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United Rugby Championship announced, beginning September 2021

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    #272
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,506 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Former Former Former wrote: »
    The only downside of the new TV deal is that, presumably, the rights money going to the unions is absolute peanuts.

    Meh, it's their own fault.


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    #273
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    The Eir team was very good. A lot better than any of the other channels have done with the ProXX before.

    The problem was not Eir sports but Eir as a company. They are awful to deal with and only people who have to will use their BB. That meant the user base was restricted not because the product was poor but because of the company reputation.

    It would be good if they could take that team and put onto RTE, but I would expect RTE will try and push a load of their inhouse presenters who in the majority are awful

    I have to disagree, never liked the huge amount of chatter from the commentary team, almost a history of every player, how nice their hair was, a constant reminder that we were watching a leinster reserves team, silence for the kicker was never observed and I could never hear what the ref had to say

    Not as bad as Luke Fitz commentating Ireland V Italy, but they were getting there
    Former Former Former wrote: »
    The only downside of the new TV deal is that, presumably, the rights money going to the unions is absolute peanuts.

    I don't think it will be peanuts, and there is supersport in South Africa providing some money plus there's less time spent on hold to RTE when something goes wrong


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    #274
    Dave_The_Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 7,340 ✭✭✭Dave_The_Sheep


    There it is...
    BBC wrote:
    The United Rugby Championship will need financial regulation in the future to compete with the best leagues in world sport, says its chief executive.

    While the English Premiership and French Top 14 both have salary caps, the URC, formerly the Pro14, does not.

    But Martin Anayi told BBC Sport that could change.

    "If you look at any well run professional sport in the world it has a solid salary cap and cost base, and we don't," he said.


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    #275
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »
    There it is...

    Salary Cap definitely needed but there should be a minimum floor level instated as well... Some of the players playing for Southern Kings previously were making R25k a year, that's pretty much an invitation to poach players and completely devalues a team


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    #276
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,240 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    Salary Cap definitely needed but there should be a minimum floor level instated as well... Some of the players playing for Southern Kings previously were making R25k a year, that's pretty much an invitation to poach players and completely devalues a team

    25k Rand. That's like 1500 euro


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    #277
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,610 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    Salary Cap definitely needed but there should be a minimum floor level instated as well... Some of the players playing for Southern Kings previously were making R25k a year, that's pretty much an invitation to poach players and completely devalues a team

    That figure was monthly and was before they joined the pro14.

    Their last season they were spending R3 million a month on salaries for players.


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    #278
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,240 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Cory Hill had left Wales camp to pursue an opportunity overseas. Apparently the wage cuts last year aren't being reversed.


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    #279
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,660 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Red Silurian wrote: »
    I don't think it will be peanuts, and there is supersport in South Africa providing some money plus there's less time spent on hold to RTE when something goes wrong

    It's very unlikely RTÉ and TG4 are paying anything more than a token fee. The South African participation fee is reported to be €10 million per season, working out about 830k per team. That's money for nothing but it's still nothing compared to what the French and English get from TV.


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    #280
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,506 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Former Former Former wrote: »
    It's very unlikely RTÉ and TG4 are paying anything more than a token fee. The South African participation fee is reported to be €10 million per season, working out about 830k per team. That's money for nothing but it's still nothing compared to what the French and English get from TV.

    You can bet your house that the TV deal they are getting now is not what they wanted. The fact it's taking so long to work out who will show what is further indication that it has not been a straightforward sell.

    But when you run your competition in such a half arsed way this is what can happen. Hopefully a lesson learnt.


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    #281
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »
    There it is...

    Introducing a salary cap in the URC will be an absolute nightmare to the point of impossibility due to the vastly different way all the contracts are structured.


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    #282
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,215 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    .... And also single entities owning multiple clubs.

    I'd view the future of the URC looking more like the super rugby system than the prem or top 14


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    #283
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Introducing a salary cap in the URC will be an absolute nightmare to the point of impossibility due to the vastly different way all the contracts are structured.

    Different currencies, different costs of living etc. It would be a tough one to agree on.


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    #284
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    awec wrote: »
    You can bet your house that the TV deal they are getting now is not what they wanted. The fact it's taking so long to work out who will show what is further indication that it has not been a straightforward sell.

    But when you run your competition in such a half arsed way this is what can happen. Hopefully a lesson learnt.

    Tell the truth awec, will you ever admit to being happy with anything the league does?

    I'm really not seeing what there is to be negative about here and yet...


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    #285
    b.gud
    Registered Users Posts: 4,803 ✭✭✭b.gud


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    .... And also single entities owning multiple clubs.

    I'd view the future of the URC looking more like the super rugby system than the prem or top 14

    I'm not aware of the super rugby system could you give a quick tldr of it?


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    #286
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,215 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    b.gud wrote: »
    I'm not aware of the super rugby system could you give a quick tldr of it?

    Well essentially all the NZ sides are part owned by NZRU and financed through a franchise system. Basically NZRU tendered out the running of the clubs (grounds, marketing etc) under license to the NZRU, with the licencees profiting from attendances and associated activities. The NZRU fund the contracts and travel, and get TV monies, sponsorship etc.

    In Australia the system is similar though I'd imagine more finances is directed towards the licencee side due to the financial state of the ARU. Only the western force are fully privatised by a billionaire owner.

    That's my understanding of the system from an outside view.


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    #287
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,660 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Introducing a salary cap in the URC will be an absolute nightmare to the point of impossibility due to the vastly different way all the contracts are structured.

    But that's exactly the point that Anayi is making... That they'll need to think harder and look to other methods


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    #288
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    Talk of a salary cap should be setting off alarm bells for Leinster and possibly Munster. I would imagine they comfortably have the biggest wage bills in the league, and can't imagine too many other teams would be affected by the introduction of one.


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    #289
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,215 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Talk of a salary cap should be setting off alarm bells for Leinster and possibly Munster. I would imagine they comfortably have the biggest wage bills in the league, and can't imagine too many other teams would be affected by the introduction of one.

    I'm not sure.

    Yes I'd imagine they have the most players on the biggest wages, but leinster have consistently promoted from within and have a very high frequency of academy / first contract type player playing 5 - 10 games per season. I'd also imagine that any salary cap will have a "marquee dispensation" similar to the prem which will allow for the likes of a. Sexton and Fardys wages per year.

    Leinster could go a long way with a salary cap similar to the French. If a similar system was introduced here leinster could have a cap of €11 million plus 200k for members of the ireland squad (which would be, on average, about another €7 million going by the last RWC squad). Leinster could do a hell of a lot with a wage bill of even half that, minus the marquee players.

    We know the wage level in Ireland isn't as high as france. ROG has said this in many occasions, and we know Zebo is taking a significant cut to go back to munster.

    I can't see any situation where the IRFU will agree to a wage cap that equates to Irish teams being significantly hampered when it comes to European competition


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    #290
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    A salary cap by province is unworkable.


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    #291
    ineedeuro
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 989 ✭✭✭ineedeuro


    Its and English paper talking about a Salary cap

    How many times have the English tried to change Europe or other countries rugby to try win more games. Don't mind them


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    #292
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,348 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Its and English paper talking about a Salary cap

    How many times have the English tried to change Europe or other countries rugby to try win more games. Don't mind them

    It's not just an English paper. The quotes are from the CEO of the ProXX/URC.


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    #293
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    I'm not sure.

    Yes I'd imagine they have the most players on the biggest wages, but leinster have consistently promoted from within and have a very high frequency of academy / first contract type player playing 5 - 10 games per season. I'd also imagine that any salary cap will have a "marquee dispensation" similar to the prem which will allow for the likes of a. Sexton and Fardys wages per year.

    Leinster could go a long way with a salary cap similar to the French. If a similar system was introduced here leinster could have a cap of €11 million plus 200k for members of the ireland squad (which would be, on average, about another €7 million going by the last RWC squad). Leinster could do a hell of a lot with a wage bill of even half that, minus the marquee players.

    We know the wage level in Ireland isn't as high as france. ROG has said this in many occasions, and we know Zebo is taking a significant cut to go back to munster.

    I can't see any situation where the IRFU will agree to a wage cap that equates to Irish teams being significantly hampered when it comes to European competition

    Not sure what the point of introducing a salary cap that doesn't affect the league's biggest spenders would be. Who would be affected then?
    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Its and English paper talking about a Salary cap

    How many times have the English tried to change Europe or other countries rugby to try win more games. Don't mind them

    Martin Anayi who they're quoting talking about it is the CEO of the league


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    #294
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,215 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ineedeuro wrote: »
    Its and English paper talking about a Salary cap

    How many times have the English tried to change Europe or other countries rugby to try win more games. Don't mind them

    its martin anayi answering questions

    and i think this is his most pertinent response
    "You need a system where you try and peg cost to revenue."

    so essentially as long as IRFU are profitable and running well, they should fall within whatever parameters are set


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    #295
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,215 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Not sure what the point of introducing a salary cap that doesn't affect the league's biggest spenders would be. Who would be affected then?

    its not about competitiveness, its about ensuring survival of clubs by not getting into major debt.


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    #296
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    its not about competitiveness, its about ensuring survival of clubs by not getting into major debt.

    Yes, but by limiting the spending of bigger clubs so that smaller ones aren't getting themselves into debt to compete with wages. Which clubs have been in danger of going under recently? Dragons? There's hardly going to be a salary cap imposed on them.

    Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if it was kite flying from Anayi, wouldn't be the first time.


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    #297
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,215 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Yes, but by limiting the spending of bigger clubs so that smaller ones aren't getting themselves into debt to compete with wages. Which clubs have been in danger of going under recently? Dragons? There's hardly going to be a salary cap imposed on them.

    Anyway I wouldn't be surprised if it was kite flying from Anayi, wouldn't be the first time.

    thats why hes referring to setting it at a parameter of spend v revenue.
    its completely pointless limiting leinsters spending to dragons / zebre level.

    setting it at a level which allows smaller clubs to grown sustainably is the key... but in doing so you are not restricting the spend of larger clubs if they have that sustainable model working already


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    #298
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Former Former Former wrote: »
    But that's exactly the point that Anayi is making... That they'll need to think harder and look to other methods

    That's not exactly the point he is making, he mentions "salary cap" multiple times.

    Even linking revenue to costs is not going to help much in the provinces case (and its worth mentioning that in his US sports examples the salary cap is based on joint revenues and is very much the same for everyone - how does that work across currencies and geographies?). The provincial players, especially the ones on central contracts, are paid for Leinster and Ireland appearances together.


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    #299
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,506 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Tell the truth awec, will you ever admit to being happy with anything the league does?

    I'm really not seeing what there is to be negative about here and yet...

    This is my happy face.


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    #300
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    There's no currency/country issue but the French system requires clubs to spend relative to their own budget. The salary allowances in ProD2 can be pretty huge even for a mid-table club (<>10 million) but can also be a pittance for the less well-off teams.


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    #301
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    pickarooney wrote: »
    There's no currency/country issue but the French system requires clubs to spend relative to their own budget. The salary allowances in ProD2 can be pretty huge even for a mid-table club (<>10 million) but can also be a pittance for the less well-off teams.

    This is more of a financial fair play rule than any kind of salary cap in the sense of what is in the Premiership though.


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