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Charging etiquette

  • 19-06-2021 9:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭ loopymum


    I'm at a resort in ireland & need a charge for the morning. There is tesla charging on a tesla typev2 that can charge any car. A bmw hybrid not taking any charge

    Also another car has finished charging & the cable isn't locked to the car. I could disconnect this but don't fancy dealing with an irate owner. What would you do.
    I'm staying in a house but it means trailing a cable boom the footpath


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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    loopymum wrote: »
    I'm at a resort in ireland & need a charge for the morning. There is tesla charging on a tesla typev2 that can charge any car. A bmw hybrid not taking any charge

    Also another car has finished charging & the cable isn't locked to the car. I could disconnect this but don't fancy dealing with an irate owner. What would you do.
    I'm staying in a house but it means trailing a cable boom the footpath

    If the other car is full then I’d disconnect it. Be courteous and close their charging port and leave a little note telling them you waited until they were full before disconnecting and hope you don’t mind me
    Plugging in. Leave your name and number to make it a bit more personal should you wish.

    I’d have no problem if it was my car, but if it was my car plugged in I’d know when it was full and make a point of moving it to be honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    loopymum wrote: »
    I'm at a resort in ireland & need a charge for the morning. There is tesla charging on a tesla typev2 that can charge any car. A bmw hybrid not taking any charge

    Also another car has finished charging & the cable isn't locked to the car. I could disconnect this but don't fancy dealing with an irate owner. What would you do.
    I'm staying in a house but it means trailing a cable boom the footpath

    Haha, a looppymum and a Mad_Lad, we're in the right place lol.

    Plug the car out if it' not charging!


  • Moderators Posts: 11,978 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Haha, a looppymum and a Mad_Lad, we're in the right place lol.

    Plug the car out if it' not charging!

    Agreed, though like gumbo I'd know when my car was fully charged and move it. Unplug and do your best to keep things tidy for them.

    Biggest concern I'd have is keeping their cable dry after unplugging it, but again they should be aware of their car and not so ignorant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭ carfinder


    One thing that I find somewhat annoying is finding a single car in a double bay taking up more than half the space simply because the driver wasn't careful in how they parked. In most cases it just means an annoying tight squeeze but I have had occasion where it was impossible to use the available charger (a poorly parked X5 being the culprit)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭ loopymum


    Ok. I left it a while. But then decided **** it. It was their own cable connected and the charger clearly said it would not disconnect it till charging was finished.
    No lights flashing. Nothing.

    The charger disconnected easily so I put the end on their cable and obviously didn't touch their car.
    Left it their neatly & out of the way.

    Plugged mine in & went back before bed but got the oh to walk up with me in case i met any angry monster jeep people. And it was late.

    Same cars still there and the bmw hybrid still plugged in & not charging as well. Tesla still charging.

    Thanks for all the replies. Oh was a bit horrified at me.

    Will have to charge to go back out again later this afternoon as well. Hope it will be free then but wouldn't be surprised to see both hybrids plugged in & not charging.
    Its a bit of a silly set up really.
    I rang reception to see if i could access a 3 pin socket anywhere to avoid trailing cable on the footpath outside the holiday home but very unhelpful.
    I seem to be in a section that doesnt have much foot traffic so might just plug out the window tonight. Dose

    What are peoples thoughts on that?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭ kesey


    loopymum wrote: »

    Will have to charge to go back out again later this afternoon as well. Hope it will be free then but wouldn't be surprised to see both hybrids plugged in & not charging.
    Its a bit of a silly set up really.
    I rang reception to see if i could access a 3 pin socket anywhere to avoid trailing cable on the footpath outside the holiday home but very unhelpful.
    I seem to be in a section that doesnt have much foot traffic so might just plug out the window tonight. Dose

    What are peoples thoughts on that?

    Are you in a house or in a mobile home? Many mobile homes would have a fairly basic electricity supply that would barely have the capacity to run a hair-drier, not to mind charge a car. All you can do is try. If the system trips out you'll to try the town charging system again. Bring a notepad and marker and leave notes for the inconsiderate drivers, if they are still in situ.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    loopymum wrote: »

    Will have to charge to go back out again later this afternoon as well. Hope it will be free then but wouldn't be surprised to see both hybrids plugged in & not charging.

    Its a bit of a silly set up really.
    I rang reception to see if i could access a 3 pin socket anywhere to avoid trailing cable on the footpath outside the holiday home but very unhelpful.
    I seem to be in a section that doesnt have much foot traffic so might just plug out the window tonight. Dose

    What are peoples thoughts on that?

    I wouldn't leave the cable out the window if there's the slightest chance someone might trip.

    Staff in these places haven't a clue about car charging or how long it takes to charge and they don't understand that when a car is stopped charging the owner should move to make it available for someone else and the worst thing is that they don't want to know or learn and management least of all, they just put Ev charging there to make it more attractive to stay and nothing more but it would help to write a letter to management, no point saying it to the staff they couldn't care less. You have to be careful how you word it or next you know the charge points are gone :D

    The only way for people to understand about electric car charging is to own an electric car but even at that if it doesn't directly effect them they probably still couldn't care less.

    I've had the same battles in work, the charge points are there and it's the staff, mostly security that think they have the authority to tell you whether you can use them or not, then there's the begrudges that are not getting something and don't want you having it. I've had tonnes of battles with work charge points.
    kesey wrote: »
    Bring a notepad and marker and leave notes for the inconsiderate drivers, if they are still in situ.

    That's a waste of time and effort, you're trying to make inconsiderate People give a sh*t, they don't and there's nothing you can say or do to make them care. The only time People like this care is when it effects them then they'll still do it themselves the next time because they're selfish People. Unfortunately, there's too many around, I experienced it a lot at fast chargers and they'll be the first ones bitching about it on face book and calling for blood if it happens to them.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    loopymum wrote: »
    Ok. I left it a while. But then decided **** it. It was their own cable connected and the charger clearly said it would not disconnect it till charging was finished.
    No lights flashing. Nothing.

    The charger disconnected easily so I put the end on their cable and obviously didn't touch their car.
    Left it their neatly & out of the way.

    Plugged mine in & went back before bed but got the oh to walk up with me in case i met any angry monster jeep people. And it was late.

    Same cars still there and the bmw hybrid still plugged in & not charging as well. Tesla still charging.

    Thanks for all the replies. Oh was a bit horrified at me.

    Will have to charge to go back out again later this afternoon as well. Hope it will be free then but wouldn't be surprised to see both hybrids plugged in & not charging.
    Its a bit of a silly set up really.
    I rang reception to see if i could access a 3 pin socket anywhere to avoid trailing cable on the footpath outside the holiday home but very unhelpful.
    I seem to be in a section that doesnt have much foot traffic so might just plug out the window tonight. Dose

    What are peoples thoughts on that?

    I understand being plugged in and "not charging" is a potential no no but two wrongs do not make a right.

    The owner could have had the car on a timing charge and expecting to walk out to an appropriate charge level next morning.
    There would be no lights flashing if it was on a timed charge.
    You posted at 9:35 so if that person needed say, 8 hours to reach 100% then they could have pulled up at say 8:30PM and just left it on it's usual night rate timing, what's the point of having it sitting there fully charged at 4:30AM. Better from a BMS perspective to have it fully charged at departure time and not be sitting there hours on end at 100%.

    If it was me i would have plugged in (it is first come first serve "destination" charging) and used timed charging as outlined above...

    I'm genuinely surprised at well veteran EV owners jumping on disconnecting like posted above without thought of the timed charge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭ kesey


    loopymum wrote: »
    I rang reception to see if i could access a 3 pin socket anywhere to avoid trailing cable on the footpath outside the holiday home but very unhelpful.
    I seem to be in a section that doesnt have much foot traffic so might just plug out the window tonight. Dose

    What are peoples thoughts on that?

    https://www.speakev.com/threads/reduce-ac-charg-current-option.157886/

    That's an interesting and useful read re granny chargers/charging/Reduce AC Charg. Current


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭ ...Ghost...


    slave1 wrote: »
    I understand being plugged in and "not charging" is a potential no no but two wrongs do not make a right.

    The owner could have had the car on a timing charge and expecting to walk out to an appropriate charge level next morning.
    There would be no lights flashing if it was on a timed charge.
    You posted at 9:35 so if that person needed say, 8 hours to reach 100% then they could have pulled up at say 8:30PM and just left it on it's usual night rate timing, what's the point of having it sitting there fully charged at 4:30AM. Better from a BMS perspective to have it fully charged at departure time and not be sitting there hours on end at 100%.

    If it was me i would have plugged in (it is first come first serve "destination" charging) and used timed charging as outlined above...

    I'm genuinely surprised at well veteran EV owners jumping on disconnecting like posted above without thought of the timed charge.

    Valid point on the timer and BMS, but unless it’s your charger, you’re hogging it by plugging in and not charging. Whose to say the next person waiting wouldn’t be up at the crack of dawn, ready to plug in when your lights stop flashing. You’re either charging the car or you’re not. If not, then the next person should be allowed to plug in and charge up. Necessity trumps preference in this case.

    I give exception if connected to a public destination charge point where the person might be at work and are taking up a parking space (paid) and a charge point, but the vehicle then, if the cad is not charging and the next person can access the charger, it should be ok to disconnect the car not sucking juice.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,058 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Sure that's your opinion, if owner did have it charging as outlined above then I see noone getting up at 4:30am to go out and disconnect so they would still be plugged in and not charging after reaching 100%.
    Dammed do, dammed don't


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    slave1 wrote: »

    The owner could have had the car on a timing charge and expecting to walk out to an appropriate charge level next morning.
    There would be no lights flashing if it was on a timed charge.
    You posted at 9:35 so if that person needed say, 8 hours to reach 100% then they could have pulled up at say 8:30PM and just left it on it's usual night rate timing, what's the point of having it sitting there fully charged at 4:30AM. Better from a BMS perspective to have it fully charged at departure time and not be sitting there hours on end at 100%.

    If it was me i would have plugged in (it is first come first serve "destination" charging) and used timed charging as outlined above...

    I'm genuinely surprised at well veteran EV owners jumping on disconnecting like posted above without thought of the timed charge.

    Yes, hadn't thought about that and you're quite right.
    Valid point on the timer and BMS, but unless it’s your charger, you’re hogging it by plugging in and not charging. Whose to say the next person waiting wouldn’t be up at the crack of dawn, ready to plug in when your lights stop flashing. You’re either charging the car or you’re not. If not, then the next person should be allowed to plug in and charge up. Necessity trumps preference in this case.

    I give exception if connected to a public destination charge point where the person might be at work and are taking up a parking space (paid) and a charge point, but the vehicle then, if the cad is not charging and the next person can access the charger, it should be ok to disconnect the car not sucking juice.

    Yes I agree with both comments but it really is up to the management to give clear instructions and implement some kind of fair use policy, for instance, 6 hrs max and charge per Kwh.

    Management are usually not aware of these issues or don't care, least of all the staff but if enough people write to them calmly and explain the situation and maybe request that their be a fair usage of no more than 6 hrs on a charge point.

    If People start ranting, raving and making demands they will just get tired of it and pull the charge points off the wall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    The BMW i3 is another car that gives absolutely no indication as to whether or not it's charging.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Valid point on the timer and BMS, but unless it’s your charger, you’re hogging it by plugging in and not charging.

    You'd expect a paying hotel guest to charge up to 100% & get back to the charge point at some time of the morning (probably after dinner & a few drinks - they're holidaying in a hotel!), to disconnect their car & move it, in case someone arrived after them & felt more entitled to use it :confused:.

    These are not fast DC chargers (kWh charges & overstay fees take care of them), but "destination" charge points, being used exactly as they are meant to be used.
    Whether a €100k BMW PHEV is plugged in or a 24kWh Leaf (same battery capacity) makes no difference. First come first served.

    I'd be pretty annoyed if my EV, I plugged in at say 8pm at a hotel, at 10% SoC, which was scheduled to charge to 100%, ready for my departure at 8am, was still at 10% the following morning, with my cable on the ground, where the late arriving Leaf/i3/ID.3 etc. left it, so they could charge up, because they saw my car wasn't "charging" :rolleyes:.
    I've often remotely stopped & started our Model 3 too while it was connected to a hotel charge point.

    I too am surprised that EV owners here are condoning disconnecting another person's cable, at such a privately owner charge point, during a pandemic :pac:.

    There's animosity too towards Teslas & PHEVs, as if there's some sort of EV hierarchy & it's open season on large SUVs/PHEVs/Teslas.

    I'm vehemently anti hogging & all for more chargers/charge points, both public & private, but the sentiment here of touching other owners' equipment at a hotel is completely misguided.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭ ...Ghost...


    slave1 wrote: »
    Sure that's your opinion, if owner did have it charging as outlined above then I see noone getting up at 4:30am to go out and disconnect so they would still be plugged in and not charging after reaching 100%.
    Dammed do, dammed don't

    I'd be wrapped up in my duvet dream of Victorias Secret Angels :D, but some early riser could be up for an early jog and could plug in if the other car is done charging.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Its a destination charger. I'm guessing it was a type 1 car that allowed the cable to be removed (generally type 2 is locked at car and charger end unless either the car or the charger has been set differently).

    At work (BC - before covid) we had a rule among EV drivers that if you were plugged in and finished charging it was ok to be unplugged and we made sure the installer configured the chargers this way too.

    You can't expect to use timed charging at a destination charger. It's first come first served but you cant "reserve" the charger by using timed charging.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,531 ✭✭✭ whippet


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You can't expect to use timed charging at a destination charger. It's first come first served but you cant "reserve" the charger by using timed charging.


    that is the nugget of realism that is needed. If you are not using the charger you shouldn't park there ... just because you intend to use in a few hours time does not mean you should block it off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Its a destination charger.

    It's first come first served but you cant "reserve" the charger by using timed charging.
    whippet wrote: »
    If you are not using the charger you shouldn't park there ... just because you intend to use in a few hours time does not mean you should block it off.

    So.....I book a hotel with an onsite charge point - actually call them up to check. I arrive at 7pm in my 80kWh EV, with 20% SoC remaining. Not wanting to be seen to be "hogging" the charge point & knowing I'll only need to charge up by 50kWhs, I decide to leave it until 10pm.

    In the mean time, a late arriving Leaf (50% SoC) rocks up at 9pm, plugs in, starts charging & is full before midnight. Is that what should happen?
    Or I plug in at 7pm, start charging & reach 100% at 3am @ 7kW or possibly 9am if limited to 3.7kW?

    Simple solution - reduce the charge rate on your Tesla etc., to the 5 amp minimum & leave that sucker plugged in trickle charging :D. Would that be a better solution?

    I've "destination" charged a lot recently & am not playing musical chairs with my car when I'm in/at a hotel. If I arrive & the charge point is occupied, that's my bad & the hotel needs more, or a system in place to reserve it or a concierge service to manage cars needing to use it.

    You could apply the same logic to charging on a ferry to France. A 17 hour sailing but my car could be full after just a few hours while another EV could be in need of a charge but unable to because someone else got there first, or reserved it first etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    You should be charging if you're plugged in to the charger. It's up to you how you fit it into your analogy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,204 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    No etiquette here, first come first served.

    If you can get out to your car to free it up then do so, but there should be no expectation to be moving it at odd hours or messing with timers. You want the car to charge overnight for the following day... that could take 2-3hrs or it could take 10hrs.


    If customers are not getting the access they need it means there are not enough charge points so the real solution is more charge points and the hotel need to be told.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You should be charging if you're plugged in to the charger. It's up to you how you fit it into your analogy.

    So if my car reaches 100% SoC at 4.30am, should I get up & disconnect it? From my cosy, 2000 thread count, Egyptian cotton sheeted hotel bed?

    I thought you were a big proponent for "first come, first served"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,665 ✭✭✭✭ JPA


    Timers etc should not be used at a charge point at a hotel.
    Unless you can guarantee nobody else wants it.

    Charge to 90 if you're worried about the battery.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Kramer wrote: »
    So if my car reaches 100% SoC at 4.30am, should I get up & disconnect it? From my cosy, 2000 thread count, Egyptian cotton sheeted hotel bed?

    I thought you were a big proponent for "first come, first served"?


    Absolutely I am. First come first served. But as equally as I am pro first come first served, I'm opposed to reservations of chargers.


    If you're plugged in and charging, and finish at 4am then there is of course no expectation of anything. I'd argue that -especially in a destination charger at a hotel -once you get there first and are charging then I'd expect the charger out of use until the next day. If I'm at a hotel I'll be having a few beverages and wouldnt be fit to drive the next morning.



    If you're connected during the day and not charging - ie timed charging - that's bad form. I'd expect that a car plugged in and not charging was completed charging and would be moved that day. Not that they had timed charging on. really bad form.

    You joke about lowering the charge curve but this actually is better. The notional other EV would see the charger in use and therefore not expect to use it later and know they have to make other plans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭ tDw6u1bj


    It's a limited resource, it's only fair that you don't hog it and don't view it as "yours".
    The "destination charging" only works in world where every(/an excess of) parking space has a charger.

    You can be considerate and complain to the hotel about not having enough facilitates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭ tDw6u1bj


    Kramer wrote: »
    So if my car reaches 100% SoC at 4.30am, should I get up & disconnect it? From my cosy, 2000 thread count, Egyptian cotton sheeted hotel bed?

    I thought you were a big proponent for "first come, first served"?

    The obvious solution to the 4:30 problem is to require all guests to hand their keys into reception if they're charging at night-time, or some kind of valet parking system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    tDw6u1bj wrote: »
    The obvious solution to the 4:30 problem is to require all guests to hand their keys into reception if they're charging at night-time, or some kind of valet parking system.


    This is quite possibly the most ridiculous suggestion I've ever heard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭ tDw6u1bj


    ELM327 wrote: »
    This is quite possibly the most ridiculous suggestion I've ever heard.

    Why?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Because expecting people to hand in their car keys is nonsense. I'm not giving you the keys to my car. What if I need something from it? What if I dont have a key and it's only my phone? etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,531 ✭✭✭ whippet


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Because expecting people to hand in their car keys is nonsense. I'm not giving you the keys to my car. What if I need something from it? What if I dont have a key and it's only my phone? etc.

    You’ll probably be waking past reception to go to the car and get the key off them there

    Not an outlandish suggestion / idea at all


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,907 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Sorry but I'd not stay in a hotel that had that policy.
    It's a lot easier to make "the rules" fit user behavior than it is to change user behavior. And what you are proposing is a bad system.


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