another- based on other people's previous experiences of doing business with them.

If we have credit scores without apparent GDPR considerations- why can't we have residential relationshop scoring- based on the same principle, whereby prospective tenants or landlords could check one another out.

Ireland seems to go completely nuts anytime GDPR is mentioned- completely and utterly nuts- its not the same in other EU countries- why do we have this particular hangup over GDPR here?

Flinty997

They already know what the rents are through the PRTB and revenue.

agoodpunt

You’ll need the following required documents for renting in Germany:

Your ID or passport.

A Mietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigung—a document to prove you don’t owe previous landlords money. Your potential landlord might not ask for this but it’s best to have it if possible.

Three recent pay slips to prove you’re earning enough to pay the rent. Proof of adequate savings may be accepted.
Bank statements from the last three months.

Mieterselbstauskunft—this is an application form giving the prospective landlord more information about you, such as your date of birth, how many people will live in the property, and what you do for a living.

SCHUFA-Auskunftor Bonitätsauskunft für den Vermieter—a SCHUFA-Auskunft (credit report) shows your prospective landlord your credit score. If you have only just moved to Germany, you won’t yet have a SCHUFA record. In this case, your bank statements showing a regular income and that you’ve paid rent and bills on time could be an acceptable alternative.

FileNotFound

The_Conductor wrote: »

And if you're a good tenant- you don't get any cognisance of you being a good tenant from a future landlord- meanwhile, the tenant backfilling your position gets the benefit of your relationship with the landlord.

It would make a lot of sense to have a reasonable database whereby landlords and tenants could be ascribed a score based on their previous dealings- and both landlord and tenant could choose whether or not to do business with one another- based on other people's previous experiences of doing business with them.

If we have credit scores without apparent GDPR considerations- why can't we have residential relationshop scoring- based on the same principle, whereby prospective tenants or landlords could check one another out.

Ireland seems to go completely nuts anytime GDPR is mentioned- completely and utterly nuts- its not the same in other EU countries- why do we have this particular hangup over GDPR here?

This was one gripe I had with the rent controls at the start. I have rented for years as have most I'm sure, many of my leases were for a few years at a time. During these I have never once been informed of increased rent. I would have been a good tenant who assisted in maintaining the property.

Since the limits came in they seem to have become a goal rather than any control and they do negatively impact the landlord who hasn't raised compared to one who has.

I think the right way to go is tax incentives for better rent prices and higher property taxes where multiple properties are owned.

Flinty997

agoodpunt wrote: »

You’ll need the following required documents for renting in Germany:

Your ID or passport.

A Mietschuldenfreiheitsbescheinigung—a document to prove you don’t owe previous landlords money. Your potential landlord might not ask for this but it’s best to have it if possible.

Three recent pay slips to prove you’re earning enough to pay the rent. Proof of adequate savings may be accepted.
Bank statements from the last three months.

Mieterselbstauskunft—this is an application form giving the prospective landlord more information about you, such as your date of birth, how many people will live in the property, and what you do for a living.

SCHUFA-Auskunftor Bonitätsauskunft für den Vermieter—a SCHUFA-Auskunft (credit report) shows your prospective landlord your credit score. If you have only just moved to Germany, you won’t yet have a SCHUFA record. In this case, your bank statements showing a regular income and that you’ve paid rent and bills on time could be an acceptable alternative.

Just shows how far behind Ireland is when it comes to our rental system.

FileNotFound

Flinty997 wrote: »

Just shows how far behind Ireland is when it comes to our rental system.

Needs an overhaul for the sake of everyone involved for sure.

Some of the stories of non paying tenants in peoples houses for the guts of a year and destroying places are shocking.

To think we are a member of the big organisation (EU) and cannot learn from our neighbors at all.

topdecko

The problem in Ireland and UK is that your house is your store of wealth. Successive policies have exacerbated this. You now have in a particular village in Wales evidence of this where only 2 out of the 50 homes are permanent residences and prices have skyrocket to 5 times the national average so that effectively the average price is 1.3 million and no one actually living in the house..... completely mental.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/30/holiday-homes-in-wales-and-the-housing-crisis

We have to decouple wealth and property. There has to be significant property tax imposed on second properties, even more on third properties etc. The tax breaks for investment companies to take over buildings has to stop it is immoral. We should not have a society where people can have vacant holiday homes and other people do not have a roof over their head. This is a basic function of government and society that is getting worse and not better...

_Brian

About 15 years ago there was a massive movement to demonise all landlords and move society to a position where the thoughts of a landlord actually making profit became a bad thing.

We are seeing landlords selling off houses and locally to us there is crisis in the rental sector, with no homes available.

We have a property rented ourselves and it’s going under the hammer at tue first opportunity, have it rented and while we haven’t given the tenants notice we have indicated the house will be sold. The market is being skewed against landlords to the extent that the risks no longer make financial sense.

topdecko

Landlords can make a profit - just not an exorbitant one. Our parents generation (50 -70) have made a killing. You are selling your house and will make a tidy profit on it no doubt. Rent costing more than a mortgage by some margin is ridiculous and plainly wrong - any system that allows that to happen is broken and needs to change. Unfortunately politicians in their wisdom and as a knee jerk reaction to the financial crash allowed corporate investors in with generous tax breaks and they have hovered up the available properties.
Ireland is a great place to live but younger generation being shafted when it comes to housing

FileNotFound

topdecko wrote: »

Landlords can make a profit - just not an exorbitant one. Our parents generation (50 -70) have made a killing. You are selling your house and will make a tidy profit on it no doubt. Rent costing more than a mortgage by some margin is ridiculous and plainly wrong - any system that allows that to happen is broken and needs to change. Unfortunately politicians in their wisdom and as a knee jerk reaction to the financial crash allowed corporate investors in with generous tax breaks and they have hovered up the available properties.
Ireland is a great place to live but younger generation being shafted when it comes to housing

Only point I will add to this is that most small LL pay 40% tax on rent - so anyone buying an investment in boom or recent times won't be making a profit over paying the mortgage.

Even then the idea of someone almost entirely paying for you second gaff - is literally the definition of helping the rich get richer, while the poor are poorer.

FileNotFound

_Brian wrote: »

About 15 years ago there was a massive movement to demonise all landlords and move society to a position where the thoughts of a landlord actually making profit became a bad thing.

We are seeing landlords selling off houses and locally to us there is crisis in the rental sector, with no homes available.

We have a property rented ourselves and it’s going under the hammer at tue first opportunity, have it rented and while we haven’t given the tenants notice we have indicated the house will be sold. The market is being skewed against landlords to the extent that the risks no longer make financial sense.

Like any investment really - you will have made more from the house in rent and property price rise (Unless you bought height of the boom - even then rent paid to date prob covers any negative equity and some) than you would in most investments.

Hard to feel to sorry for anyone in this position when most cannot afford a home due to the high rents.

GerardKeating

Flinty997 wrote: »

I think you are missing the point. It will increase the supply of housing for those wanting to buy. I'm sure next week they'll introduce another rule preventing rentals from being sold.

Actually one rule they should introduce, if a landlord what's to sell a house with a long standing tenant, the tenant should have the option/right to buy.

FileNotFound

I remember someone giving the idea below as a solution to much of the housing a rental crisis in Ireland.

Create a national housing body - funded by gov but independent so it lasts rather than being run by numpties with no relevant qualifications. One that builds and owns houses for the working folk, but a scheme where houses are essentially rent to buy.

Proof of ability to buy much like a mortgage required to initially gain entry to the system, up to X% (say 60%) of rent paid can be leveraged against the value and reduce property cost when buying it out. I think they mentioned percentage changes with years renting to encourage buy out sooner rather than later.

Seemed like a monster to develop and run but also sounded pretty interesting as a concept.

agoodpunt

topdecko wrote: »

The problem in Ireland and UK is that your house is your store of wealth. Successive policies have exacerbated this. You now have in a particular village in Wales evidence of this where only 2 out of the 50 homes are permanent residences and prices have skyrocket to 5 times the national average so that effectively the average price is 1.3 million and no one actually living in the house..... completely mental.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/30/holiday-homes-in-wales-and-the-housing-crisis

We have to decouple wealth and property. There has to be significant property tax imposed on second properties, even more on third properties etc. The tax breaks for investment companies to take over buildings has to stop it is immoral. We should not have a society where people can have vacant holiday homes and other people do not have a roof over their head. This is a basic function of government and society that is getting worse and not better...

should be the same if you save so what about bank accounts should we strip wealth at a certain age


Houses dont always increase in value if sold tax is 33% on profit and if you dont pay the morgage its reposessed especially if its a buy to let.


Should there be a private rental market supplied by who ?


All rents in ireland are subject to higher taxes in UK & EU.

Topgear on Dave

niallers1 wrote: »

So LL sell up to people who can afford to buy to live in. What about the people who cannot buy/ do not want to buy. Where will they live . Supply / government policy is the issue

They are not regarded as real people.:D

(sarcasm)


Most of the voting public, the media and politicians and generally "the chattering class" already own their own houses and look down upon renters. its all about buying, respectable people gotta get on the ladder.

Topgear on Dave

FileNotFound wrote: »

This was one gripe I had with the rent controls at the start. I have rented for years as have most I'm sure, many of my leases were for a few years at a time. During these I have never once been informed of increased rent. I would have been a good tenant who assisted in maintaining the property.

Since the limits came in they seem to have become a goal rather than any control and they do negatively impact the landlord who hasn't raised compared to one who has.

Same here. I rented for years.

But the politicians seem to want to be seen to do something, anything, it seems to take the heat off them even if it makes the situation worse.

lawrencesummers

GerardKeating wrote: »

Actually one rule they should introduce, if a landlord what's to sell a house with a long standing tenant, the tenant should have the option/right to buy.

The tenant does have the right to buy the place. They can enter the property market just like anyone else and pay whatever the market decides is the price.

lawrencesummers

topdecko wrote: »

The problem in Ireland and UK is that your house is your store of wealth. Successive policies have exacerbated this. You now have in a particular village in Wales evidence of this where only 2 out of the 50 homes are permanent residences and prices have skyrocket to 5 times the national average so that effectively the average price is 1.3 million and no one actually living in the house..... completely mental.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jun/30/holiday-homes-in-wales-and-the-housing-crisis

We have to decouple wealth and property. There has to be significant property tax imposed on second properties, even more on third properties etc. The tax breaks for investment companies to take over buildings has to stop it is immoral. We should not have a society where people can have vacant holiday homes and other people do not have a roof over their head. This is a basic function of government and society that is getting worse and not better...

In theory a large tax on second property sounds fine. In reality a rented second property is already taxed as income therefore the owners pay up to 50% on any income and they pay CGT when selling it. So a persons second or subsequent properties are heavily taxed already, and increasing that burden of tax might only be passed onto the renter.

Some people have been able to buy holiday homes, if you turned every holiday home into a social house you wouldn’t solve anything. The housing crisis is in urban centers, holiday homes are in rural areas.

Amadan Dubh

Flinty997 wrote: »

Just shows how far behind Ireland is when it comes to our rental system.

I agree and to add;

In Germany once you take on a lease you are given a whitewashed apartment to decorate how you want, with little intrusion possible from the landlord. Leases can last as long as you need them but you always have a fallback of being able to give notice to move out, you aren't forced to stay anywhere. I understand that you pay at the end of the month as well for your rent so only need to put up the deposit before you move in.

Importantly, as well, rents are probably 40% cheaper in Germany than Dublin with purchasing power 30% higher. We should really be looking to emulate Germany with our rental market including the cost. It is not as if salaries are higher in Ireland than Germany so there is little justification to allow our rental market keep growing into a bubble!

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Ireland&country2=Germany&city1=Dublin&city2=Hamburg&tracking=getDispatchComparison

Claw Hammer

GerardKeating wrote: »

Actually one rule they should introduce, if a landlord what's to sell a house with a long standing tenant, the tenant should have the option/right to buy.

The tenant can always offer to buy the house and if they are the highest bidder they will likely succeed. Surely you are not suggesting the tenat should get a discount?
During the hey-day of rent control in Ireland from 1917 to 1970, most single people had to live in digs, unless well off most families had to live in council house and whilst waiting for a council house had to live in digs or else in a tenement. Rent control always has and always will produced a few winners living on cheap rents and a lot of losers.