Mica Redress

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118302774#Comment_118302774

Can I remind you of what you've said yourself.

"this is primarily a Donegal issue (although some other counties may be affected in small numbers)"

And

"if this was happening in Dublin it would have been addresses years ago"

You can't have your cake and eat it. It can't be Donegal is getting neglected, and not primarily a Donegal problem.

A feature of Mica advocates is a lack of any sense to their case. They literally just throw whatever statements they vaguely feel fit the moment, without any attempt at consistency or sense.

VillageIdiot71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118304303#Comment_118304303

Well said. I'd suggest essential features of government's response here have to be:

1. This is absolutely not the taxpayers fault, and this is not a compensation scheme; whatever assistance is given is simply the State looking after some citizens who are in an unfortunate situation.
2. Costs have to make sense; in other words, the taxpayer should never pay more to repair a house than it would cost to offer alternative accommodation.
3. The purpose of the scheme is simply to make homes liveable in, not to preserve property values (which actually seems to be the over-riding consideration here)

There was a recent IT article (possibly linked to this thread) that, if accurate, seemed to depict parts of Donegal going bonkers around the issue - posters up in the local school, people walking around with "100%" T-Shirts. It's possible that kind of cultural immersion in the issue is making it hard for folk to keep a sense of proportion. But, to be clear, there's folk living in unsaleable pyrite houses that aren't deemed so seriously compromised as to be worthy of remediation. And, I'd suggest, if someone told you "this was a pyrite house, but its all fixed", you'd still run a mile from it. The pyrite scheme that Mica advocates are so fond of isn't a compensation scheme, either.

And if someone is genuinely afraid that their house is going to collapse any minute, they should vacate it right now. It that's genuinely the situation. If your house was on fire, you wouldn't sit down on the sofa with a beer and say "Council fire service had better sort that out pronto, and give me alternative accommodation while they do".

I sincerely hope the internet helps by exposing some to alternative points of view.

Rodar08

You’re really horrible people. I have an answer for every single point that each of you have made but I couldn’t be arsed. You’re just total dickheads and if that remark gets me banned from this thread then it’s all for luck because my mental health can’t handle the sheer lowlife mindset of my so called fellow country men and women. You disgust me.

Excuse me for working hard my whole life to date to purchase and pay for my own SEMI DETACHED home that has now been recommended to be fully demolished. 15 years I’ve worked for this. The only thing I can offer my children when I die. I’ve 110k left of a mortgage to pay for years and years more. Our children are very young. This house is being stolen from them. You think I’m going to allow their inheritance and their family home to be stolen from them??? You think I’m going to sink us in to financial ruin and poverty because of other peoples greed and corruption???

Don’t you bet your rental home on it for a second. Not a chance in the universe will I allow my childrens lives to be ruined over NO FAULT of mine or theirs. Not a HOPE!!!!!

The government didn’t regulate the industry. They still are not regulating it. The quarry in question is still operating!! Even to supply the local authorities. They’ve had no sanctions. The insurance crowds and banks are allowed to say, “not my problem” and the builders and tradesmen could never have known their was a problem at the time of building as the blocks don’t begin to deteriorate until years after they are laid. I am a tax payer just like you except I don’t get the luxury of the gas and rail and fast internet that I pay for, FOR YOU!!! And have paid it all my working life! How dare you!

You all sound to me like you haven’t an actual notion what it’s like to work hard for what you’ve got and have it all stolen right from you. You probably don’t even own a house otherwise you’d understand even a little. I’ve been on boards.ie for 12/14 years. I’ve come across some of you before and I am shocked and I am sick in my stomach at the lack of empathy and the level of hatred towards your fellow citizens. If you were in my situation - I’d hope you were helped. I bet you said nothing when the banks were bailed out.

it’s easy to attack homeowners on boards isn’t it it’s pretty anonymous really .. and it’s pretty cowardly. A true example of a bully hiding behind a screen. If you had even tried to look in to this scandal a bit more you’d come across much differently but here you are. You are the smart ones who have all the maths done and we are greedy, unreasonable, blinded by the wave of mania that has come over Donegal spongers. Is that it? Do I have that right?

The bottom line is you have zero understanding of this massive, complex scandal but you see fit to fire abuse us and direct your anger at the HOMEOWNERS? You’re one special kind of human. The prick kind.

MrMusician18

I don't think anyone has abused the homeowners here to be fair. Everyone has an awful lot of sympathy for what you are going through. No one hates you.

The issue is that the promises the campaign have made are simply unrealistic and no government can afford to honour them. The campaign needs to recognise that a compromise is always the end result of negotiations and prepare people for that reality. 100% for rebuilds was always unattainable.

Lastly, the government only have a moral obligation here to assist homeowners making their home safe and nothing more. Inheritances, property value and the like are not issues for government to solve.

I am fully aware that these aren't the things homeowners want to hear, but this is the reality sadly.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308043#Comment_118308043

Well perhaps if OUR government hadn't given 100% to fix houses in other parts of the country there might be an argument.

Rodar08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308043#Comment_118308043

Sorry mrmusician18 but the fact is - these things ARE a reality. I have paid for my childrens inheritance and a fully resealable house and the government messed up - not me!! If you get any dodgy product you don’t get half a product returned. So I’m sorry to tell you that unfortunately - they do owe us all that. Every single bit of it. Not just a “safe place”. And I bet they won’t mess up like this again. A good lesson learned for them and their cronies

They can’t afford it? Don’t break my heart. They’ll have to do like the rest of us - work hard and pay what you owe. Maybe the EU will help, maybe they’ll get the insurance companies to cough up, maybe they’ll recoup some from the defective block manufacturer I dunno 🤷🏼‍♀️ - not my problem. But do you see now? How they DO have an obligation to replace fully what they’ve swiped? Good. So go and fight with the government about how they’re going to recoup us tax payers money instead of sitting on boards reducing homeowners to free loaders looking for handouts. Have a blessed Sunday!

And yes, homeowners are being abused. We are being targeted. On FB, Twitter and now as I’ve heartbreakingly discovered, boards too. It is unbelievable how much and how badly we are being attacked. Maybe take 3 minutes to imagine you were a homeowner right now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308253#Comment_118308253

Taxpayers been asked to cover an "inheritance" now. Think their should be a clawback claus for the state in any redress scheme after the homeowner passes

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308312#Comment_118308312

Okay. We can start by going back and now telling the people who had their homes sorted under the pyrite scheme they won't own their homes after they are gone. See how this goes before making new rules for different people. Or should they be different rules for different people.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308363#Comment_118308363

Agree its an anomaly that should have been addressed at the time with those schemes, but its an error that should not be continued in perpetuity. The current mica scheme does not have a clawback for example

Rodar08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308312#Comment_118308312

Chocolateice a bit of common sense. If my house gets restored to what I thought I bought on day one 15 years ago without this non regulating government slacking off on their jobs and no corrupt interference and backhanders - if I get what I thought I paid for on day one let’s say - then that automatically ensures my childrens inheritance obviously.

You see you’ve made my case for me now. This is what I mean by the homeowners being abused and targeted. You are making out like I want extra to give my children inheritance. No, when I get back what was mine to begin with, then my children's inheritance will be fully restored automatically. It’s not an extra. It’s what we originally purchased. It was ours to begin with. The whole package.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308414#Comment_118308414

The problem here is that the precedent has been set. All the homeowners want is to be treated the same as the homeowners that have had their homes reinstated due to pyrite.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308470#Comment_118308470

If your house is restored by the taxpaper. You live your whole life there and raise your family too, i can see no problem in your death(and spouses too) the house then been sold and the proceeds going into general taxation or even a fund to protect future homeowners. I dont see how it is fair for your heirs to benefit handsomely in future from an inheritance when the state/taxpayer stepped up earlier. Its very nice to leave something substanstantial for your children but not at the expense of your fellow taxpayers

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308253#Comment_118308253

You seem to be implying that the State will be spending "its own money" on this remediation project. You are aware that the State is just a redistribution mechanism for our, ordinary citizens taxes, it can't "work harder" as you put it. And I don't see why European taxpayers should be asked to help either.

If you get a dodgy product, you don't get half in return from the State, normally you get nothing at all. Normally you get compensated by the person who sold it to you, who in turn get compensated by the company that sold it to them. As you see, nowhere is the State involved in this transaction. Regulators are not liable for those that break the regulations, ever. The only reason the State is helping here is because it has a moral responsibility to help out citizens who could find themselves living in unsafe structures. This responsibility only extends to assisting with the means for the homeowners to repair these buildings. It has absolutely no obligation to ensure salability or inheritances. I am fully aware that this isn't palatable to read after investing tens of thousands of euro and years into a home but sadly it's the truth. There is no point shying away from it and no one gets any pleasure from saying it.

No one is abusing the homeowners here. The only abuse on these pages are your own posts. If you don't want to read diverging opinion and actual debate, you might find yourself more at home on the other thread tbh.

Dempo1

I'm intrigued at all the talk about Mortgages being paid, inheritance, values on these affected properties. I emphasise, I'm for redress as long as common sense prevails.

It astonishs me that not only were mortgages being paid on these clearly defective properties, how were mortgages even enforceable after the defects were discovered. Furthermore, given the asset /Property values were essentially ZERO, why did people continue to discharge mortgages. The simple answer may be that Repossession was a possibility, I suggest there's not a Bank in Ireland would have even waste the time and expense going down that Road.

It's perhaps easy to say people could have just walked away and I appreciate that a very difficult thing to do but equally paying for something that is essentially worthless in some cases for almost 20 years just seems Bizzare and extraordinary albeit no doubt a lot had to do with were would people go.

I'd be curious to know, did anyone walk away, Did any Repossessions take place, were any deals struck re negative equity and more importantly were are the Banks/Mortgage providers in all of this debacle.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308658#Comment_118308658

I suspect there are multiple reasons why people didn't stop paying. 1) They gave their word to pay back what they borrowed. 2) They may have other assets such as a family farm that the bank could take 3) Defaulting would exclude them from obtaining future lending, such as the new mortgage they would need if they walked away 4) They would likely be excluded from any remediation scheme and 5) sunk cost fallacy, it's very hard to walk away from something you've invested years and many thousands of euro with nothing in the end.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308658#Comment_118308658

And you walk away with your wife and kids to where. Where do you go, where do your belongings go. In this case where would you have gone when you walked out of your home.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308686#Comment_118308686

As I've said , not an easy thing to do but either is paying a full mortgage on a property for 20 years that essentially, was and remains worthless. My main question relates to were any deals done, how was a mortgage on these properties enforceable .

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308682#Comment_118308682

Very good points and off course all logical. It just strikes me that these home owners were in a very strong position collectively to boycott paying mortgages , if anything to address the shocking devaluation of these properties.

We hear numerous examples of Negative equity deals being done on restructures, 100's of thousands wipe off values, mortgage liabilities etc. I'm primarily curious why wasn't this approach taken, was it, were there any deals etc.

malinheader

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308729#Comment_118308729

In my experience any deals done with banks are usually in the banks favour never the lender. People had to hold on as if they walked they would never be able to build or buy a house again unless they had the full money available. That Is why the mental strain on these families is so serious. Holding on for an appropriate resolution but still undoable proposals for most still being in place.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308754#Comment_118308754

Very fair observation 😏

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308658#Comment_118308658

It has already happened. Repossession and sold for less than site value.

The 100% Redress facebook group is public for anyone who wants to look past the "blank check for everyone" nonsense in this thread.

The blank check for the woman in question must have got lost in the post.

NIMAN

Remember too that some of these houses may be built on family owned land, and that would tie in with the unwillingness to hand the keys back to the bank.

Plus, handing the keys back to the bank isn't really a thing. You will still be chased for the debt, and good luck ever trying to recover your good credit history. You will be blacklisted for life, for something that wasn't your fault.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308789#Comment_118308789

I don't do Facebook

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308799#Comment_118308799

I hadn't considered that point re family land etc 😏

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308805#Comment_118308805

It's public. You dont need a facebook account to view it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/297785338568131

If you are saying you refuse to view anthing on facebook at all then fair enough.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308837#Comment_118308837

Apologies, I didn't see the public view option, I avoid Facebook generally but will take a look , thanks 👍

Rodar08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308598#Comment_118308598

Please explain to me how you feel the government are under no obligation to restore fully what we worked hard for when they are to blame for allowing the industry to flout the rules and standards??? How do you reasonably come to that conclusion?

When the state use MY tax money to restore the houses they caused to disintegrate then I expect them to recoup this money from the rest of the culprits by enforcing the law on the manufacturer’s, the insurance companies who threw their hands up, homeboys who walked away and so on. For any of the homeowners to pay in ANY way is more unfair and more scandalous. For you you say we are being unreasonable and unrealistic well, as I said before, it looks like you don’t understand the complexities of the issue. I want what I paid for. No less!!

LawBoy2018

I think it's funny how the Mica campaigners seem to be fully certain that the State is at fault for the defective blocks, yet not one of them (to the best of my knowledge) has initiated legal proceedings against the State. People aren't stupid + it's all becoming quite tiresome at this stage.

Nobody is entitled to anything in this life, some of us had to learn that the hard way. If you won't settle for what you're being offered, then take it or leave it. Donegal people contribute less tax per capita than any other county in Ireland, yet these people want "100% redress" i.e. a blank cheque.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/revealed-which-countys-residents-pay-the-most-tax-and-which-pay-the-least-36653502.html

I also laughed at the above poster's comment about his children's inheritance... Why are your children entitled to an inheritance at the cost of every single taxpayer in this country? Maybe they should go to work and earn a living like the rest of us.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308945#Comment_118308945

There also seems to be a general vagueness about how or why the state was actually at fault for the defective blocks.

It would be great if someone could explain specifically what State failure was involved.

LawBoy2018

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118309035#Comment_118309035

Cue the tiresome "The Gov failed to regulate Cassidy's blah blah...." Yawn