Russia - threadbanned users in OP

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163928#Comment_119163928

Diplomacy still holds out hope that Kim, Assad and others will eventually behave like other statesman. In Africa, China and to a lesser extent Russia are helping out countries and regimes that suit their worldview. This is a strategy they learnt from the US and the former colonisers.

They are under threat from a deranged Putin, not Russia and he's the first Russian/Soviet leader to ever do so. That threat is only in the big pile of nukes as their standard forces could probably be wiped out very quickly. Long term it is in Russia's interest to come to an arrangement.

I can’t see any Western weapons supplier being put off by Ukrainian military returning fire against Russian units firing from within Russia.

There is a risk Russia will claim a false flag destruction of a Civilian area and escalate the barbarity by destroying Kyiv… and they can. But, that’s up to the Ukrainians to risk… and there’s little to stop Russia claiming such false flag operation already.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163944#Comment_119163944

Sure, what will happen will happen but I see nothing wrong with suggesting that an end could come about without that humiliation if Putin is so inclined. Someone has to give the impression that a civilised arrangement may be possible, however unlikely that is. As a military force they are pretty much toast, which is a humiliation in its own right.

Banana Republic 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163867#Comment_119163867

Tell that to those who keep it engaging me as a pro putin sympathiser. Articles from Twitter during war times are propaganda, they are from the right side but there still propaganda nonetheless. If people are happy to try and out do each other in a race to post reports of the latest explosion andeath counts that’s fine but don’t cry outrage when someone posts something that actually might matter to how long this war continues.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163963#Comment_119163963

Not the time for it. Putin is more likely (like all leaders) to give the auld diplomacy a try if they can clearly see defeat is likely. Macron’s actions delay that point, imo.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163974#Comment_119163974

No, an interest in discussion and negotiations requires compromise diplomacy is what keeps the lines of communication open, sometimes to no avail. Macron is just stating an opinion and in light of the unknown condition of Putin's mind probably a sensible one. Peace is made between enemies and any half gesture that might encourage them to cease is worth pursuing.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163986#Comment_119163986

Fair enough. I think it should always be there but we can agree to disagree.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163963#Comment_119163963

Giving the impression but all sides know that no one is currently interested in that impression.

Russia is acting in a way that is verging on an existential threat to Western Europe.

Whether it is humiliated or not is irrelevant, the most important strategic outcome for Europe is that it no longer has a functional army after this and that it cannot blockade the black sea.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164006#Comment_119164006

At present absolutely nothing but even a token hint from the hated West might figure in his planning, is the thinking behind that Macron comment. In all probability it won't but IMO it still needs to be said.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164021#Comment_119164021

No one likes a sycophant.

listermint

Putin needs a bloody nose and a broken leg. Because that is the only language he understands. He sees power and threads entirely different than the weewaa's on this thread.

The only way you slow someone like this down in future plans or goals is to make them think that they will be absolutely fckd up pursuing whatever it is the wanted.

He doesn't give a shite about treaties or handshakes .

Ukraine have given him the bloody nose. We are waiting on the broken leg.

shivaz

1 General down,1Aircraft down,1Helicopter down,lots of chechens down on the streets of Severodonetsk,Russian invaders retreating back to the woods.They will come again this week but with nothing new or better.The tide is turning.

zv2

Ukraine does not need to declare war on Russia. It can engage in special, super duper, hyper diplomacy with guns. That's not war is it? lol

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163963#Comment_119163963

Isn't that the 'Neville Chamberlain' approach though? There should always be time for the sort of diplomacy you describe and many people made efforts before Feb 24th, including Macron.

But once Putin threw that away and crossed the Rubicon, he set in motion a set of events that will lead to his downfall one way or another. He's yesterdays man, Ukraine may suffer terribly but so will the Russian economy and their status in the world. He could end it all tomorrow by withdrawing completely from Ukraine territory and paying massive reparations but he'd be finished too in that scenario.

Attempting to allow Putin to save face now is just compounding one mistake with another.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164344#Comment_119164344

Isn't that the 'Neville Chamberlain' approach though? There should always be time for the sort of diplomacy you describe and many people made efforts before Feb 24th, including Macron.

Chamberlain convinced himself that he was going to stop war. There was just a hope pre-February that it could have happened here. Still need to keep the phone lines open regardless of what's taking place in the war. Except of course if he is stupid enough the button, then he and Russia really are burnt toast.

Hobgoblin11

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61702862

another sad day for Commanders all over Russia

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163916#Comment_119163916

Except for one thing- I showed how and where your "understanding" was faulty with regard to what Ukraine thinks of Macrons 'diplomacy' which you suggested aligned, where I showed in reality it clearly didn't and the fact that Macrons appeasement has been already well criticised by "geopolitical" experts. And I did so by providing links to both those points. And that has fcuk all to do with mud slinging at others whose opinion you class as "personal mores" or "illusory views"

Yes posters do indeed have different opinions. But you coming out with low grade shite like that indicates you believe that only your own opinion is worthy of consideration

The point made in my previous comment was that anyone can engage in that type of nonsense. But definitely expect others to call you out on it.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164021#Comment_119164021

From the video having a go at Macrons frequent phone calls to Putin

"Macroning - to call many times and for no reason"

Well they got one thing right anyway 😁

Curious_Case

We, the readers and contributors to this thread, would be punished for stealing a loaf of bread, not having a TV licence or parking on a double yellow.

Putin, however, is being allowed level cities with impunity. It is obvious that under his unevolved regime, lives don't matter.

Tarred, feathered, put on display in a cage in central Kiev and fed rotted scraps.

Not very geopolitical of me ?

I regard geopolitics as the long term projection of identifiable trends regarding the proliferation of any particular ideology.

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164143#Comment_119164143

Putin needs a bloody nose and a broken leg

I'd suggest a bodybag

Mecanudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163963#Comment_119163963

Eh?

"A civilised arrangement may be possible"? It's already evident that Putin spits in the face of the wests idea of "civilised"

Macron is suggesting that Ukraine hand over large parts of its territory to appease Putin this time, so that Putin is not humiliated. I mean seriously Wtf? Ukraine may not be WW2, but Putin is certainly a doppelganger for Hitler without doubt.

Appeasement was tried with Hitler prior to the start of WW2 and from history we know how that went. Do you honestly believe that Hitler would have desisted because that "civilised" agreement meant that he wasn't "humiliated" and if only everyone was nicer to him? And everything was all lovely afterwards?

What alternative universe are we living in?

Economics101

There has been a lot of OTT comment on Marcon's apparent appeasement of Putin, but the French seem to have come up with the goods in the form of very capable 155mm long-range artillery. Credit where credit is due.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf76pAYyU8U

The French can be tricky to interpret at times.

nigeldaniel

Another one bites the dust

Another one bites the dust

And another one gone and another one gone

Another one bites the dust

Russian Generals are in short supply, someone is trying to send Putin a message or two methinks. :)

I dont think Ukraine will agree to any peace deal, eventually will just meet military stale mate and end up with a post 2014 Donbas situation but over a larger scale / area and it will be with the Russian army, not Russians pretending to be rebels like last time. I think this is what they mean by the war going on for years perhaps decades?! However what might be different is that the west might be more willing to arm Ukraine but the quantity is important too, you hear of this country giving tanks or artillery but its the quantity of the equipment received that matters as well. Ukraine needs focus on rebuilding the economy / factories in western Urkraine where its safer, because this situation will be here for a very long time.

firemansam4

I wonder does Macron have a point in some ways about not humiliating Putin?

I like many other posters here would love to see Ukraine give Russia a bloody nose and see the Russian troops pushed right back over the border.

But we haven't seen Putin use the nuclear card yet, is it possible that if Russia is humiliated and pushed back to such an extent that Putin just says f**ck it and sends one nuclear war head to a random Ukrainian city as a warning to surrender then if that doesn't work decides to target Kyiv and so on, could he be that mad and get away with turning Ukraine into a nuclear wasteland?

I would love to see Putin and Russia humiliated, but there is always that nuclear threat in the background which would worry me.

Field east

Because of the MUCH reduced business, diplomatic and otherwise, between the sanction supporting countries and Russia, the whole embassy structure should be looked at to make it more efficient. For example, suggest to Russia that instead of it having an embassy in each country , that it would open an embassy in , say Belgium or Brussels, and deal with the countries that want to buy into the concept. Russia could do the same thing by having one office in Moscow that would deal with all the issues to be handled on behalf of those countries that have bought into the concept.

the above concept solves in o stroke the numbers issue in Ireland and it helps to send to Ru another message that can be added to all the other actions. It also curtails Ru efforts re espionage, etc.

nigeldaniel

I think it's universally agreed that they will be no Nuke used by Russia. Putin does not have the support from all the necessary people in Moscow to fire them. All he does is bluster like a school yard tug. The biggest threat would come from Russian sponsored terror attacks which could include dirty bombs. Lucky for us, Putin's army of henchmen are now dead so the foot soldiers for that are in short supply.

Ten of Swords

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163867#Comment_119163867

Mod - Can everyone drop the back and forth arguing about each other (that I'm pretty sure nobody except the participants involved read anyway) and get back to the topic at hand, thanks

thomil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164731#Comment_119164731

None of us really know what state of mind Putin really is in, so we can all only guess at this point. However, Putin likely knows that the nukes are the last ace he has up his sleeve. They are currently his most valuable asset because his possession of such weapons provides him with a degree of impunity. Once he starts using them, they lose this value.

Whilst the Kremlin likely doesn’t care about the optics of becoming the First Nation since WW2 to use nukes in anger, such a move will likely galvanise even some of the more hesitant countries into action, particularly France and Germany, who both have a lot to lose from this war going nuclear. As such, the Russian nuclear arsenal will lose its deterrent value and the west will likely engage Russia on a much broader front than we’re seeing currently. It is also likely to spur China into action as an irrational neighbour lobbing nukes around is likely not in Beijing’s interest. In short, he would massively weaken his own position by using them.

Given the above, and with the aforementioned caveat about Putins state of mind, I doubt that he is going to launch nukes unless the war really turns against him and the core territory of Russia is threatened. He’s not going to throw away his “get-out-of-jail” card, at least if he is somewhat rational.

Now, if he’s at the “Bunker in Berlin, April 1945” stage, then all bets are off naturally.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164731#Comment_119164731

No, there's no chance of him using nuclear weapons in Ukraine. Once nukes are used, it's game over. The value of nukes is more in their threat than their use. Once you use them, you become an existential threat to the entire world and you must be shut down immediately. The world not only wouldn't sit by in that situation, but it couldn't sit by in that situation. There just wouldn't be the luxury.

Anyway, being pushed back in Ukraine wouldn't be a humiliation, regardless of what Putin thinks a humiliation should be defined as. If Russia lost some of its own territory, or was forced to agree to an unconditional surrender, that would be closer to being a humiliation. Being pushed back in Ukraine would only be just.