Ennis Limerick rail line

Poxyshamrock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564706#Comment_121564706

No, the line hasn't been raised since the mid 00s. The line hasn't flooded since 2020 afaik but comes close usually around this time of the year.

seekers

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/1401476/study-underway-on-location-of-new-train-station-in-limerick.html

Tiernster7

Good news , anyone have any idea where Moyross and Limerick to Limerick junction are currently. I believe similar studies were started for both 15 months ago

Poxyshamrock

Barry Kenny was on Clare FM to discuss the study.

https://www.clare.fm/news/iarnrod-eireann-looking-improve-capacity-resilience-ennis-limerick-rail-service/

Consonata

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1768949177906532425?t=IFaL68KBmEbFHN4jODa9Ug&s=19

Line closed until further notice :(

Geuze

Google Maps suggests the line goes into the lake...............

Tiernster7

It pretty much does. It's been amazing it's kept going as long asvit has this year.

I'd guess this could be a 3 to 7 week stint

dowlingm

a shame the problem wasn’t dealt with permanently by deviating at Ballycar to Newmarket on Fergus/M18 junction 10 when that road was constructed, and returning to the historic alignment at Clarecastle/ south of J12. But when the OPW have stubbornly allowed the line to be damaged time and again, what chance the NRA would have given space in their design to run a rail track?

Poxyshamrock

Stupid question but would it be possible to pump water out or does the fact that it’s groundwater just mean that it would return?

dowlingm

The geology there is difficult - limestone is very porous, so pumping it out (somewhere) might only result in water from adjacent land coming in.

Hopefully we won’t see similar on the Foynes line where that bridge was supposed to be raised as a flood relief project and somebody objected, so it appears to be set for reinstatement in situ.

Geuze

Every cloud has a silver lining.

The first train into Ceannt each morning is usually a 2-car DMU, packed with people, hardly standing room.

Four car today, I found out why later. The flooding.

Poxyshamrock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947925#Comment_121947925

And I notice the 0915 ex Limerick which was usually formed of a 4-car 2800 class is now departing Ennis at 1000 as a 22000. Not sure if this is due to new carriages coming on stream but most likely due to flooding.

Tiernster7

Any updates on this line? My garden is hardening, will the rail track ?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026863#Comment_122026863

Outside of the North West and a small bit of the South Midlands, everywhere had above average rain for the past 6 weeks including here. Likely still months.

nigra

Its more than a little despiriting that there has barely been a peep in the media about the ongoing Limerick/Ennis line flooding. There has been no announcement of imminent works to rectify the situation and the whole issue seems to have disappeared off the radar, which isn't terribly surprising considering the media can hardly see beyond Dublin. Interesting to contrast with how many times daily i hear about Luas/M50 delays etc…. Anyway, considering the amount of money that went into reopening the line in the first place, this is a seriously poor return on investment for the taxpayer.

From enquiries i made, it seems that the stall here is the OPW. The flooding source is well away from the line and they are the agreed state agency to progress a solution . Since the cabinet reshuffle, the minister with responsibility for the OPW is Kieran O'Donnell TD. The previous incumbent , Minister Patrick O'Donovan didn't do replies.

Can i suggest that anyone who would like to see the problem solved email Minister O'Donnell directly and ask that a solution to the flooding at Ballycar be funded and engineering works progress? Otherwise its only a matter of time until the line is closed yet again…

Cookiemunster

The line is to reopen on Saturday afternoon.

https://twitter.com/IrishRail/status/1780588495272046621

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027065#Comment_122027065

And I was completely wrong.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122029768#Comment_122029768

Ths really isn't an OPW issue. That area floods naturally and trying to prevent it would cause flooding elsewhere (the water has to go somewhere). It's a place where water gathers, that wouldn't be an issue if they hadn't run a rail line through it. Whatever you propose to prevent the flooding probably wouldn't get planning approval anyway due to ecological impact of whatever you do.

The solutions are raising the rail line or diverting the rail line. Both of these would be for IÉ to undertake and both are likely easier than trying to stop the water accumulating there and dealing with it somewhere else. If IÉ want to continue operating the rail service, they either look for a solution or they accept that at certain times it will not be possible for the service to operate.

DoctorPan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034943#Comment_122034943

The flooding reports commissioned show the opposite, the flooding could be solved by the removal of the restriction of water flow between the swallow hole and spring near Ballycar, upgrading of existing drainage and some new drainage around Newmarket and Lough Gash.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035049#Comment_122035049

Can you provide a link to the report you are referring to because this report finds raising the rail line to be the preferred option;

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/32/joint_committee_on_rural_and_community_development/submissions/2018/2018-05-23_briefing-iarnrod-eireann-2015-rps-report-on-ballycar-flood-study_en.pdf

The works proposed under the preferred option are summarised in below:

Option 4 was chosen as:

 It provides the least ecological impact on the SAC of Lough Gash and the least impact on the pNHAs of Lough Finn and Rosroe Lough

 It does not increase flood risk elsewhere in the catchment especially at the internationally important air control communication infrastructure.

 It has the least negative effect on geology and hydrogeology in the area

Raising the rail line could be combined with providing a section of double track to allow trains to pass which would further improve the Cost/Benefit Analysis for that option.

Geuze

I presume this line was in use for over 100 years from maybe 1850 to 1975. Was there regular flooding then?

Was this line re-built as part the WRC in 2010?

DoctorPan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122035967#Comment_122035967

I cannot find a link to the report publicily but it's outcome are mentioned within a reply given by Patrick O'Donovan here:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2023-11-28/71/

and again here in an article by Clare Echo

https://www.clareecho.ie/ballycar-flooding-likely-to-keep-ennis-to-limerick-rail-line-closed-for-weeks/

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037235#Comment_122037235

Without seeing the 2020 report it's difficult to comment on it but the 2015 report said that improving drainage at Ballycar will result in flooding elsewhere. POD's answer suggests that the 2020 report says put in better drainage and also do works to prevent the flooding elsewhere. That sounds like a lot of unnecessary works, essentially solving the problem in one location by moving it to another and then try solving that. Solving such drainage issues is notoriously difficult and unintended consequences are common. It would be interesting to see the environmental impacts assessment of that.

POD also said;

The primary benefits of the measures identified in the assessment are derived from the protection of Iarnród Éireann infrastructure and accordingly it is with Iarnród Éireann, as the key stakeholder, to lead and pursue the resolution of the railway line flooding problem and to secure funding for the proposed project.

That is obviously correct. Works wouldn't be required if there wasn't a rail line there. The problem is not that it floods, the problem is that the rail line is there. The solution needs to focus on the rail line. Moving the water only creates a bigger scope of works and greater chance that further works will be required if other issues manifest later.

As I said, raising the rail line can be done along with other works to further improve rail services. The problem with that is spending another €10m on the rail line less than two decades after it opened at a cost of €110m. IÉ are just trying to push the problem onto someone else.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122036854#Comment_122036854

the line from limerick through to mayo was in use really up until the late 90s early 2000s for freight and some enthusiast tours/specials operated .
the limerick to ennis section had passenger services restored in i think 1994?
limerick to ennis is part of the WRC and it was relayed at least in 2010.
i'm not sure of the flooding issues but i would presume they did exist, not really an issue for steam trains but for the diesel locos it might have been depending on how high the water was as traction motors ETC would get flooded which is not good.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122038229#Comment_122038229

Limerick-Ennis reopened 1988.

Pete_Cavan

From the report I linked to above;

Flooding of the railway track in the vicinity of Ballycar Lough is a long-standing problem. This section of the Ennis–Limerick line was flooded on a number of occasions in the past. The railway track at Ballycar Lough was flooded, most notably in the years of 1994, 1995, 2009 and 2014. According to Iarnrod Eireann, the railway track was flooded on approximately 14 occasions since 1930. This flooding has led to temporary closures of the railway line for a maximum period of 16 weeks during the 1994 and 2014 flooding events and 8 weeks during the November 2009 flooding event.

L1011

Would say from these photos that the slight raising is the only reason its open now - its still very, very wet within the edges of the alignment!

https://twitter.com/wandererphotos/status/1781737185034547450/photo/4

nigra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122037554#Comment_122037554

Thanks, its news to me to hear of so many previous reports on the Ballycar flooding. I had understood that there was an interagency dispute as to who the lead agency to resolve this was to be but my understanding was that after a government meeting in 2022 the OPW was the nominated lead agency.

So now i take it that the interagency mexican standoff (IE vs OPW) is still going on?

You have to ask where are the adults to sort this out? surely thats why we elect politicians?It is frustrating that our elected representatives can't decide on a solution to what is quite a minor issue, but a major inconvenience for commuters.