Charging etiquette

tDw6u1bj

ELM327 wrote: »

Because expecting people to hand in their car keys is nonsense. I'm not giving you the keys to my car. What if I need something from it? What if I dont have a key and it's only my phone? etc.

It's a hotel. They're going to have a night-porter/24hr reception otherwise there would be no point.

We assume a certain amount of trust any time we stay in a hotel. You stay in a room where if they wanted to they could walk into your room when you're asleep or rummage through your belongings when you're out - access to your car is less weird than that. TBH, I didn't expect the suggestion to be so controvertial

ELM327 wrote: »

Sorry but I'd not stay in a hotel that had that policy.
It's a lot easier to make "the rules" fit user behavior than it is to change user behavior. And what you are proposing is a bad system.

Changing the rules (system is a better word here) to fit users is better in the long run, this will take the form of every space having its own charger.

Unfortunately we're nowhere near there* so a policy that makes the most efficient use of available facilities and can be implemented immediately at no extra cost is prudent.

As I said, you can (and should) be courteous and push for better facilities.

*I'm not even sure that if, right now, a carpark wanted (and could/would pay) to upgrade 200 spaces to all have chargers that ESB networks would accommodate it.

turnfan

Use same etiquette as FCPs , as the issue here is the same: time and scarcity

Can't believe people would use timed charge at a public slow charger on purpose, just so they reach 100% at the exact time of departure, a couple of hours at 100% are not going to ruin your battery

We all know chargers are a scarce resource, plug in and charge as fast as you can, and let the next EV user unplug (with due care and attention) when you are fully charged (if the unit allows it)

I always leave a note with a contact number and a rough time I expect to be charged by, to assist the next user. If i can help, I will.

I'd be up at 0430 to check if you were finished charging, if I needed a charge badly for the next morning.

To suggest a trickle charge is the same as hogging, really. That's PHEV behaviour

Be kind and pay it forward to your fellow EV driver.

The easiest way for me to have a stress free holiday or trip would be to ensure I don't need to use hotel charging because trying to deal with hotel staff would probably be a lot of hassle and I would assume that when I got there that the charge point would be in use.

liamog

You can't apply the same standard to an FCP as you would an SCP, especially one that is located at a hotel.

FCPs and HPCs are for charging your car, it's an activity you should be actively waiting on.
This leads to the scenario that you should use it and move immediately.

SCPs are for charging your car whilst doing something else. It's reasonable to allow that people will charge there car and come back after the charge is complete. In the event of somebody charging at 10pm at night its expected that they will be connected overnight and not likely to move until the next morning.

turnfan

Ideally the same standards shouldn't apply, but if there is scarcity of chargers and multiple EV drivers in need, then the reality of the situation means some co-operation could maximize the benefit of the charger.


You can still tell the hotel that they need more chargers (which I imagine in the future this will be a paid for add on)

All that means is offering to be of assistance if someone badly needs a charge.
A note saying "My charge is finished at time X, if you need to plug in then, the cable should be unlocked"

Inconsiderate self centred people will unplug your car if they can at any time, but the rest of us can still co-operate, and help each other out.

ELM327

turnfan wrote: »

Ideally the same standards shouldn't apply, but if there is scarcity of chargers and multiple EV drivers in need, then the reality of the situation means some co-operation could maximize the benefit of the charger.


You can still tell the hotel that they need more chargers (which I imagine in the future this will be a paid for add on)

All that means is offering to be of assistance if someone badly needs a charge.
A note saying "My charge is finished at time X, if you need to plug in then, the cable should be unlocked"

Inconsiderate self centred people will unplug your car if they can at any time, but the rest of us can still co-operate, and help each other out.

turnfan wrote: »

Use same etiquette as FCPs , as the issue here is the same: time and scarcity

Can't believe people would use timed charge at a public slow charger on purpose, just so they reach 100% at the exact time of departure, a couple of hours at 100% are not going to ruin your battery

We all know chargers are a scarce resource, plug in and charge as fast as you can, and let the next EV user unplug (with due care and attention) when you are fully charged (if the unit allows it)

I always leave a note with a contact number and a rough time I expect to be charged by, to assist the next user. If i can help, I will.

I'd be up at 0430 to check if you were finished charging, if I needed a charge badly for the next morning.

To suggest a trickle charge is the same as hogging, really. That's PHEV behaviour

Be kind and pay it forward to your fellow EV driver.

This is all fanciful stuff as most cars are now type 2 and will not release the cable unless the car is unlocked. And I'm not stumbling down drunk at 4am to move my EV for you. Sorry but you're not ruining my hotel stay - that's an unrealistic expectation. Get there before me!

liamog

turnfan wrote: »

Ideally the same standards shouldn't apply, but if there is scarcity of chargers and multiple EV drivers in need, then the reality of the situation means some co-operation could maximize the benefit of the charger.

Even the people who own the chargers apply a different standard, eCars charge an overstay fee after 45 minutes on FCPs/HPCs and don't on SCP.

Don't rely on an SCP being available and plan your trips around DC chargers, that way if an SCP is available it's a bonus instead of you being disappointed because someone else is using the network as intended.

turnfan

This is Classic game theory! Lack of information sharing leads to sub-optimal outcomes. Winner takes all is why we can't have nice things

Cable should unlock at the charging unit when complete and remain locked to your car, no?

I'll share the information, and if someone is really stuck, and where it's possible I'd help them out. That wouldn't ruin my hotel stay at all. I don't expect others to do the same, although it would be great if they did. Each to their own!

• This discussion just illustrates, there is no charging etiquette, only how we choose to behave.
• Never depend on any one charger, or the kindness of others...(and always have the granny charger!)

liamog

turnfan wrote: »

This is Classic game theory! Lack of information sharing leads to sub-optimal outcomes. Winner takes all is why we can't have nice things

Cable should unlock at the charging unit when complete and remain locked to your car, no?

Will you pay for the damages to my cable when you've left it exposed to the weather?

turnfan

liamog wrote: »

Will you pay for the damages to my cable when you've left it exposed to the weather?

I'd leave it in a way that it wouldn't be exposed to the weather, so don't worry about it. I keep plastic bags, duct tape and zip ties in my own car for kidnappings clean up / emergency repairs.

But this is only if you gave me permission to remove it in the first place, and we mutually agreed. No agreement and I'm not touching anything!

My own cable has an attached rubber cap on both ends to protect it from the elements, so I generally don't worry about this being an issue myself.

No need to continue with this discussion, some people are open to working together, some people are not, it's just the way of the world.

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Will you pay for the damages to my cable when you've left it exposed to the weather?

All EV cables are water resistant.
We do this in work all the time and leave the cable curled up with cap on under the car.


Think of the tethered type 2 cables that are outside all the time.

liamog

Ok same point but's in left on the ground and someone else runs over it etc ...

It's one thing to have an arrangement between work colleagues, quite another to be moving cables owned by a stranger and trying to place them somewhere

ELM327

I mean, it's the same if I arrive at a tethered or untethered charger anywhere, if a car is plugged in and not charging, Ill try and unplug them and plug in myself. If they are worried about their cable then they should have come back to the car.

liamog

Fair enough so it's ok to remove other peoples property if it's in your way.

Well there's the solution to the hotel charger problem, just get a rope and remove the car from the space at 4am, if they cared about their car they should have come back to it.

ELM327

Way to miss what I was aiming at!

Yeah, think the best way is to always assume the charge points will not be available and don't add them into your charging plans.

turnfan

Stay within your home charger + battery range and be grateful you're allowed out at all

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

Way to miss what I was aiming at!

Well if removing some of somebody else's property from a public place without permission is ok, why not go the whole hog

Smee_Again

Is this thread the EV equivalent of German putting towels on resort deckchairs at 7am to be used later that day and whether that is poor form or not?

liamog

Smee_Again wrote: »

Is this thread the EV equivalent of German putting towels on resort deckchairs at 7am to be used later that day and whether that is poor form or not?

Think of it as the person leaves the towels on the chair whilst they are having a swim and then wanders off for a sandwich before coming back to move their stuff

ELM327

liamog wrote: »

Well if removing some of somebody else's property from a public place without permission is ok, why not go the whole hog

I'm not removing it though.

Smee_Again wrote: »

Is this thread the EV equivalent of German putting towels on resort deckchairs at 7am to be used later that day and whether that is poor form or not?

Yes
und herr liamog ist der haupt-protagonist!

tDw6u1bj

Smee_Again wrote: »

Is this thread the EV equivalent of German putting towels on resort deckchairs at 7am to be used later that day and whether that is poor form or not?

Bad comparison - they're reserving the best deck-chairs but there are always others available, which makes their actions annoying, but not a big deal.

The behaviour* in this thread is much more inconsiderate.


*(edit: complete hogging of a limited public facility)

slave1

Quite obvious there's no amicable solution here, up to property to lay out their rules and then follow them.
Still early days so property owners not going to engage through ignorance...
Looks like I'll have to avoid timed charge and drop amperage on car to allow immediate charging through to departure time next day and even that will be against some folks thoughts!

ELM327

slave1 wrote: »

Quite obvious there's no amicable solution here, up to property to lay out their rules and then follow them.
Still early days so property owners not going to engage through ignorance...
Looks like I'll have to avoid timed charge and drop amperage on car to allow immediate charging through to departure time next day and even that will be against some folks thoughts!

Or just do what most folks do. Do whatever you think is best. That's what I do. As I grow older I learn to stop caring what others think.

liamog

ELM327 wrote: »

I'm not removing it though.

So you aren't planning on removing one end of my charging cable from the handy type 2 receptacle I've chosen to store it in

liamog

slave1 wrote: »

Quite obvious there's no amicable solution here, up to property to lay out their rules and then follow them.
Still early days so property owners not going to engage through ignorance...
Looks like I'll have to avoid timed charge and drop amperage on car to allow immediate charging through to departure time next day and even that will be against some folks thoughts!

I'd just plug in when I arrive, charge at full speed, if it's going to be done at a reasonable hour pop out and put the cable in the boot. If it's going to finish at 1am, I'll be leaving it until the morning.

I don't see any functional difference between using the charger at full speed for 4 hours versus artificially reducing it to 12 hours so I can avoid upsetting someone who got there after me.

turnfan

If another EV user asked me if they could carefully remove my cable at 1am, when I was finished so they could charge, I'd say, go for it, stick the cap on the end and leave it under the car out of the way.
(and also do you like your EV? Can i see inside? etc etc )

If I was worried about damage to the cable, I'd go down and do it myself.

But I wouldn't deny someone else a charge if they needed it, by slowing my own charge.

kanuseeme

Way too much hassle.

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

Absolutely I am. First come first served. But as equally as I am pro first come first served, I'm opposed to reservations of chargers.

Are you against reservation of other hotel facilities too? The spa, pool, a certain room even?
A private business, a hotel, with a privately owned charge point, with a paying guest who owns an EV, plugged in to charge overnight while they sleep, is somehow a problem how? Because a later arriving guest wants to use it?
They feel entitled to interfere with another guests private property by removing a cable, because their need for a charge takes priority?

ELM327 wrote: »

You joke about lowering the charge curve but this actually is better. The notional other EV would see the charger in use and therefore not expect to use it later and know they have to make other plans.

Again, I plan my trip, pay well for my stay at the hotel, plug in my EV & head for dinner/drinks/bed, but I'm required to ensure the charge point shows I'm actively charging, lest someone else takes issue I'm plugged in but they're not?

turnfan wrote: »

Use same etiquette as FCPs , as the issue here is the same: time and scarcity

Can't believe people would use timed charge at a public slow charger on purpose, just so they reach 100% at the exact time of departure

The timed charging was just mentioned as a possible reason a charge point may not show a car actively charging at a hotel whilst still plugged in. Maybe the car had already reached 100% & the owner had retired to bed early in preparation for a very early start the following morning, with a full battery.

liamog wrote: »

Fair enough so it's ok to remove other peoples property if it's in your way.

Yeah, I too am perplexed at the reasoning proffered here by some seasoned EV owners . A private hotel charge point - I'm plugging in if it's free at 6/7/8pm & if it takes 6 hours at 7kW or 12 hours at 3kW, I likely won't be moving it.
If I can phone & book it in advance, even better, exactly as I can for a ferry.
Private business, with a privately owned resource.

Now a publicly funded DC charger or publicly available, on-street, AC charge post, sure, impose penalties, clamp, tow away - whatever, I'm all for it.

A hotel?

That said, I always arrive at a hotel with enough charge to get to the nearest DC fast charger the following day, lest the charge point be occupied, ICE'd or broken.
Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

:pac:.

God, I can only just imagine the hassle hotel staff are going to have to endure over charge points

With these hotel chargers, do you just go and plug in, do you have to swipe, ask permission etc ? can't say I'd be bothered with all that nonsense you have to go through if it's anything like the grief of accessing work chargers I just wouldn't bother.