Camouflage Paint

Bog Trotter99

Fancy spraying my shotgun with this. Anybody got any recommendations for the best paint and where to buy?

Found some online for Airsoft but not sure if it is good stuff and permanent. I want to do this properly and once only.

Grizzly 45

Would you not be better off getting it cera or dura coated?
It's a much better job and is baked on rather than just rattle canned on.Seen some jobs done here by our friend gunhappy.ie and it is indisigunishible from a factory blued finish if you want to go that route.
You can get DIY kits as well for Duracoat or Cerakote from Brownells Germany.So long as you can get all the parts into an oven.

If you still want to cheapskate it, I'd go to a motor factors and look for high temp exhaust manifold paint. It's a much tougher paint designed to withstand high manifold temps, and there are a few different colours as well.They can be a lot duller as well than their advertised colours which may be of help. But make sure you want to do this as they will not come off unless you literally burn them off.

Bog Trotter99

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Would you not be better off getting it cera or dura coated?
It's a much better job and is baked on rather than just rattle canned on.Seen some jobs done here by our friend gunhappy.ie and it is indisigunishible from a factory blued finish if you want to go that route.
You can get DIY kits as well for Duracoat or Cerakote from Brownells Germany.So long as you can get all the parts into an oven.

If you still want to cheapskate it, I'd go to a motor factors and look for high temp exhaust manifold paint. It's a much tougher paint designed to withstand high manifold temps, and there are a few different colours as well.They can be a lot duller as well than their advertised colours which may be of help. But make sure you want to do this as they will not come off unless you literally burn them off.

Actually Grizzly I have a friend who has a spray booth for cars. I could ask him if he would cook it a little for me do you think.

The secret to making paint stick is to remove all contaminates and give it a key. So rub it down to scratch the surface the more the better. some youtube vids do not even bother with that.

Will look up Gunhappy.ie.

Cheers.

J.R.

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Will look up Gunhappy.ie.

http://www.smallarmsservices.ie/


FACEBOOK:

Grizzly 45

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Actually Grizzly I have a friend who has a spray booth for cars. I could ask him if he would cook it a little for me do you think.

The secret to making paint stick is to remove all contaminates and give it a key. So rub it down to scratch the surface the more the better. some youtube vids do not even bother with that.

Will look up Gunhappy.ie.

Cheers.

Dont think a spray booth would be hot enough. You need oven temps to do this right 200 degrees plus.
Yeah,prep is 90% of the battle alright.However to cera or dura coat,you are almost operating theatre level of cleanliness with the parts.Its a total gun stripdown to the last nut and bolt, acetone the spotless parts,etc.its quite a bit of work.So something I'd rather pay a pro who has the tools and facilities to do the job right than bodging it myself...Mans gotta know his limitations.:)

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Dont think a spray booth would be hot enough. You need oven temps to do this right 200 degrees plus.

^ This 100%


A spray booth will only do paint. It could be a hard wearing, with clear mat top coat, top of the range paint. But its still just paint and will chip.

Duracoat is an cured enamel. Better than solvent based paint, but still a type of paint.

Cerakote is a ceramic coat. Much harder, and it's also much thinner. So preserves the details much better.

Bog Trotter99

Mellor wrote: »

^ This 100%


A spray booth will only do paint. It could be a hard wearing, with clear mat top coat, top of the range paint. But its still just paint and will chip.

Duracoat is an cured enamel. Better than solvent based paint, but still a type of paint.

Cerakote is a ceramic coat. Much harder, and it's also much thinner. So preserves the details much better.

As someone with engineering background and some metallurgy study I have to ask ....why?

Enameling of metal is basically the melting of glass onto metal. This was done for specific reasons. Guns have never required this or as far as I can work out would ever benefit from this.

The only thing off hand I can remember that is enameled besides jewelry was the old style and even new kitchenware and ceramic mugs. The mugs always chipped and the kitchenware is to go in the oven as roasting tins and be non-stick. They also chip.....and quite easily. With just a tap sometimes.

Why does a gun need this? The glass enamel isnt stronger than the metal barrel. So the only protection it can give is from water of which a wipe of oil can do the same.........or paint.

Also only the gun barrel and mechanism can be subjected to this heat. A scope and stock and other parts can't have anywhere near this kind of heat applied to them. So all this in my case is defeating what my aim was.

Mellor

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

As someone with engineering background and some metallurgy study I have to ask ....why?

Can you clarify. "Why" what exactly?
You said in the OP you want to paint your gun. I can think of a few reasons why. But really, the why is your choice.

If you mean why cerakote. Because it's a superior finish.
Depends if you want to pay the money to do it right, or are happy to DIY and maybe need to touch up in a few years.

Enameling of metal is basically the melting of glass onto metal.

No, that's vitreous enamel. Not the same thing.

The only thing off hand I can remember that is enameled besides jewelry was the old style and even new kitchenware and ceramic mugs. The mugs always chipped and the kitchenware is to go in the oven as roasting tins and be non-stick. They also chip.....and quite easily. With just a tap sometimes.

Again, that's vitreous enamel. The decorative stuff is usually fragile.
The protective stuff is very strong though. An old style metal bath tub was vitreous enamel and very tough.

The above refers to enamel paint, not vitrous enamel.
Car paint is often enamel. Do you have painted door frames in your house. They are most likely enamel paint (or should be).

Why does a gun need this? The glass enamel isnt stronger than the metal barrel. So the only protection it can give is from water of which a wipe of oil can do the same.........or paint.

The last line is confusing. It is paint.
I'm not sure where, but you are mixed up with something.
You want to make the firearm a camo colour, so you need apply something. I'm not sure where being stronger than the barrel comes into it.


If you use basic spray paint, from a hardware or paint store. It's likely to be an acrylic solvent based paint. This are not very hard wearing and will wear quickly in use, as seen by anyone who has ever sprayed anything at home.

If you used a car spray, or a high grade or spray paint. It's likely to be an enamel paint or equivalent. This is going to be harder. But still paint.

Duracoat is a cured enamel paint. There are multiple versions. Some are air cured, some are heat cured (in the oven). They make specific firearms kits. I'm be pretty confident that they know what they are doing. This is a paint specific for the joke.
The air cured version are spray on. Popular for DIY jobs. They also supply camp stencils.

Cerakote is a ceramic finish. Typical oven cured, but I believe there is an air version too. It's much harder and thinner than acrylic or enamel paint finishes. This means it's better wearing, and allows more detail. Imagine paint over a fine engraving with wall paint, it fills in the details. All coatings will to a degree. So the thinner the more it preserves.

Cerakote is typically used for top of the range barbells. You can see here how the coating barely fills the knurling. This is a professionally applied finish, not something that is easy to DIY afaik.

Also only the gun barrel and mechanism can be subjected to this heat. A scope and stock and other parts can't have anywhere near this kind of heat applied to them. So all this in my case is defeating what my aim was.

Nope.
Both can be applied to the stock and other non metallic parts.

Bog Trotter99

Right Mellor first of all I never implied at all that any one doesnt know what they are doing. I have no knowledge of the people involved and I am not going down that route.

My ....'why'..............Is ....why would you want this process applied to your gun? As regards toughness you wont find any paint or enamel that is tougher than carbon or stainless steel. You may dent and scratch the surface of these metals but that is the most you will do unless you run over them with your car....that has actually happened.:)

So back on track. The reason to paint my gun was just for cosmetic purposes. Thats all. So I will stand out more as an even bigger knobhead.

Grizzly 45

RUST....is the simple answer.[The greatest enemy of guns apart from politicians]
It's again a military spinoff...or vice versa.
Blueing won't last under intense usage, neither will anodising finishes as found on the AR. There are pics out there of AR lowers being eaten thru in various armies where soldiers have [incorrectly] gripped them on the mag wells and just body sweat and humidity in jungle environments have literally eaten thru the mag well.

Stainless steel while salt resistant, will not survive constant saltwater immersion either.
Thats according to theUS armed forces studies into this.
The only thing they have found that will hold up to high abuse environments and elements are these Dura coat finishes.[Am using Dura to mean both types of coats here for convenience]
It might be overkill,but then again,why not on a civvie gun?:P

You are right that scopes wont survive this treatment.BUT the scope shouldn't be subjected to that kind of abuse even in a military situation.No sniper worth his salt is going to chuck his rifle in the muck or use the scope as a beer bottle opener,or carry it by the scope either.Scopes need a different level of toughness in surviving knocks and drops,and when they are painted are mostly done in rattle can to match the local cammo.:)

Bog Trotter99

I think my Remmy 870 will prefer just some good camo paint Grizzly. I like life uncomplicated and simple like myself. Besides I will probably still miss no matter what colour it is.

Grizzly 45

Whatever ya want yourself...:)

Mellor

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

Right Mellor first of all I never implied at all that any one doesnt know what they are doing. I have no knowledge of the people involved and I am not going down that route.

What are you talking about? You've completely lost me there.

My ....'why'..............Is ....why would you want this process applied to your gun?

The dura/cera coats? Because they are superior finishes made for purpose.

Same as if you were refinishing a car. You'd use an automotive paint. Not a tin of dulux.

As regards toughness you wont find any paint or enamel that is tougher than carbon or stainless steel. You may dent and scratch the surface of these metals but that is the most you will do unless you run over them with your car....that has actually happened.:)

I don't see how that relevant.
A hard wearing finish is in order to provide a durable finish, not to protect the metal.

So back on track. The reason to paint my gun was just for cosmetic purposes. Thats all. So I will stand out more as an even bigger knobhead.

And presumably you want a finish that is somewhat permanent. Not one that will wear off in your hands over a season.

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

I think my Remmy 870 will prefer just some good camo paint Grizzly. I like life uncomplicated and simple like myself. Besides I will probably still miss no matter what colour it is.

The spray on duracoat is enamel paint as I mentioned above.

Here's a quick DIY guide. I don't think it is as much hassle as it sounds.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gear-review-duracoat-easyway-acu-camo-kit/

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

You are right that scopes wont survive this treatment.

I've no experience of doing this to a scope myself. But I've seen pictures of scopes with both cerakote and duracoat.



Cerakote







Durakote

Gatling

The Airsoft stuff is just krylon(military) ,ok for Matt dusty finishes you can do yourself with ease but it's not permanent is come off easily enough,

Feisar

I’ve nothing much to add apart from weight up the costs properly between a DIY job and a pro job. By the time you buy three tins of spray paint, get yerself sorted with something to make a camo pattern you might not be to far away from the cost of a pro job.
For example herself wanted a few planters for flowers/herbs. Hard got at the moment so I said I’d make them up. By the time I got so treated timber, decking screws and a handsaw I’d have bought them cheaper if they were available.

Edit - just thought of one of those hydro dip jobs. Isn’t there an air soft place doing that in Dublin?

clivej

I've seen it where ppl have used leaves from trees, evergreen pine branches, etc. for the patern.
Spray the first coat, the base coat, say dark green. Then cover the stock with the pattern and over spray with a light green.
Where the pattern was will still be the darker colour.
Or but some stencils for the pattern you want.


fernoakgun.jpg

Grizzly 45

Mellor wrote: »

I've no experience of doing this to a scope myself. But I've seen pictures of scopes with both cerakote and duracoat.



Cerakote







Durakote

Id ASSume those finishes were applied by the scope makers themselves,on a custom request or contract?Taking a gun apart is one thing ,taking a precision optical instrument apart and baking on a finish at high temp is another.

clivej

Or get it Air Brushed like this 10/22.






FB_IMG_1624968372896.jpg

FB_IMG_1624968377456.jpg

garv123

Plasti dip paint.. no prep work needed and can be removed without doing damage if you change your mind.

Ive done my .22 along with numerous alloys and dechroming bits on the 4x4.

Mellor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Id ASSume those finishes were applied by the scope makers themselves,on a custom request or contract?Taking a gun apart is one thing ,taking a precision optical instrument apart and baking on a finish at high temp is another.

Nope. All fter market sprayjobs.
One is professional set up (multiples). One is a DIY. Not sure about the other.

Scope isn't required to be taken apart either. If you look at the third one, so can see that they didn't even take the mount rings off the scope (the pattern runs across both).

Also, ceracote cures under hear, but not a high temp. From memory its 100-120 deg.
The last one is duracoat spray on, no heat.

Mach Two

How can I get a photograph of something on a timber stock?

J.R.

more here - another on Facebook in Ireland

gunhappy_ie

For sh!ts n giggles ill jump in here

I have both DurCoat and Cerakote Refinishers courses done.

My .02 cents.

Ive used spray cans on air soft projects (sons toys etc) and from what ive seen it tends tends to not have the adhesion, wear or chemical resistance to flake off.

Depending on the Series of Cerakote is is either a 1 part Air Cure or a 2 part oven cure. Air cure Cerakote is not as strong as the oven cure as it it designed for high heat applications. I would avoid using Air cure on anything that does not operate past 250-300 C. Oven Cure is a very meticulous prep (failure to correctly prep will leading to coating failure) Heat sensitive parts can get damaged in the oven baking for 2 hours at 65-82 C ....... Once cured it is very tough and very chemical resistant. Not only will acetone not remove Cerakote but once cured Cerakote will not stick to itself (ask me how i know !!!) if you missed a part, want to correct anything etc...... it will require starting again

DuraCoat is a firearms specific Coating, it is a 2 part urethane paint that in standard form will go to 250-300 C (if I remember correctly) this is more than enough for suppressors. It does also come in a high heat application however like Cerakote if parts do not operate at elevated there is no need for it and I have never had a need for it on firearms here in Ireland.

DuraCoat is an air cure product that parts can be assembled in 24-48 hours and used. Full cure in not for 30 days but it makes little difference (generally when you get a brand new gun back people tend to mind it) DuraCoat do not recommend extreme use for the 30 days but you have to remember: Everyone and there Aunt in the US has an AR 15 to do mag dumps with !!! That heat will strip Cerakote, DurCoat, Rattle cans.

DuraCoat sprays just as thin as Cerakote but to be honest both can be sprayed so thin that they offer limited corrosion resistance. While Acetone will remove DuraCoat this is actually a good thing ! It makes clean up much easier or removal of DuraCoat a little easier...... it will still have to sit in a bath for a few hours once fully cured. Chemically you have 7 days where you can ad more Duracoat and it will still stick to itself ...... prefect for camo jobs, repairs , missed bits etc......

Personally...... I prefer DuraCoat any day on firearms over Cerakote for 2 main reasons:

1. DuraCoat is a firearms specific finish, it is far easier to apply and comes in more colours
2. In real world use the coatings last the same time (this could be years of use)........ but believe it or believe it not .... both wear !

It was mentioned about hydro graphics:

Firstly, if they are not a RFD then they cannot legally store your firearm or legally work on firearms. A RFD is a HUGE investment so with that out of the way:

Ive removed alot of Hydro dipping and while I stand to be corrected but I have yet to see it applied correctly here in Ireland (other than a factory gun). If a firearm came to me hydro dipped I charge extra to remove it as it takes a considerable amount of time materials to remove it. There is no comparison to DuraCoat or Cerakote in terms of Durability, abrasion resistance...... anything.

Ive seen guns that would not fit back together because the clear coat is too thick, trigger groups that I've had to hammer out, knurling on scope turrets disappear with the thickness of coating, the rubbers and seals destroyed from presumably the activator..... and on and on.......

Cass

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

...... it will require starting again
.

Balls to that, just buy them a new gun.

gunhappy_ie

Cass wrote: »

Balls to that, just buy them a new gun.

Hey man it happens, I'm only human 🀣... what's worse is when parts get marked with re-assembly..... with fully cured Cerakote it's a head scratcher on how to fix it 🀯🀯

Also to add to my last post.....

When getting a firearm coated unless you plan to take it to the grave you have to think of its resale value......

Rattle cans and using shrubbery as templates has its place but when a RFD sees the dirt and twigs embedded in the paint job on your gun.... itll devalue it, sometimes to to case where its only fit for the scrap pile.

The same goes for the camo tapes, they are a very hard sell afterwards. They hold moisture to the gun causing them to badly rust (or rot timber stocks) without people seeing the damage until it's too late.

Bog Trotter99

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Hey man it happens, I'm only human ��... what's worse is when parts get marked with re-assembly..... with fully cured Cerakote it's a head scratcher on how to fix it ����

Also to add to my last post.....

When getting a firearm coated unless you plan to take it to the grave you have to think of its resale value......

Rattle cans and using shrubbery as templates has its place but when a RFD sees the dirt and twigs embedded in the paint job on your gun.... itll devalue it, sometimes to to case where its only fit for the scrap pile.

The same goes for the camo tapes, they are a very hard sell afterwards. They hold moisture to the gun causing them to badly rust (or rot timber stocks) without people seeing the damage until it's too late.

If someone had a gun like that you can bet it wasn't cleaned either.