Civil Service - Post Lockdown - Blended Working?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095460#Comment_119095460

If I was paid by the concept of "time on the clock", they'd owe me literally thousands of euro for all the unpaid hours I worked during the last two years alone.

🙄

Gusser09

Im thinking itll be 3% up front with 4-5% to follow over 3 years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095454#Comment_119095454

I have to agree. I too have been around for strikes and all I found was that they hardened public opinion against us.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095723#Comment_119095723

I was on the cpsu picket when the pesu and everyone else walked by it. It really achieves nothing other than leaving you further out of pocket. Stay at the table no matter how frustrating it is.

caviardreams

Some people in this thread want it both ways and it won't work

On one side:

Its about the job getting done and not the specific hours worked e.g. you should be able to nip out to drop kids off if the job is on track - personally I agree with this completely but staff need to be transparent about talking about work and output and not defensive if asked about progress on things

On the other:

Wanting flexi back where every second of the day is counted

They aren't really compatible imo - as if people are nipping out to get kids and do bits of housework, they can't be building up flexi time for extra leave in fairness - so it's one or the other, but not both.

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095723#Comment_119095723

Agree and 1 day strikes are pretty useless other than saving the Government a bit of salary.

Civil service unions still do yield power - the perception of a long strike is something the Government would wish to avoid. However. many civil servants are very dedicated and would not want the damage of a long strike.

Targeted strikes/work to rules in certain functions would be effective but far less effective than they would have been 30 years ago due to automation etc.

The bottom line is that the official side are in a better negotiating position but they will want to get a deal and move on. The challenge for the unions is to manage expectations of members - anyone with a bit of sense will know that pushing for higher wage increases will ultimately back fire on the economy and the civil servants as happened in the noughties.

My expectation is that there will be a belt tightening exercise in the e next couple of years as spending is getting out of control.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095460#Comment_119095460

Don't know about you but I don't work for free here in the private sector.

I make sure I get paid for every minute or get time in lieu agreed by email that day or what ever needs doing gets done the next day during my contracted working hours

Sultan of Bling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095737#Comment_119095737

Work to rule is far more effective than striking imo.

jaffa20

Is it only the accrual of flexi leave that is suspended? I thought you are still entitled to flexi time as long as you average your working hours at 7 hours 24mins per day. For me, as long as i have that, the accrual of flexi time is not that important if we get to keep WFH days.

An Ri rua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119094056#Comment_119094056

Perhaps it's time for unions to place a notional value on commuting time and a nominal value on commuting costs. Now that WFH has been proven to work for the employer and obviously so many in civil and public service (the evidence-base is solid), all costs should be laid on the table. Peoples' eyes have been opened. Let the dinosaurs retire and the rest of us get on with shaping a new world.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096467#Comment_119096467

Yes, that's correct.

Personally if it was the dealbreaker, I too would be happy to forgo the ability to accrue flexi leave, but I understand to others its important.

Our target hours per day will be reduced to its former pre-HRA 6:57 (excluding lunch) from July as well.

My dept has said they are supportive of all having the ability to accrue flexi leave, while both WFH and WFO but we'll have to see what the proposed pilots will bring about.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096508#Comment_119096508

Yeh this is it. In my dept. Its mainly been sec gen,assistant sec gen, and the directors wanting people back. In fact i think they never wanted full wfh even during the pandemic.

Whatever about the payrises etc i think the WFH thing if not handled correctly could be a tipping point for IR.

skidmarkoner

Congratulations on the new job

lightspeed

Can anybody confirm how long service increments work and how they are applied?

Im about to take a HEO position but not sure how much of pay cut is worth taking the job?

I see on forsa website the pay starts at €50,848 and after 3 years it looks like I will be on €55,300.

However, my understanding of LS1 is that it is after 3 years of service and LS2 after 6 years.

LS1 is €61,899 so will I be on this salary after 3 years or €55,300?

wench

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099298#Comment_119099298

The long service applies after 3 years at the normal max of the scale.

So after 6 years you reach 59,756 which is the max, you stay there for 3 years, then get LS1, after a further 3 you get LS2

Sultan of Bling

LS1 is 3 years after you reach the top of the HEO scale. Then it's another 3 years until you reach LS2.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095291#Comment_119095291

Benchmarking was totally political.

Teachers kicked up murder and got 15%.

As usual, civil service unions folded like a cheap suit and got far less than they should have.

Irrelevant now as benchmarking has long since been reversed (but is still used by the usual suspects to beat us).

I voted against the 1% deal, I thought it was complete bullshit and it has proven to be complete bullshit.

My pay has been slashed. There is no justification for this. Taxes increase in line with inflation, there is no justification for not increasing public sector pay in line with inflation.

I was a delegate at numerous PSEU national conferences. I thought the PSEU was crap but Forsa is far worse! Useless shower of cnuts and we're even further removed from the centre of power than we were. They only care about the health service and don't give a shít about civil servants.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095476#Comment_119095476

I can't remember the last time I got my legally mandated breaks. I think it was when I was a CA in the 90s.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119096508#Comment_119096508

I don't want WFH used as an argument against proper pay though.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099480#Comment_119099480

Who stops you taking them?

Hotblack Desiato

Pressure of work.

When I was a CA the pay was totally crap and you got treated like you were in school, BUT it was crystal clear what we were expected to do and we did that and not one bit more. You took every second of breaks, etc. CPSU later totally shafted male CAs who didn't get the paperkeeper settlement. They actually sent me an email saying I could not be sexually discriminated against because I was male (even though I ended up being paid less than females doing the exact same role). Wish I'd saved that.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099585#Comment_119099585

Lol.

Take your breaks. Switch everything off when you clock out. Disconnect when on leave. The work will be there when you get back.

Hotblack Desiato

Aye it'll still be there along with a lot more and there's no-one else to do it

Gusser09

I work with people like you. They think the dept will cease to operate without them. Usually the ones who always talk about the amount of work they do.

Seriously. Relax. Things will get done. Switch off when you have to.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119095307#Comment_119095307

Our unions keep telling us why it's a bad idea to go on strike, but an all-out civil service strike would cause the government to cave in within a week.

HartsHat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099673#Comment_119099673

How many civil service unions are there? Would it be easy to get them all to agree?

I went to a CPSU delegate conference once. Must be at least 30 years ago. All I remember is it was a huge pissup and being so hung over at the conference the next day, I just stuck my hand up in the air whenever one of the other delegates elbowed me to vote.

lightspeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099319#Comment_119099319

Thanks

It's rather surprising that you stay stuck on €59,756 with no increase for 3 years. So LS2 then similarly has break of 6 years before I reach it. So if I take this position which starts at €50,848 it would be 15 years unless I'm promoted before I'm on €64,038?

That seems very poor. I'm trying to calculate I'd the Public sector pension so much better that to match it as a PAYE worker, would I have to contribute so much that it even out and public sector salary above not as bad as it seems?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119100060#Comment_119100060

You'll get any % increases from pay negotiations, but yep, that's how it works.

Annual increment (performance related) until you hit the top of the scale. 3 years later, LSI 1 and after 3 years on LSI 1, you go to LSI 2.

After that, its increases under pay agreements, or on promotion only.

Despite common misconceptions, "annual increments" aren't endless in the civil service.

if you want promotion for 15 years amd work towards it and dont get it, i dunno would i argue you can complain about only getting 14k improvement in pay (plus whatever general changes to that grade structure in that time)

if you think civil servants are underpaid at HEO level (and below) Id agree!