Income Tax decreases on the way?

ineedeuro

Geuze wrote: »

I suggest four rates:

20% - 30% - 40% - 50%

The top 50% rate to start at a minimum of 2x average FT earnings, or 95k-100k approx.

Integrate USC into PRSI, keep that base very broad, no exemptions, make all workers pay PRSI/USC from 100 pw upwards, try to keep the combined rate low.

PRSI/USC should have a ceiling where the top 50% rate starts, so the top combined rate is 50%.

50% on at least 150k and really should be 200k

kowloon

Geuze wrote: »

With higher income taxes?

The 48.5% rate already starts at a very low point, approx 35/36k.

The ultra-wealthy aren't on PAYE and they're definitely not earning 36k. The idea is to push more people into the middle by encouraging people to work on one side and taxing the ultra-wealthy on the other.
The very wealthy obviously don't like this and many people in okay paying jobs who might even benefit from it don't like the idea of someone working in a low paying job getting more because they have a need to feel superior to someone.
For a lot of people who can afford to live comfortably, it's not so much about the money as it is about feeling successful and further up the hierarchy than the retail workers you feel are beneath you.

joseywhales

Some people just like having money, it's not about being neurotic about hierarchy.

It costs a lot of money to retire early for example.

ineedeuro

kowloon wrote: »

The ultra-wealthy aren't on PAYE and they're definitely not earning 36k. The idea is to push more people into the middle by encouraging people to work on one side and taxing the ultra-wealthy on the other.
The very wealthy obviously don't like this and many people in okay paying jobs who might even benefit from it don't like the idea of someone working in a low paying job getting more because they have a need to feel superior to someone.
For a lot of people who can afford to live comfortably, it's not so much about the money as it is about feeling successful and further up the hierarchy than the retail workers you feel are beneath you.

Load of rubbish

The majority of people couldn't care less what someone else is earning. This is the rubbish spouted by people who are constantly trying to pitch battles between people, oh you are in middle class and we are in lower class so we should hate each other.

You hear this from people who are obsessed with what everyone earns, oh they earn 5 euro more than me and that person earns 5 euro less than me.

Antares35

kowloon wrote: »

For a lot of people who can afford to live comfortably, it's not so much about the money as it is about feeling successful and further up the hierarchy than the retail workers you feel are beneath you.

It very much is about the money at the end of the day.

mrslancaster

ineedeuro wrote: »

Load of rubbish

The majority of people couldn't care less what someone else is earning. This is the rubbish spouted by people who are constantly trying to pitch battles between people, oh you are in middle class and we are in lower class so we should hate each other.

You hear this from people who are obsessed with what everyone earns, oh they earn 5 euro more than me and that person earns 5 euro less than me.

In my experience people do care and how different people are taxed or not taxed. Can be very annoying if certain cohorts are not contributing fairly to the pot to pay for services we all use.

joseywhales

mrslancaster wrote: »

In my experience people do care and how different people are taxed or not taxed can be very annoying if certain cohorts are not contributing fairly to the pot to pay for services we all use.

Yeah they care about tax because that is our collective funds for services, that doesn't mean they care what others earn, just that they are paying tax.

Marcos

So six pages in and nobody has remembered that there's a by election on and he's just saying what he thinks will play well in Dublin Bay South?

ineedeuro

mrslancaster wrote: »

In my experience people do care and how different people are taxed or not taxed can be very annoying if certain cohorts are not contributing fairly to the pot to pay for services we all use.

People care about taxes because taxes are used to pay for hospitals/school etc.

Everyone uses these services but it seems only a few are been asked to pay for them. That is unfair do you not think?

This has nothing to do with looking down at someone because they earn a little less than you, this is just asking for people who are earning a living to contribute towards the taxs for the country.

kowloon

ineedeuro wrote: »

You hear this from people who are obsessed with what everyone earns, oh they earn 5 euro more than me and that person earns 5 euro less than me.

So you do hear it then. Some people are petty that way. But it isn't about the money for a lot of them. Are you saying you don't meet people who are all about how important their job is? I meet them all the time. They love stuff like Jordan Peterson talking about hierarchy of competency. It's about social status. They're utterly repulsed by any mention of social equity.

ineedeuro

kowloon wrote: »

So you do hear it then. Some people are petty that way. But it isn't about the money for a lot of them. Are you saying you don't meet people who are all about how important their job is? I meet them all the time. They love stuff like Jordan Peterson talking about hierarchy of competency. It's about social status. They're utterly repulsed by any mention of social equity.

I see lots of people on boards. Blowing about this and that, I run the 4 biggest network in the World was recently proclaimed.

I don't meet people who are all about their job, not that I can remember recently, if I have in the past I walk away.

Lets put it this way, anyone who actually has an important job will never talk about it. Normally the person blowing about how important they are means they have zero power.

(P.S. I dont have an important job )

Mike Murdock

Tax decreases with €12 billion in cuts on the way?

I think it's cute he said it, and that people actually believe it.

ineedeuro

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Tax decreases with €12 billion in cuts on the way?

I think it's cute he said it, and that people actually believe it.

Maybe I am reading it wrong but the article doesn't mention a tax decrease. It would seem to suggest changing the tax system. This would mean I guess that everyone pays tax instead of just hammering the same group everytime.

Something which would get a huge amount of support from some sections of Ireland

oceanman

ineedeuro wrote: »

Maybe I am reading it wrong but the article doesn't mention a tax decrease. It would seem to suggest changing the tax system. This would mean I guess that everyone pays tax instead of just hammering the same group everytime.

Something which would get a huge amount of support from some sections of Ireland

and very little support from other sections..

Murph85

oceanman wrote: »

and very little support from other sections..

From.a fg perspective, who cares... those people don't vote for fg...

ThunbergsAreGo

Murph85 wrote: »

From.a fg perspective, who cares... those people don't vote for fg...

And FG will be in coalition so can blame others for not implementing/changing tax.

Don't believe anything any of them say.

It's all populist rhetoric, those working appear last on all their agendas

Hadron Collider

We are still paying many of the "emergency" taxes that were introduced 12 years ago during the last crash.

Cut taxes now after we have to pay for the cost of Covid? I can't see it.

Regardless, Varadkar makes a good point. A significant portion of the state's tax system is based on luring multinational companies to Ireland with low corporate rates, having them employ workers here, and then subjecting those workers to eye-watering rates of personal taxation.

The presumption to date has been that those workers are forced into being tax resident in Ireland -- i.e., to work for Google or Facebook in Ireland, they have to live in Dublin.

The entire model falls apart if remote working becomes more prevalent.

rob316

Hadron Collider wrote: »

We are still paying many of the "emergency" taxes that were introduced 12 years ago during the last crash.

Cut taxes now after we have to pay for the cost of Covid? I can't see it.

Regardless, Varadkar makes a good point. A significant portion of the state's tax system is based on luring multinational companies to Ireland with low corporate rates, having them employ workers here, and then subjecting those workers to eye-watering rates of personal taxation.

The presumption to date has been that those workers are forced into being tax resident in Ireland -- i.e., to work for Google or Facebook in Ireland, they have to live in Dublin.

The entire model falls apart if remote working becomes more prevalent.

And if the G7 force through this global Corporate Tax rate of 15%, we are royally ****ed I reckon.

Geuze

Hadron Collider wrote: »

Regardless, Varadkar makes a good point. A significant portion of the state's tax system is based on luring multinational companies to Ireland with low corporate rates, having them employ workers here, and then subjecting those workers to eye-watering rates of personal taxation.
.

As has been stated over and over again, effective income tax rates are not high in Ireland.

What is very bad is that people on 36k approx face a marginal tax rate of 48.5%.

The same people do not face a high effective tax rate.

But they do face a very high marginal tax rate.


I often use my parents as an example:

On approx 50k combined they pay 8%-9% direct income tax.

That is extremely low compared to other countries.

thegetawaycar

rob316 wrote: »

And if the G7 force through this global Corporate Tax rate of 15%, we are royally ****ed I reckon.

Just to be clear they can't force it through, if we bend over to it well that's our politicians to blame.

If FG have any sense at all they will move away from trying to compete with SF.

Start actively pushing through what your real base and voters expect. Income tax brackets should be reviewed, expand PRSI to ALL income (including welfare). Remove PUP 2 months after full re-opening. No more "Christmas bonus", no social only developments (especially in the city centre), mixed developments only. Update the planning rules and make higher density between the canals in Dublin a priority. Build at least 2 large prisons outside towns that need the jobs they would bring and start locking up serial offenders for proper periods.

Trying to throw crumbs at everyone just means nobody is happy and SF/opposition promise more to all. They will never get the free for all onboard and they should move away from trying to placate them.

If they had any type of political sense they'd be hammering home SF and their longing for MHQ leading to job losses, they'd be opening all now ASAP since it's clear vaccines work and start using antigen testing to get the airline industry moving.

Supposed to be the party of those who get up early in the morning start acting like it.

Mimon

rob316 wrote: »

And if the G7 force through this global Corporate Tax rate of 15%, we are royally ****ed I reckon.

15% is the minimum rate which is not much bigger than our 12.5%

Companies will still have to have most of their European workeforce here to avail of the 12.5%

Mimon

rob316 wrote: »

And if the G7 force through this global Corporate Tax rate of 15%, we are royally ****ed I reckon.

15% is the minimum rate which is not much bigger than our 12.5%

Companies will still have to have most of their European workeforce here to avail of our rates.

tjhook

Geuze wrote: »

As has been stated over and over again, effective income tax rates are not high in Ireland.

It depends on your income level.

At lower income levels, the income tax paid is less in Ireland than in most other countries. At higher income levels, the tax paid in Ireland is relatively high compared to other countries.

See this Irish Times article form 2019...

A sample of 8 countries including Ireland, Germany, UK, Singapore, Sweden, Switzerland, France, USA. All well developed 1st world countries, and including some with a reputation for high taxation.

At an income of €25k, Ireland had the second lowest income tax tax paid. At €100k, we had the third highest.

Overall, income taxation in Ireland is low. But that hides a huge variation across income levels.

Geuze

tjhook wrote: »

It depends on your income level.

At lower income levels, the income tax paid is less in Ireland than in most other countries. At higher income levels, the tax paid in Ireland is relatively high compared to other countries.

Yes, correct, our PIT system is very progressive.

COVID illustrated this - hundreds of thousands laid off and income tax receipts hardly budged.

Indeed, did I read that our PIT system is the most progressive in the world?


http://www.publicpolicyarchive.ie/ireland-has-the-most-progressive-income-tax-system-in-the-eu-2/

OK, the most progressive in the EU.

Capt'n Midnight

It's almost as if there's a by election in a leafy suburb coming up soon.