Dearth of young farmers

Bass Reeves

Stihl waters wrote: »

There would be more young farmers if the crowd that went before them relinquished control at an earlier age, what opportunities has any young farmer to look forward too if they don't get the farm until they're mid 30s or older when all their peers have viable businesses and careers established with a decade or more
If they're going to get the farm they should have full say by the time they're 30 at the latest to have any chance of making a good shot of it.
How many businesses do we see men in their 70s and 80s still working and the son or daughter waiting in the sidelines for him to die to get the business, not many apart from farming, if the farm is viable pass it on and dont have your child waiting for you to kick the bucket so they can take over in their mid 40s 10 years too late playing catch up with outdated equipment only to repeat the cycle with their own, a more business like approach to farming without all the sentimentality and we'd be a lot more professional in our outlook with a lot more young farmers in the mix

There a solution to that go out and set up a farm business yourself buy the land, the stock it easy enough solved

Kevhog1988

With the aging farmer population will it become any way easier for someone who isnt due to inherit a farm to get going?.

Bass Reeves

Dickie10 wrote: »

If i may give one piece of advice it is to try and keep your off farm wages going into a separate bank account. That way all farm purchases and farm cheques are working out of the one account, its a great way of quickly knowing if your farm is washing its face. Hopefully you wont need to dip into your bank account for farm bills.

It can take a while but it a good bit of advice. As well you can use it to keep you accounts clean. I now use the card for a farm/ business expenses. I try to pay all allowable expenses from the farm account. Vehicles, taxes, insurances, maintenance and nct's etc. Phone bills, house insurance etc. Even now if I am getting dog and cat food I split the shopping and pay for the dog and cat foot with the farm card. I still keep the receipts but it cleaner for tax purposes after. I tap at toll booths with it as well.

wrangler

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

With the aging farmer population will it become any way easier for someone who isnt due to inherit a farm to get going?.

I thought that too but the expansion in dairying is keeping land prices and demand up now in a lot of counties.
Fierce competition for land around here if the land is good

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There a solution to that go out and set up a farm business yourself buy the land, the stock it easy enough solved

Easy on the late night boozing now Bass......,

wrangler

Stihl waters wrote: »

There would be more young farmers if the crowd that went before them relinquished control at an earlier age, what opportunities has any young farmer to look forward too if they don't get the farm until they're mid 30s or older when all their peers have viable businesses and careers established with a decade or more
If they're going to get the farm they should have full say by the time they're 30 at the latest to have any chance of making a good shot of it.
How many businesses do we see men in their 70s and 80s still working and the son or daughter waiting in the sidelines for him to die to get the business, not many apart from farming, if the farm is viable pass it on and dont have your child waiting for you to kick the bucket so they can take over in their mid 40s 10 years too late playing catch up with outdated equipment only to repeat the cycle with their own, a more business like approach to farming without all the sentimentality and we'd be a lot more professional in our outlook with a lot more young farmers in the mix

To take over the farm at thirty, your parents are likely to be under sixty and you'd have to be gearing the farm for a second income. Farms need high investment and it's difficult to do the investment over the years and have a proper pension at sixty.
I don't know if there's too many young people interested in putting in that sort of effort

Wildsurfer

wrangler wrote: »

To take over the farm at thirty, your parents are likely to be under sixty and you'd have to be gearing the farm for a second income. Farms need high investment and it's difficult to do the investment over the years and have a proper pension at sixty.
I don't know if there's too many young people interested in putting in that sort of effort

Farms are getting bigger now though so an upcoming son or daughter will be replacing hired labour. Partnerships very common now too which are a great way of introducing the next generation to the business with the added benefits of extra grants etc. I wish I was going to be under 60 when/if one of my lads hit 30, you'd get a power of work done! Not too many lads are getting married at 30 anymore!

wrangler

Wildsurfer wrote: »

Farms are getting bigger now though so an upcoming son or daughter will be replacing hired labour. Partnerships very common now too which are a great way of introducing the next generation to the business with the added benefits of extra grants etc. I wish I was going to be under 60 when/if one of my lads hit 30, you'd get a power of work done! Not too many lads are getting married at 30 anymore!

Ther'd be a good few farmers that are taking over now whose parents were married under thirty. A lot of my vintage were married under thirty....... there wasn't much money for travel and partying then
There won't be many family farms around by the time the present thirty year olds have 30 yr old children.

A neighbour here gave his grandson his entitlements built up on rented land worth a lot of money.
He sold them after about five years or less..... that went down well

Stihl waters

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There a solution to that go out and set up a farm business yourself buy the land, the stock it easy enough solved

That's one solution but for a young farmer to get investment off banks and try and buy a farm with established farmers also in competition for the same farm would be very difficult, possible but not something every young farmer would be able to achieve

Stihl waters

wrangler wrote: »

Ther'd be a good few farmers that are taking over now whose parents were married under thirty. A lot of my vintage were married under thirty....... there wasn't much money for travel and partying then
There won't be many family farms around by the time the present thirty year olds have 30 yr old children.

A neighbour here gave his grandson his entitlements built up on rented land worth a lot of money.
He sold them after about five years or less..... that went down well

Why give it away if he wasnt happy with the possibility it might have been sold on, all these questions should be ironed out beforehand, if he didn't give them with away knowing they could have been sold on then he was a little naive, some young farmers wouldn't have the same attachment as the generation that went before them

Bass Reeves

Wildsurfer wrote: »

Farms are getting bigger now though so an upcoming son or daughter will be replacing hired labour. Partnerships very common now too which are a great way of introducing the next generation to the business with the added benefits of extra grants etc. I wish I was going to be under 60 when/if one of my lads hit 30, you'd get a power of work done! Not too many lads are getting married at 30 anymore!

I do not know what people fixation is with 60 or 65 is. People now are.much more active into there 70's . While farms are getting bigger income is not increasing on par wit farm size. As well will a son or daughter will be replacing labour that is costing 12-14 euro/ hour.

Bass Reeves

Dunedin wrote: »

Easy on the late night boozing now Bass......,

In Holland and France to an extent sons or daughter taking over parents farms borrow substantially and buy out there parents. Thirty then pay it back over 15-30 years before rinse and repeat after 30+ years. This money is used to fund the retirement of the older generations. With many drystock farms part time most lads owning them use them to supplement there pension. For dairying unless there is a substantial pension plan in place then it's a difficult ask to expect a person to live on the OAP after spending a life investing and building a substantial asset

Mooooo

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In Holland and France to an extent sons or daughter taking over parents farms borrow substantially and buy out there parents. Thirty then pay it back over 15-30 years before rinse and repeat after 30+ years. This money is used to fund the retirement of the older generations. With many drystock farms part time most lads owning them use them to supplement there pension. For dairying unless there is a substantial pension plan in place then it's a difficult ask to expect a person to live on the OAP after spending a life investing and building a substantial asset

In Holland the capital cost can be written off against taxable income as well, unlike here. Higher tax if sold then but not sure if there is a mechanism there for selling to a successor etc

K.G.

As far as I can see this all comes down to attitude but one little thing I d like to ask the original poster is what does he mean by a "stimulating conversation ".despite the negativity on display in this thread it still has given me a bit of food for thought

wrangler

Stihl waters wrote: »

Why give it away if he wasnt happy with the possibility it might have been sold on, all these questions should be ironed out beforehand, if he didn't give them with away knowing they could have been sold on then he was a little naive, some young farmers wouldn't have the same attachment as the generation that went before them

The guy was 75+, at that age you just have to let go and not worry.
As I said before, young people who are set up in life would be handicapped in getting a farm unless to sell immediately and forfeit the tax involved.. It'd mean a huge change in lifestyle then if it cleared the mortgage for them

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

The guy was 75+, at that age you just have to let go and not worry.
As I said before, young people who are set up in life would be handicapped in getting a farm unless to sell immediately and forfeit the tax involved.. It'd mean a huge change in lifestyle then if it cleared the mortgage for them

TBH I think wrangler a lot depends on the situation. A mortgage is the cheapest money you will ever borrow. For many it will even be cheaper than Investment borrowing even after tax.

If they can work there career around the farm well and good. If they cannot then it probably a no no. However leasing would be more efficient than selling especially as it's tax free.

However a drystock farm that is technically not making a profit may be paying a good portion ESB telephone, car and insurance costs, even heating and bins. Down the line it may pay for college and allow other investment.

It's the fixation with full-time farming or having to give up a good job to go farming that may be the problem. There is huge benefits of being a sole trader especially if you have a decent job as well.

390kid

Kevhog1988 wrote: »

With the aging farmer population will it become any way easier for someone who isnt due to inherit a farm to get going?.

You’d think that but I personally don’t think it will be. To get money to buy land you need a business plan that’s making money, to get that you need your own business accounts from a leased farm, to lease a farm your nearly looking at 250-300 an acre and no with cattle and sheep farming and I can’t see that adding up. That’s my own personal predicament I’m caught in. Maybe yours or other people have different ones.

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In Holland and France to an extent sons or daughter taking over parents farms borrow substantially and buy out there parents. Thirty then pay it back over 15-30 years before rinse and repeat after 30+ years. This money is used to fund the retirement of the older generations. With many drystock farms part time most lads owning them use them to supplement there pension. For dairying unless there is a substantial pension plan in place then it's a difficult ask to expect a person to live on the OAP after spending a life investing and building a substantial asset

You are living in cokoo land if you think it’s viable for any person to start from scratch to buy farm, stock it, buy tractor and the basic machinery, maybe build sheds, possibly fence it. A 50 acre farm of any decent quality will up against €500,000 and add on another circa €100 or 200,000 for the others.

maidhc

wrangler wrote: »

As I said before, young people who are set up in life would be handicapped in getting a farm unless to sell immediately and forfeit the tax involved.. It'd mean a huge change in lifestyle then if it cleared the mortgage for them

With all due respect you are talking unsubstantiated rubbish.

Everyone’s situation is different. I can say with certainty that running a dry stock farm part time can make financial sense. People above have given various examples of how. Then there is the lifestyle element.

maidhc

Dunedin wrote: »

You are living in cokoo land if you think it’s viable for any person to start from scratch to buy farm, stock it, buy tractor and the basic machinery, maybe build sheds, possibly fence it. A 50 acre farm of any decent quality will up against €500,000 and add on another circa €100 or 200,000 for the others.

I agree with this. Buying land and getting going is too capital intensive for almost anyone.

K.G.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In Holland and France to an extent sons or daughter taking over parents farms borrow substantially and buy out there parents. Thirty then pay it back over 15-30 years before rinse and repeat after 30+ years. This money is used to fund the retirement of the older generations. With many drystock farms part time most lads owning them use them to supplement there pension. For dairying unless there is a substantial pension plan in place then it's a difficult ask to expect a person to live on the OAP after spending a life investing and building a substantial asset

How many on here would be farming if they had to buy their farm,max 1 in 5 if say

Castlekeeper

K.G. wrote: »

How many on here would be farming if they had to buy their farm,max 1 in 5 if say

In the lines of the European situation where everything is set up for it, it wouldnt bother me at all.

Dunedin

Castlekeeper wrote: »

In the lines of the European situation where everything is set up for it, it wouldnt bother me at all.

It’s Ireland we’re talking about. I’d say 1 in 100 would be more like it.

green daries

Dunedin wrote: »

It’s Ireland we’re talking about. I’d say 1 in 100 would be more like it.

Nobody in Ireland would ever buy a farm and earn a living from it without serious financial backing

Bass Reeves

green daries wrote: »

Nobody in Ireland would ever buy a farm and earn a living from it without serious financial backing

Who said earn a living off it. This is the misconception that people have. I entitled to a living if I farm. There is no asking about what amount of land you require or what hours you put into it. You could run a 100acre drystock farm in 18 hours a week.
If you bought a 300 acre mountain farm you could draw about 28k in payments before you start to stock it. GLAS, hen Harriet or other payments would be on top of that. You would run the ace again in 20 hours a week.

It the mentality with farming where a large cohort can not understand how to farm how to turn a profit and they feel it has to be full time occupation

Bass Reeves

K.G. wrote: »

How many on here would be farming if they had to buy their farm,max 1 in 5 if say

Probably 1 in 20-30. But buying land focuses the mind. You understand it's a business. You learn how to maximize return not output.

The land is only part of what lads get they often get another 100-150k in stock, sheds and machinery and there is a good few you would not put in charge of a henhouse and I am not talking about a modern henhouse but a backyard one

GNWoodd

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Who said earn a living off it. This is the misconception that people have. I entitled to a living if I farm. There is no asking about what amount of land you require or what hours you put into it. You could run a 100acre drystock farm in 18 hours a week.
If you bought a 300 acre mountain farm you could draw about 28k in payments before you start to stock it. GLAS, hen Harriet or other payments would be on top of that. You would run the ace again in 20 hours a week.

It the mentality with farming where a large cohort can not understand how to farm how to turn a profit and they feel it has to be full time occupation

There are very few farms of 100 acres in the West of Ireland that could be maintained in 18 hours per week .
Saying that GLAS would add to income is only correct if the the landowner could have his / her application accepted .
I tried three times to access it when it was available and failed !

green daries

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Who said earn a living off it. This is the misconception that people have. I entitled to a living if I farm. There is no asking about what amount of land you require or what hours you put into it. You could run a 100acre drystock farm in 18 hours a week.
If you bought a 300 acre mountain farm you could draw about 28k in payments before you start to stock it. GLAS, hen Harriet or other payments would be on top of that. You would run the ace again in 20 hours a week.

It the mentality with farming where a large cohort can not understand how to farm how to turn a profit and they feel it has to be full time occupation

I said earn a living off. it simple enough statement I would have thought

Dunedin

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you bought a 300 acre mountain farm you could draw about 28k in payments before you start to stock it. GLAS, hen Harriet or other payments would be on top of that. You would run the ace again in 20 hours a week.

It the mentality with farming where a large cohort can not understand how to farm how to turn a profit and they feel it has to be full time occupation

And if I won the lotto I could live off the interest.

Let’s get real here. Firstly, how many 300 acre mountain farms are there- not many I’d say. Secondly, I wouldn’t think you get it for nothing either.

Your initial point here was that people could get into farming by buying a farm and stocking it. If you’re to consider that then it has to be average land at average price. Is land averaging €10k an acre at the minute - not far off it if not. My figures earlier of €500-700k would be in the ballpark area for a 50 acre farm with stock and set up. Who has that money - not many. What bank would give it - not many. What profit would 50 acre dry stock farm give - would hardly meet the repayments.

I’m moving on now as have to mow the lawn.

maidhc

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Probably 1 in 20-30. But buying land focuses the mind. You understand it's a business. You learn how to maximize return not output.

The land is only part of what lads get they often get another 100-150k in stock, sheds and machinery and there is a good few you would not put in charge of a henhouse and I am not talking about a modern henhouse but a backyard one

The return isn’t there though. You will drop 2m on buying any decent size farm, then another 1m on getting it stocked and ready for dairy. There is some repaying in 3m! And I only say dairy as that is the best paying.

Separately, You can run a 100 acre dry stock farm with 7-10 hours a week. Anyone who tries to make a full time job of it is doing something wrong.

Donald Trump

Mooooo wrote: »

In Holland the capital cost can be written off against taxable income as well, unlike here. Higher tax if sold then but not sure if there is a mechanism there for selling to a successor etc

That would only increase prices to the benefit of anyone selling. I don't think it would have a huge effect overall.


It would make lads buying land through a company structure less competitive relatively speaking. As of now, they have 87.50 from 100 Euro profit to put towards land. Whereas the high income sole trader only had about 50 Euro from that same 100 to put towards land


What you would be proposing would (roughly) leave them both with the 100 to put towards land.

yosemitesam1

maidhc wrote: »

The return isn’t there though. You will drop 2m on buying any decent size farm, then another 1m on getting it stocked and ready for dairy. There is some repaying in 3m! And I only say dairy as that is the best paying.

Separately, You can run a 100 acre dry stock farm with 7-10 hours a week. Anyone who tries to make a full time job of it is doing something wrong.

That's the very problem. There's a massive lack of creativity out there. You'd swear there was only one or two proper ways to farm

kevthegaff

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

That's the very problem. There's a massive lack of creativity out there. You'd swear there was only one or two proper ways to farm

Say you have a food job, buy 30 acres with an old house for say 200 renovate the house. Farm it and if land beside comes up, add to it. Say you can clear 7 or 8k per year incl payments. The land will pay for itself over a long period of time

MIKEKC

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Who said earn a living off it. This is the misconception that people have. I entitled to a living if I farm. There is no asking about what amount of land you require or what hours you put into it. You could run a 100acre drystock farm in 18 hours a week.
If you bought a 300 acre mountain farm you could draw about 28k in payments before you start to stock it. GLAS, hen Harriet or other payments would be on top of that. You would run the ace again in 20 hours a week.

It the mentality with farming where a large cohort can not understand how to farm how to turn a profit and they feel it has to be full time occupation

Please give a breakdown of the 28,000.

GNWoodd

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

That's the very problem. There's a massive lack of creativity out there. You'd swear there was only one or two proper ways to farm

So enlighten us as to how it should be done.
100 acres West of the Shannon that can be managed properly in ten hours a week

yosemitesam1

GNWoodd wrote: »

So enlighten us as to how it should be done.
100 acres West of the Shannon that can be managed properly in ten hours a week

There's no one size fits all. But if your goal is to go out and earn a living by using your capital in the least efficient way of course you're going to struggle.
100k invested right could give you a fulltime wage farming starting from scratch if you were willing to be open minded about what your definition of farming is.

GNWoodd

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

There's no one size fits all. But if your goal is to go out and earn a living by using your capital in the least efficient way of course you're going to struggle.
100k invested right could give you a fulltime wage farming starting from scratch if you were willing to be open minded about what your definition of farming is.

Two points . 100 acres cannot be managed properly in anything like ten or so hours per week .
More importantly though is the thinking behind managing a farm with minimal input time wise.
It is akin to an employer saying to a once full time employee- we will continue to cut your wages every year as we have done for the last twenty years or so but you only have to come in ten hours per week .
If the employee has the same outgoings as heretofore that forces him / her into working two or more jobs .
It is a dangerous ideology as it allows those who , eg run the meat factories to say you are only working ten hours a week on the farm so why would you not accept what we are paying you .

It has been a principle of proper trade unionism over the decades that one good proper job should equal one living wage.
That , however , seems to have been lost by those representing farmers a long time ago .

yosemitesam1

GNWoodd wrote: »

Two points . 100 acres cannot be managed properly in anything like ten or so hours per week .
More importantly though is the thinking behind managing a farm with minimal input time wise.
It is akin to an employer saying to a once full time employee- we will continue to cut your wages every year as we have done for the last twenty years or so but you only have to come in ten hours per week .
If the employee has the same outgoings as heretofore that forces him / her into working two or more jobs .
It is a dangerous ideology as it allows those who , eg run the meat factories to say you are only working ten hours a week on the farm so why would you not accept what we are paying you .

It has been a principle of proper trade unionism over the decades that one good proper job should equal one living wage.
That , however , seems to have been lost by those representing farmers a long time ago .

Nonsense. Being more efficient with time is not the same as cutting corners

Limestone Cowboy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Who said earn a living off it. This is the misconception that people have. I entitled to a living if I farm. There is no asking about what amount of land you require or what hours you put into it. You could run a 100acre drystock farm in 18 hours a week.
If you bought a 300 acre mountain farm you could draw about 28k in payments before you start to stock it. GLAS, hen Harriet or other payments would be on top of that. You would run the ace again in 20 hours a week.

It the mentality with farming where a large cohort can not understand how to farm how to turn a profit and they feel it has to be full time occupation

I'm actually agree with the most of that Bass, It's probably more common around here with fellas having fairly big acreage of poor land but there's a good bit of money to be drawn out of it if you're cute enough. I know a farm not to far from me that had 360 acres (rough Burren land) and 2 storey house sold for 400k 5 or 6 years ago. Would have easily drawn 30k a year out of it and the house wasn't in bad shape either. If you put 20 sucklers on it they would never need a bit, surely have 10k worth of cattle to sell. Wouldn't have been long paying for itself.

Stihl waters

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

I'm actually agree with the most of that Bass, It's probably more common around here with fellas having fairly big acreage of poor land but there's a good bit of money to be drawn out of it if you're cute enough. I know a farm not to far from me that had 360 acres (rough Burren land) and 2 storey house sold for 400k 5 or 6 years ago. Would have easily drawn 30k a year out of it and the house wasn't in bad shape either. If you put 20 sucklers on it they would never need a bit, surely have 10k worth of cattle to sell. Wouldn't have been long paying for itself.

400k in 1 lump minus whatever fees owed is not comparable to 40 k a year over 35 years if you have a good job outside of farming, fair enough if you're willing to give it a go but it would be hard to turn down that sort of money if you had no great interest in farming

coolshannagh28

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Who said earn a living off it. This is the misconception that people have. I entitled to a living if I farm. There is no asking about what amount of land you require or what hours you put into it. You could run a 100acre drystock farm in 18 hours a week.
If you bought a 300 acre mountain farm you could draw about 28k in payments before you start to stock it. GLAS, hen Harriet or other payments would be on top of that. You would run the ace again in 20 hours a week.

It the mentality with farming where a large cohort can not understand how to farm how to turn a profit and they feel it has to be full time occupation

If you could avoid Heavy Metal disease, farm sensibly and draw all the subs available and which will increase substantially over the next 10 years there could be a lot of profit and pleasure drawn from a farm like this.

Bass Reeves

MIKEKC wrote: »

Please give a breakdown of the 28,000.

300 acres is 120 HA. Convergence will bring BPS to 200/HA at least in this caps lifetime. At present a young trained young farmer (and this thread about young farmers) is getting a top up on part of his BPS 60/HA( I think) on 50HA.

120 units at 200/HA is 24K
ANC is max out at 4240 euro.

On that land area if you cannot max your what ever replaces GLAS at 5-6K you do not deserve to be farming.

Running one ewe to the acre at a lamb sale percentage of 80% gives you 12K in lamb sales at 50/lamb. Culling 50 ewes/year @ 50/ewe gives another 2.5K.


28K in payments and 15k in sales. 15K should cover any costs as ;ong as you are realistic and decide you do not a sub 10 year old Landcruiser, a 15-20K quad and a 30-40k tractor

Gawddawggonnit

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Not many grants drawn down here, parlour is about it
We've done the rest at full cost

What ever way the thing goes we'll just have to deal with it and make as best of the situation

I was expecting more substance to your response, to be fair. You played me, not my post, I expected more....

Gawddawggonnit

Rutger Bregman, a Dutch lad that was invited to speak at the WEC in Davos, spoke many truths, and still does, but remains as popular as cancer...


The main problem with the opportunity/affordability of young people entering farming is the price of land. Who here would like to see more young blood entering farming? I suppose all of ye would put your hands up?
Well...
firstly, ye’re great at quoting France, so here goes.
French farmland is not allowed to become an investment asset. There’s absolutely no speculation allowed on farmland. Only farmers can buy/sell land. No non-farmers allowed. No financial investment allowed, if the reward is capital appreciation, then you’re not allowed to invest. No buying land to let allowed. Letting of land is controlled...rental prices controlled and regulated according to farmers returns on a good or bad year. Etc etc etc etc etc etc.

As Bregman would ask, are ye willing to allow the arse to fall out of the value of farmland to see the new/younger generation get set up...?

I didn’t think so.

straight

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Rutger Bregman, a Dutch lad that was invited to speak at the WEC in Davos, spoke many truths, and still does, but remains as popular as cancer...


The main problem with the opportunity/affordability of young people entering farming is the price of land. Who here would like to see more young blood entering farming? I suppose all of ye would put your hands up?
Well...
firstly, ye’re great at quoting France, so here goes.
French farmland is not allowed to become an investment asset. There’s absolutely no speculation allowed on farmland. Only farmers can buy/sell land. No non-farmers allowed. No financial investment allowed, if the reward is capital appreciation, then you’re not allowed to invest. No buying land to let allowed. Letting of land is controlled...rental prices controlled and regulated according to farmers returns on a good or bad year. Etc etc etc etc etc etc.

As Bregman would ask, are ye willing to allow the arse to fall out of the value of farmland to see the new/younger generation get set up...?

I didn’t think so.

I'd be happy with that. I would have thought most farmers would be. Trying to buy an outside block myself at the moment and the bank guy told me 70% of land sold now is bought by rich investors. They can collect the rent tax free while the farmer does all the work. I think he said 70 anyway, I know it sounds high.

maidhc

GNWoodd wrote: »

So enlighten us as to how it should be done.
100 acres West of the Shannon that can be managed properly in ten hours a week

Going back to the thread title, why would a young person or anyone waste their lives trying to eke out a living from marginal land that probably should be planted? Who actually wants to spend 30 hours a week chasing “free range” sucklers and cutting hay with a fingerbar because the ground is too stony for anything else???!?

No encouragement or praise should be doled out for inefficiencies.

I can manage 100+ acres easily enough. I probably contribute 8-10 hours a week, and help for 6/7, but we do our own silage, slurry etc. It’s good land with good access.

As follows:

Summer
1) check cattle, move as needed 4x hours
2) fert and topping, maybe average 2x hours a week.
3) dosing 3x hours every few months.
4) silage 120 hours a year (across 3x hired help + me)
5) slurry about 40 hours a year (3x days x 2 Labour units one day in Jan + a day after each of the silage cuts)
6) fencing / water 20 hours a yea

Winter
1) feed cattle 2x or 3x a week, 3 hrs
2) push in silage on intermediate days 30 mins.
3) look after stock issues as arise (almost nil with rubber slats)

That’s it folks, for about 90 cattle.

green daries

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Rutger Bregman, a Dutch lad that was invited to speak at the WEC in Davos, spoke many truths, and still does, but remains as popular as cancer...


The main problem with the opportunity/affordability of young people entering farming is the price of land. Who here would like to see more young blood entering farming? I suppose all of ye would put your hands up?
Well...
firstly, ye’re great at quoting France, so here goes.
French farmland is not allowed to become an investment asset. There’s absolutely no speculation allowed on farmland. Only farmers can buy/sell land. No non-farmers allowed. No financial investment allowed, if the reward is capital appreciation, then you’re not allowed to invest. No buying land to let allowed. Letting of land is controlled...rental prices controlled and regulated according to farmers returns on a good or bad year. Etc etc etc etc etc etc.

As Bregman would ask, are ye willing to allow the arse to fall out of the value of farmland to see the new/younger generation get set up...?

I didn’t think so.

I would be in favour of everything you have talked about there farmland being used as an investment vehicle is a crime as far as I'm concerned

coolshannagh28

maidhc wrote: »

Going back to the thread title, why would a young person or anyone waste their lives trying to eke out a living from marginal land that probably should be planted? Who actually wants to spend 30 hours a week chasing “free range” sucklers and cutting hay with a fingerbar because the ground is too stony for anything else???!?

No encouragement or praise should be doled out for inefficiencies.

I can manage 100+ acres easily enough. I probably contribute 8-10 hours a week, and help for 6/7, but we do our own silage, slurry etc. It’s good land with good access.

As follows:

Summer
1) check cattle, move as needed 4x hours
2) fert and topping, maybe average 2x hours a week.
3) dosing 3x hours every few months.
4) silage 120 hours a year (across 3x hired help + me)
5) slurry about 40 hours a year (3x days x 2 Labour units one day in Jan + a day after each of the silage cuts)
6) fencing / water 20 hours a yea

Winter
1) feed cattle 2x or 3x a week, 3 hrs
2) push in silage on intermediate days 30 mins.
3) look after stock issues as arise (almost nil with rubber slats)

That’s it folks, for about 90 cattle.

Thats all any drystock farmer should be doing anyway and would many prefer the pleasure of working in marginal upland areas with the diversity of wildlife, landscape and views to the bland monotony of "better land"

MIKEKC

MIKEKC wrote: »

Please give a breakdown of the 28,000.

Can't reach that figure without stock

Bass Reeves

MIKEKC wrote: »

Can't reach that figure without stock

I taught we were talking about people farming. The required minimum stocking level for such a farm to collect ANC is 18 LU for a full year or 36 for 7 months.

The 18 is equivalent to 120 mature sheep. They could be weathers as far as the department is concerned. You could have 9 donkeys and 60 sheep if you liked.

On that land bank 120-130 ewes would be an easy carry. In general.on mountain land a ewe to an acre is easily carried. I have seen very few mountain farms with out a few green fields unless they are purely commage.

As I gave in my example earlier 300 ewes would net about 15k in turnover. There are other income streams as well. If there is an old farmhouse you can do it up for holiday rentals, with AerBnB you even get people during the winter for 2-3 day hill walking holidays and they pay well.

As well there is a serious amount of deer on our mountains lads pay well for land to shoot on. If you had a holiday home on it they rent that as well.

The young progressive farmer 6-8 miles away that has his 3 cows to the HA will even put slurry on your few fields to get maps for nitrates if might even pay you a few bob for nitrates maps along with the slurry.

I say we are not far off 50k now