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remains of 215 children found buried near residential school in Canada

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,064 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I've no idea. It might be high, it might be average or it might be low.


    I was counting up the number of people I know who would have died before 25. When I went through it, the number was a bit shocking.

    You know 2% of all kids don't die in Ireland every year. Stop saying it might be average or low. Your year was massively unfortunate (not saying it doesn't happen, take enough groups of 100 kids and you will likely get 2 deaths in at least 1 of the groups but the vast majority of groups would not see 2 or even any deaths).

    It is miles above the Irish average in an attempt to muddy the waters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    By reports seems TB was the biggest killer at the time due to a lack of medical interventions ,most places likely had no access to anything but the bare basics of medicine ,
    TB , measles,flu and numerous other infections and diseases would have gone through homes like wildfires , there is probably similar number of deaths in isolated communities with lack of medical care at the time ,


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Gatling wrote: »
    By reports seems TB was the biggest killer at the time due to a lack of medical interventions ,most places likely had no access to anything but the bare basics of medicine ,
    TB , measles,flu and numerous other infections and diseases would have gone through homes like wildfires , there is probably similar number of deaths in isolated communities with lack of medical care at the time ,
    And the issue still goes back to the graves being unmarked and deaths often being entirely undocumented.... You're aware of how many have searched for lost love ones who turned out to be unmarked graves in Ireland alone, right? These same people didn't know if they were dead or alive for decades. The cause of death is a potential issue but not the sole one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,064 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Gatling wrote: »
    By reports seems TB was the biggest killer at the time due to a lack of medical interventions ,most places likely had no access to anything but the bare basics of medicine ,
    TB , measles,flu and numerous other infections and diseases would have gone through homes like wildfires , there is probably similar number of deaths in isolated communities with lack of medical care at the time ,

    Source for this claim? I have seen evidence of the rate of death being far higher than the reset of Canada. I have seen no source saying the rate of deaths is the same as in isolated communities.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Gatling wrote: »
    By reports seems TB was the biggest killer at the time due to a lack of medical interventions ,most places likely had no access to anything but the bare basics of medicine ,
    TB , measles,flu and numerous other infections and diseases would have gone through homes like wildfires , there is probably similar number of deaths in isolated communities with lack of medical care at the time ,

    Jesus!

    It's not about the cause of death its the fact these children were taken from thier families, the children died and were dumped In unmarked graves.

    Imagine never knowing what happened to your child after they were taken from you, never knowing if they grew up and had children of thoer own and then hearing this news and now wondering if your child is in one of those unmarked graves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I've no idea. It might be high, it might be average or it might be low.


    I was counting up the number of people I know who would have died before 25. When I went through it, the number was a bit shocking.

    So not two people every year then? Two people over your whole school life, so about 12/13 years?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Pussyhands


    Irish people acted like it was the irish priests and nun responsible...maybe it's just scumbags that were in on this...been multiple similar findings.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,603 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/newly-discovered-b-c-graves-a-grim-reminder-of-the-heartbreaking-death-toll-of-residential-schools
    The result is that many of Canada’s most notorious residential schools sit amid sprawling cemeteries of unmarked children’s graves.

    The Battleford Industrial School in Saskatchewan has 72 graves that lay forgotten until rediscovered by archaeology students in the 1970s. In 2001, heavy rains outside High River, Alta., exposed the coffins of 34 children who had died at nearby Dunbow Residential School. In 2019, archaeologists using ground-penetrating radar found the crudely dug graves of as many as 15 children surrounding the former site of Saskatchewan’s Muskowekwan Residential School.

    More than 2,800 names are logged on a memorial register maintained by the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation. The chair of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, Justice Murray Sinclair, has said the true number of deaths could be as high as 6,000.

    One third of children who died at a residential school did not have their names recorded by school administrators. One quarter were marked as deceased without even their gender being noted. Among the 2,800 names on the official memorial register are children known to recorded history only as “Alice,” “Mckay” or “Elsie.”

    “It’s staggering to think that families would not have known what happened to a child that was sent off to the residential schools,” Ontario Chief Coroner Andrew McCallum said in 2012 as his office began an inquest into unrecorded residential school deaths.

    The deadly reputations of residential schools were well-known to officials at the time. Kuper Island Residential School, located near Chemainus, B.C., saw the deaths of nearly one third of its student population in the years following its opening in 1889. “The Indians are inclined to boycott this school on account of so many deaths,” wrote a school inspector in 1922.

    Exacerbating the death rate was the absence of even the most rudimentary medical care. Survivors described classmates becoming increasingly listless with TB until they were quietly removed by authorities.

    But probably the most resonant of residential school deaths was the number of children who froze or drowned while attempting to run away. Several dozen children would die this way, with schools routinely making no attempt to find them and failing to report their disappearances for days.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,064 ✭✭✭Christy42


    You know not every kid that was born in 1900 lived to 120? Stop saying they did





    Yeah, I know you didn't say that. But neither did I say what I bolded in your post above. That would work out at 35% of children dying before they hit 21 if we considered age and death to be independent variables. So if we are playing this game then it works both ways. I don't see the point of it.





    I'm still looking for supporters to help attack the British and Protestants for murdering and buggering to death the hundreds of bodies in the mass grave pits in the Union workhouse near me. Can we get that sorted out seeing as it happened first and happened here? Or the one in Kilkenny that I linked to earlier.

    I'm ignoring the fact of course that there was a famine at the time for story about the 500+ kids over 4 years in the Kilkenny one. I'm judging the facts by todays standards. I'm also not taking into account that the rate of children dying before 21 was still around 15% up to 1920's Ireland. The Protestant archbishops must have been still going around and buggering them to death even as the new State was finding its feet! There can be no other reason. Well, if there was, I plan on sticking my fingers in my ears and just saying "nah nah nah nah". because I don't really care about those people. I'm just delighted they died so I can win internet points in my hatred of Protestant archbishops.



    Am I doing it right?

    "Your calculations are wrong. 2 dying for any given school year would be 200 over 100 years."

    Great so what was the complete and utter nonsense about not knowing if 2 dead of your year of 100 being above or below average then? I take it you did not mean 2 per year then?


    Also in this thread was the fact that children in these schools died at a much higher rate than those of the same time (aka not judging it by todays standards). Just because more children died of diseases in the past does not mean that none of them were mistreated and when you find a very large number of them you ask questions.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    I wasn't living in Canada. Merely pointing out to the poster that people do not live forever. Some unfortunately die young.


    I may start quoting Frank McCourt next! I remember his story about his father not having the money to bring his baby sister to the doctor and she died. The amount of people that died from TB and other preventable diseases in this country in the last century was appalling by today's standards. It was normal for them unfortunately. I think that all my grandparents had siblings that died young. Some multiple siblings. I don't imagine that people definitely not considered as equals over in Canada were getting better treatment in their day-to-day lives than the average Irish person

    Infant mortality wasn't equally spread out over childhood though - even when it was very high, it was largely in babyhood. Past toddler age, children didn't die that often, except when there was a famine or an epidemic.

    And these children were just dumped without parents being informed - that alone shows there was something very abnormal going on.

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Tell us what you think the rate might have been? If you want to talk figures then put a number to it.

    Fyi, I could not care less what the rate is. If this turns out similarly to Tuam and these are unmarked graves of undeclared deaths, do you think it's acceptable? Where do you stand on the likes of Tuam?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Gatling wrote: »
    By reports seems TB was the biggest killer at the time due to a lack of medical interventions ,most places likely had no access to anything but the bare basics of medicine ,
    TB , measles,flu and numerous other infections and diseases would have gone through homes like wildfires , there is probably similar number of deaths in isolated communities with lack of medical care at the time ,
    Or Nazi POW camps.. these places had little access to medicine on purpose


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    volchitsa wrote: »
    And these children were just dumped without parents being informed - that alone shows there was something very abnormal going on.

    Apparently efforts were made to inform the parents and rail companies wouldn't repatriate the dead because it's wasn't financially viable ,
    Could they have been given Christian burials possibly but they weren't Christians ,even it it was deaths due to epidemics mass burials wouldn't be uncommon for the times ,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,603 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/truth-and-reconciliation-commission-by-the-numbers-1.3096185

    Share of the schools operated by the Roman Catholic Church: up to 60 per cent.

    Total First Nations, Métis, and Inuit children placed in residential schools: more than 150,000.

    Estimated number of residential schools student deaths: over 6,000, according to TRC chair Justice Murray Sinclair

    Odds of a student dying over the life of the program: 1 in 25

    Odds of dying for Canadians serving in the Second World War: 1 in 26

    During the program's first half-century, tuberculosis and then influenza were the primary killers. The neglect, abuse, lack of food, isolation from family and badly constructed buildings assisted disease in killing residential school "inmates," as Scott termed them. A lawyer who conducted a review in 1907 told the government, "Doing nothing to obviate the preventable causes of death, brings the Department within unpleasant nearness to the charge of manslaughter."

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,064 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Listen, I did not do any calculation. Nor did I extrapolate my own story to the general case. Another poster did. In doing so, they did not do their calculations correctly. So I told them so.



    Go post inane shite at them. Not me. I didn't do the extrapolation. Merely pointed out that 100 x 2 = 200. It is not 100 x 2 = 40.

    So if your story was not meant to be brought out to a general case what was the point of it? I am also guessing then you were aware that 2 dying in a year would be considered above average.

    The issue with extrapolation was you unclear with what your story was saying and its relevance to the thread. 2 died over a year, 2 died over 5 years. The same with grandparents siblings. Yes some people died early. Even in the modern day we still have children dying from diseases we can't treat. It is not relevant.

    These children died at a higher rate than normal for the time in institutions known for mistreating children. This is not rocket science to figure out they were not all pure misfortune and that lives were cut short due to mistreatment.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Or Nazi POW camps.. these places had little access to medicine on purpose

    A little sensational ,the Uyghurs post you made got mention of Nazi death camps ,

    Your taking about the 1890s onwards , there was few and fair between who lived to be old aged at the time


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,603 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    It seems the Roman church has not issued it's template apology yet.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/we-do-not-want-this-to-be-hidden-remains-of-215-children-discovered-on-site-of-former-residential-school-1.5446837
    But there’s more work to be done for Truth and Reconciliation in Canada. One thing that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission has been pushing for has been for an apology from the Pope for the Catholic Church’s role in residential schools.

    “The Catholic Church has yet to do that, and to really accept full responsibility for reparations to families.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,423 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Gatling wrote: »
    Apparently efforts were made to inform the parents and rail companies wouldn't repatriate the dead because it's wasn't financially viable ,
    Could they have been given Christian burials possibly but they weren't Christians ,even it it was deaths due to epidemics mass burials wouldn't be uncommon for the times ,

    Who says they "made efforts"? Sounds like the British government saying the people they killed in Ballymurphy had all pointed guns or been shooting at them. They would say that, wouldn't they?

    As for not being christians, how likely is it that children taken away from indigenous families to be brought up in a religious-run school would have had their tribal religion respected? Did that ever happen anywhere? Weren't they just baptised by force and brought up as christians?

    Reem Alsalem UNSR Violence Against Women and Girls: "Very concerned about statements by the IOC at Paris2024 (M)ultiple international treaties and national constitutions specifically refer to women & their fundamental rights, so the world (understands) what women -and men- are. (H)ow can one assess fairness and justice if we do not know who we are being fair and just to?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,603 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Fyi, I could not care less what the rate is. If this turns out similarly to Tuam and these are unmarked graves of undeclared deaths, do you think it's acceptable? Where do you stand on the likes of Tuam?

    He tried to muddy the waters in the Mother and Baby home thread too and got found out.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I posted a link above. You can download the mortality table in the link



    I also highlighted 15% of children born died before age 21 in 1920's Ireland
    That did not address my point at all. Unmarked graves, undeclared deaths and family members not even being informed of the death is utterly horrific from a supposedly moral institution... Doesn't matter how natural the deaths were.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Gatling wrote: »
    A little sensational ,the Uyghurs post you made got mention of Nazi death camps ,

    Your taking about the 1890s onwards , there was few and fair between who lived to be old aged at the time

    Not sensational at all in this case, the death rate was the same, as posted above


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,812 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Odds of a child that had already survived to age 5 (so not an infant death) in 1920's Ireland subsequently dying before age 21: 1 in 21.9

    Ireland and in particular Dublin had an "abnormally high" child mortality rate for a western country in the first half of the century though. A comparison of like with like showed

    But despite occasional efforts at reform, even as late as the 1940s the death rates within residential schools were up to five times higher than among Canadian children as a whole.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,064 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Jesus Christ. It was not a long post. How could you not understand it? I did not do any extrapolation. Another poster did. They made calculation errors. I pointed out their calculation errors without commenting on why they did such a calculation.


    It is not rocket science, and you moan on about higher rates, but when asked for the figures you don't have them. Another poster doesn't care for the rates. How are you supposed to reason with that?


    "I don't know what the figure is. Or what the general figure is. But I'm gonna make stuff up to suit myself"


    And yes, the British institutions did implement and drive these laws and oppression of what they saw as "filthy natives" and "savages". Because those "savages" didn't have what they considered to be a Christian (i.e. Protestant) work ethic. They did it here and they did it in Canada. God save the Queen as they say over there in Canada

    I must have missed if I was asked for the numbers? I can't control what other posters care about though there are multiple crimes against humanity happened to create this situation.

    Also not sure why I should repost numbers here already but anyway.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/newly-discovered-b-c-graves-a-grim-reminder-of-the-heartbreaking-death-toll-of-residential-schools

    I have not made anything up. You are the one coming in with utter nonsense about your classmates and grandparents. Honestly the confusion is in trying to link your posts to the topic at hand or to figure out what your point is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,064 ✭✭✭Christy42


    I can give you the names of those classmates if you want. You might be able to find their parents online and tell them that their son's deaths were utter nonsense if that is how you get your kicks.


    I will tell you though that the early deaths of any of my grandparents siblings was not a nonsense. Shame on you for saying so. Pretty despicable.

    What relevance to the thread or are you still trying to muddy the waters here? This is about the shameful mistreatment of native children by authorities in Canada.

    Their deaths are not nonsense. Bringing them up in this thread is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    I can give you the names of those classmates if you want. You might be able to find their parents online and tell them that their son's deaths were utter nonsense if that is how you get your kicks.


    I will tell you though that the early deaths of any of my grandparents siblings was not a nonsense. Shame on you for saying so. Pretty despicable.

    More gaslighting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,603 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    More gaslighting.

    Completely. Best not to engage with the irrelevant whataboutery. Sad.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,064 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Obviously a next step will need to be setting up a group to try and find more of these sites around Canada. Who knows how many more there could be near other schools.

    The extent of what went on should be found out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,603 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/03/traumatic-legacy-indian-boarding-schools/584293/
    According to the Act’s text, Christian missionaries and other “persons of good moral character” were charged with introducing Native children to “the habits and arts of civilization”
    This is what achieving civilization looked like in practice: Students were stripped of all things associated with Native life.
    Contact with family and community members was discouraged or forbidden altogether. Survivors have described a culture of pervasive physical and sexual abuse at the schools. Food and medical attention were often scarce; many students died. Their parents sometimes learned of their death only after they had been buried in school cemeteries, some of which were unmarked.
    Although she died in 2011, I can still see her trying to outrun her invisible demons. She would walk across the floor of our house, sometimes for hours, desperately shaking her head from side to side to keep the persistent awful memories from entering. She would flap and wring her hands over and over again, as though to rid them of a clinging presence.
    Hypervigilance, defensiveness, resentment, and a hair-trigger temper had been her only allies against the Sister School messages of racial inferiority, daily reminders that Natives were primitive beings unlikely to rise above the role of servants in a white man’s world. She raged against the nuns’ label “dirty Indian,” haunted by the fear that the nuns were right, even as she scrubbed miles of floors and performed hours of heavy manual labor.

    All of those awful Sister School doings cut her mind. I think she believed that she would break into 1 million pieces if she recalled the traumatic events that held her hostage, forever burned into her amygdala.
    As she described the nun’s inexplicable cruelty—the beatings, the shaming, and the withholding of food

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,603 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Christy42 wrote: »
    Obviously a next step will need to be setting up a group to try and find more of these sites around Canada. Who knows how many more there could be near other schools.

    The extent of what went on should be found out.

    The head of the truth and reconciliation commission (Justice Murray Sinclair) said it's estimated at least 6,000 children died in these institutions and that it’s inexcusable nobody has ever found out the exact number.
    “We have recommendations around that in the report. We’re going to tell you there are lots of records out there that are missing.”

    https://globalnews.ca/news/2027587/deaths-at-canadas-indian-residential-schools-need-more-study-commission/

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,065 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Gatling wrote: »
    Unfortunately it's not considered cool to make noise about unlike cool things like climate change and BLM ,
    How many people even mention Tiananmen Square these days ,
    It's usually ah sure didn't America do this and that

    Huh? Tianmen gets mentioned loads. It’s anniversary always gets marked in the West. What a strange deflection to raise.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    Be interesting to see how a first world nation handles their mass burial of institutionalised children. I don't see as big a cover up and whitewash as Ireland shamefully had, but we'll see.
    Very similar situation.


  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    It's absolutely hilarious that the same select few people will try to downplay anything horrific when indigenous groups or ethnic minorities are involved.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    It's rather disturbing the same select few people who get their kicks from misery porn. Especially when indigenous groups or ethnic minorities are involved. Spending their day looking on the internet to find something to get themselves off on for the day.







    Then they turn around and call it hilarious. Sad

    I started the thread, I didn't go "looking" for it, it popped up in my news alert and I wanted to get people's thoughts. Nice try though :rolleyes:


  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    It's rather disturbing the same select few people who get their kicks from misery porn. Especially when indigenous groups or ethnic minorities are involved. Spending their day looking on the internet to find something to get themselves off on for the day.

    So expressing horror at the fact that over 200 children of indigenous backgrounds were found buried near a residential school is ‘getting kicks from misery porn’?

    Then people like you dismissing it as ‘ara sure’ and then saying ‘it wasn’t Auschwitz’ deserve to be called out on it.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business dude. You can get your kicks however you like. That's your own choice.


    It's strange to me, but how and ever.

    Honestly, so far you're the guy who is treating this topic in a particularly messed up way.


  • Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business dude. You can get your kicks however you like. That's your own choice.


    It's strange to me, but how and ever.

    Ah, now you’re sh*tposting for the sake of it.

    I’ll leave you to it. I’m out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,603 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is your own business dude. You can get your kicks however you like. That's your own choice.


    It's strange to me, but how and ever.

    Where will you look for attention next with your obscure illogical and irrelevant whataboutery?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,603 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    https://twitter.com/deAdderCanada/status/1399378652631031815

    Worth reading a few of the replies to see the anger in Canada over these camps.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Settler colonialism is always genocidal.

    Those poor children. I hope they can get some kind of justice.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭harrylittle


    I was shocked until I read the Catholic Church was involved. Then it’s not so shocking.

    have you any shock reserved for the 10,000 babies murdered by the irish government/ irish health care system since passing the abortion bill ?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,063 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    have you any shock reserved for the 10,000 babies murdered by the irish government/ irish health care system since passing the abortion bill ?

    You can drop that whataboutery right now, any more of this and there will be threadbans


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,478 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk



    Sick, and one of the worst things is that's what's happening in China at the moment to the Uyghurs and there's f'all we can do about

    We could stop trading with them as a mark of protest? Let's face it people will turn a blind eye as long as we have their huge export market and they're selling us cheap crap, money trumps human rights every time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    The head of the truth and reconciliation commission (Justice Murray Sinclair) said it's estimated at least 6,000 children died in these institutions and that it’s inexcusable nobody has ever found out the exact number.



    https://globalnews.ca/news/2027587/deaths-at-canadas-indian-residential-schools-need-more-study-commission/

    Serious question, is there any first world country that didn't have this sort of stuff happening in children's institutions in the upto say the 50's for whatever marginalised group was around?
    Excluding those those that were directly Stalinist or fascist as they had other stuff going on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,603 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Serious question, is there any first world country that didn't have this sort of stuff happening in children's institutions in the upto say the 50's for whatever marginalised group was around?
    Excluding those those that were directly Stalinist or fascist as they had other stuff going on.

    Maybe the Roman church can tell us that? They seem to be involved in both 'tarnishing' the marginalised groups and subsequently dealing with them.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭Shebean


    Maybe the Roman church can tell us that? They seem to be involved in both 'tarnishing' the marginalised groups and subsequently dealing with them.



    It's like the Gestapo still existing today and being treated with respect and given tax payer money because our political parties and institutions have a history of collaboration and assessing it is too uncomfortable.
    The church should be shunned.


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