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Wheelset or powermeter

  • 28-05-2021 11:06am
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    Mulling over one or the other, my partner got a voucher for me to use, and is generously donating the voucher at a reduced rate to me. Not a bike to work thing, the company give rewards when big projects go well, and a very big project went very well.

    So here is my dilemma, I have been thinking and saving up for either a powermeter or a set of wheels, but still way off. I have put off the power meter as I can't get a 4iiii dual sided in my size in stock anywhere (specifically 165mm Ultegra or Dura Ace) and the Garmin SPD-SL are extortionate (and new and not validated), although now they are cheaper with this discounted voucher.

    The other option is I also could do with a set of spare disc wheels, and I am looking at either of these, which are now a lot more affordable: https://eu.huntbikewheels.com/collections/road-cx-disc-brake-wheels/products/hunt-30carbon-aero-disc-road-wheelset-1319g-30deep-27wide-999?variant=31723747803191#techspecs or https://eu.huntbikewheels.com/collections/gravel-wheels/products/gravel-race-disc-wheelset#techspecs

    If you had the choice, which would you go for, the wheels are a good practical option, having had to put the bike away when the wheels took ages to be repaired, also nice to have spares for races etc.

    But the powermeter is also nice, and I had scrapped the idea of the Garmin as they are extortionate but the 4iiii ticked a lot of boxes, full crankset replacement and I need new rings anyway, reasonable price, but just no stock.

    Tell me how to spend my money. In my head, wheels are winning out, and save for the 4iiii and hopefully it comes back into stock somewhere at some point.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭ JimmiesRustled


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Mulling over one or the other, my partner got a voucher for me to use, and is generously donating the voucher at a reduced rate to me. Not a bike to work thing, the company give rewards when big projects go well, and a very big project went very well.

    So here is my dilemma, I have been thinking and saving up for either a powermeter or a set of wheels, but still way off. I have put off the power meter as I can't get a 4iiii dual sided in my size in stock anywhere (specifically 165mm Ultegra or Dura Ace) and the Garmin SPD-SL are extortionate (and new and not validated), although now they are cheaper with this discounted voucher.

    The other option is I also could do with a set of spare disc wheels, and I am looking at either of these, which are now a lot more affordable: https://eu.huntbikewheels.com/collections/road-cx-disc-brake-wheels/products/hunt-30carbon-aero-disc-road-wheelset-1319g-30deep-27wide-999?variant=31723747803191#techspecs or https://eu.huntbikewheels.com/collections/gravel-wheels/products/gravel-race-disc-wheelset#techspecs

    If you had the choice, which would you go for, the wheels are a good practical option, having had to put the bike away when the wheels took ages to be repaired, also nice to have spares for races etc.

    But the powermeter is also nice, and I had scrapped the idea of the Garmin as they are extortionate but the 4iiii ticked a lot of boxes, full crankset replacement and I need new rings anyway, reasonable price, but just no stock.

    Tell me how to spend my money. In my head, wheels are winning out, and save for the 4iiii and hopefully it comes back into stock somewhere at some point.

    What BB do you have? Have a spare power meter on my cross bike (Not cross season so it's hanging up) if you want to borrow it for a few weeks/months to see how you get on before making a decision?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,414 ✭✭✭ fat bloke


    Power meters are cheap no? Or at least have gotten cheaper. But wheels have gotten dearer.

    I've garmin vector 2s's for a long time now - could be more than 5 years, and they're still going strong. -I'm at the stage where I'm kinda expecting them to give up the ghost and I do muse upon what I might replace them with. The answer to my musing is usually the Assioma Ferrero Rochet whatchamacallums. Just based on price and reviews.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    What BB do you have? Have a spare power meter on my cross bike (Not cross season so it's hanging up) if you want to borrow it for a few weeks/months to see how you get on before making a decision?
    Shimano Hollowtech, so 30mm, if it works I might take you up on it for a trial. I like numbers but as someone who has never taken his trainign seriously, I would like to see if the want of a powermeter is actually a want or more like a child at christmas who won't use their new toy after a week or two.
    fat bloke wrote: »
    Power meters are cheap no? Or at least have gotten cheaper. But wheels have gotten dearer.

    I've garmin vector 2s's for a long time now - could be more than 5 years, and they're still going strong. -I'm at the stage where I'm kinda expecting them to give up the ghost and I do muse upon what I might replace them with. The answer to my musing is usually the Assioma Ferrero Rochet whatchamacallums. Just based on price and reviews.
    I am a weirdo but one of the deciding factors for going for a crankset version is that I really like SPD-SL, and I have used Look and speedplay. I am weird.


  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭ JimmiesRustled


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Shimano Hollowtech, so 30mm, if it works I might take you up on it for a trial. I like numbers but as someone who has never taken his trainign seriously, I would like to see if the want of a powermeter is actually a want or more like a child at christmas who won't use their new toy after a week or two.

    I am a weirdo but one of the deciding factors for going for a crankset version is that I really like SPD-SL, and I have used Look and speedplay. I am weird.

    I was pretty sure Shimano cranks were 24mm? The crank based PM I have is BB386 so 30mm spindle so might need to change out your bottom bracket if you do have 24mm. Could drop it off at the first Club league race if you want it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,414 ✭✭✭ fat bloke


    That's fair enough. You like what you like. I was a firm fan of SPD-SL's too but then I got the PM as a pressie and had to switch to Look. If I were to claim that I noticed even the tiniest of infinitesimal differences between the two, I would be lying :).

    I presume you know that the new Garmin Rally is available for SPD SL and are still discounting on price. But if it is as it appears to be - basically a properly and finally (!) totally sorted Vector 3 system, then it should be really good.

    Also, as a powermeter user for a long time now - I would not pay the premium for dual sided. Single is perfect. All you need is a number and for that number to have some element of consistency.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭ LCD


    100% Wheelset.

    Looks better and the more you like your bike the more you`ll ride it

    Powermeter leads to intervals, which leads to training, which leads to boredom, which leads to not riding your bike.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    I was pretty sure Shimano cranks were 24mm? The crank based PM I have is BB386 so 30mm spindle so might need to change out your bottom bracket if you do have 24mm. Could drop it off at the first Club league race if you want it.

    You are 100% right


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,698 ✭✭✭ CantGetNoSleep


    I have both a power meter and a set of Hunt wheels (I think they are the Aero Light Disc - alu). The wheels really transformed the bike I put them on (saved more than a kilo) whereas as I don't race, I barely notice if I amon the bike with the power meter or not.

    Although you could go for my wheelset (think it was 399) and a single sided power meter


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,414 ✭✭✭ fat bloke


    To summarise then.

    A wheelset will make you think you're faster.

    A powermeter will shatter that illusion. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,216 ✭✭✭ Daroxtar


    You can post your current crankset to 4iiii and they'll fit the PM to it. That's what I've done, should be back to me the end of next week.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    Daroxtar wrote: »
    You can post your current crankset to 4iiii and they'll fit the PM to it. That's what I've done, should be back to me the end of next week.

    Voucher isn't accepted by 4iiii but I am slowly leaning more to the wheelset.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,369 ✭✭✭ G1032


    fat bloke wrote: »
    That's fair enough. You like what you like. I was a firm fan of SPD-SL's too but then I got the PM as a pressie and had to switch to Look. If I were to claim that I noticed even the tiniest of infinitesimal differences between the two, I would be lying :).

    I presume you know that the new Garmin Rally is available for SPD SL and are still discounting on price. But if it is as it appears to be - basically a properly and finally (!) totally sorted Vector 3 system, then it should be really good.

    Also, as a powermeter user for a long time now - I would not pay the premium for dual sided. Single is perfect. All you need is a number and for that number to have some element of consistency.

    Same here. Always used SPD-SL but bought the Assioma Duo PM and had to switch to Look. I notice absolutely no difference whatsoever between the Shimano and Look cleats. I had put off buying the Assioma for a long while after reading so much about the cleat change being an obstacle. I honestly don't get what people are on about🙈

    Disagree re the dual sided though. I have a L/R imbalance at endurance watts that's as much as 3 to 4%. But at SS and threshold and above I'm pretty much 50/50 balanced. So if you don't have the imbalance consistently the same across your zones it's going to be problematic I'd imagine


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,414 ✭✭✭ fat bloke


    G1032 wrote: »
    Disagree re the dual sided though. I have a L/R imbalance at endurance watts that's as much as 3 to 4%. But at SS and threshold and above I'm pretty much 50/50 balanced. So if you don't have the imbalance consistently the same across your zones it's going to be problematic I'd imagine

    My issue with the dual sided thing is that it's an interesting measurement.... once.
    The first time I checked it it was 49:51 and that's pretty much what it has always been. - What am I going to do about it? It's like measuring the length of my legs. What the hell can I do about it if I find out one is 1mm shorter than the other? It's interesting to measure once but where's the value re-measuring everytime I go out on my bike. So, for me, I paid a significant premium for a metric that is of no benefit to me.

    Good to hear another vote for the Assiomas though.

    Now if only my Garmins would stop working.... :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭ JimmiesRustled


    fat bloke wrote: »
    My issue with the dual sided thing is that it's an interesting measurement.... once.
    The first time I checked it it was 49:51 and that's pretty much what it has always been. - What am I going to do about it? It's like measuring the length of my legs. What the hell can I do about it if I find out one is 1mm shorter than the other? It's interesting to measure once but where's the value re-measuring everytime I go out on my bike. So, for me, I paid a significant premium for a metric that is of no benefit to me.

    Good to hear another vote for the Assiomas though.

    Now if only my Garmins would stop working.... :D

    I'd disagree re dual sided. I've been unfortunate enough to need a couple of surgeries on one of my knees. That leg actively puts out less power and the curve isn't linear.

    As an example of this, at 200W I might have a 48/52 split but at 300 it might be 45/55 and at 450W it might be 40/60. (It's not as bad as this for me as stated above)

    With my "weaker" leg being my right leg, a single sided power meter will overstate my power by quite a margin by just doubling what my left leg does.

    Granted I'm probably an outlier and if you're in or around a 50/50 split across all zones then I can see how it wouldn't be required for you but I wouldn't dismiss it either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭ strmin


    New wheelset might increase level of enjoyment on a bike. Powermeter will certainly kill it. Powermeters are for pros or pro wanabes in my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,369 ✭✭✭ G1032


    strmin wrote: »
    New wheelset might increase level of enjoyment on a bike. Powermeter will certainly kill it. Powermeters are for pros or pro wanabes in my opinion.

    LOL


  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭ JimmiesRustled


    strmin wrote: »
    New wheelset might increase level of enjoyment on a bike. Powermeter will certainly kill it. Powermeters are for pros or pro wanabes in my opinion.

    I reckon that's a bit unfair really. If you don't have a huge amount of time, then power is the best way to train/get better. No guessing and no hiding.


  • Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭ Mr. Cats


    My vote would probably be for new wheelset as will increase enjoyment on bike.The main use I’ve found for power meter is for pacing longer efforts - say a 20 min climb. The level of additional enjoyment though from the wheelset upgrade will depend on how basic the current wheels are in my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,414 ✭✭✭ fat bloke


    strmin wrote: »
    New wheelset might increase level of enjoyment on a bike. Powermeter will certainly kill it. Powermeters are for pros or pro wanabes in my opinion.

    Now that I definitely disagree with.

    I'm neither pro nor wannabe, but by far and away the best thing I ever did was buy and use a power meter. It cut through swathes of nonsense and notions, put structure on my training, benchmarked my output, massively increased interest and usage of turbo and rollers over the winters, is brilliant for structured interval training or even spontanteous out-on-a-spin intervals for keeping you focused on a long climb for example.

    A wheelset is lovely like a new car smell is lovely, but nothing has had a more positive and long-term consistent effect on my cycling than a pm.

    But, that's only my experience of it obviously.


  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭ MangleBadger


    I recently had this same conundrum. I went with wheelset as I only had stock cube RA wheels and I felt a set of carbon rims would be a much better upgrade, and i'm new enough that I can probably still improve enough without looking too hard at power numbers.

    But for you, you say the wheelset will be a spare wheelset, so surely you would get much more use out of the PM


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  • Registered Users Posts: 307 ✭✭ strmin


    fat bloke wrote: »
    Now that I definitely disagree with.

    I'm neither pro nor wannabe, but by far and away the best thing I ever did was buy and use a power meter. It cut through swathes of nonsense and notions, put structure on my training, benchmarked my output, massively increased interest and usage of turbo and rollers over the winters, is brilliant for structured interval training or even spontanteous out-on-a-spin intervals for keeping you focused on a long climb for example.

    A wheelset is lovely like a new car smell is lovely, but nothing has had a more positive and long-term consistent effect on my cycling than a pm.

    But, that's only my experience of it obviously.

    I totally understand your point. Powermeters have their place. You might not be pro wannabe, but you WANT to hit some target. You train, you do intervals. From your own words riding without a powermeter is just nonsense. Powermeter makes sense to you.
    But majority of people just enjoy riding their bikes and they don't think about intervals when they out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 102 ✭✭ pairofpears


    Have a Look at Power2max who have a dual sided PM starting at €540 incl cranks. I was told by a world pro that he only uses 4iii as they are a sponsor but he wouldnt touch them if he had a choice.
    New handbuilt wheels are an option and Robin Seymour or Apex Cycles in Kildare town are good people to speak to about handbuilt wheels. I got a set from Apex with DT Swiss components and am very happy with how they ride and how they have improved my ride.


  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ themighty


    Might be worth taking a look at these as well. GPLama's review of the PM was very good. I'm planning on getting one (I've a Cannondale crank which makes everything awkward), just waiting for a voucher to arrive. I was going to hold out for the Favero SPD-SLs but I've run out of patience. I'm not swapping pedals systems, I've Shimano on everything now so locked in.

    https://retail.cigalacycling.com/collections/powermeters/products/inpeak-shimano-custom


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    themighty wrote: »
    I was going to hold out for the Favero SPD-SLs but I've run out of patience. I'm not swapping pedals systems, I've Shimano on everything now so locked in.

    These are what I was holding out for, but not even a hint from them that it even exists bar that one non validated article from cycling tips.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,414 ✭✭✭ fat bloke


    strmin wrote: »
    . From your own words riding without a powermeter is just nonsense.

    Ah jeez no I certainly don't think that. I meant nonsense in regard to training intensity and stuff.

    For example, I changed to another bike there last year and just didn't bother putting the power pedals on. I was happy out riding around, happy as Larry. The for the winter I went back on the rollers and just used a speed sensor, thinking I was a great fella, pedalling hard, training like a hoor.

    A couple of weeks ago I put the pm back into action and repeated my winter training to see what I was actually doing to the speed sensor - sure I was only codding myself. No consistency at all within sessions and generally lower intensities both within and between sessions. In that way the pm cuts through self delusion or general training bullsh1te.

    Anyway they're not for everyone maybe but, particularly for winter indoor trainer motivation, I found it spectacularly good for me. Turning it off for the summer and just riding your bike - absolutely, I can completely understand that too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,322 ✭✭✭ Macy0161


    You want to split the power meter though iirc, hence the 4iiii dual sided? So it's a wheelset or power on two bikes? Otherwise, you could get something like a powerbox?

    I would say are you going to train with the Power or just to have the data afterwards?


  • Registered Users Posts: 584 ✭✭✭ Reality_Check1


    I recently got both.

    New wheel set all day every day. Power meter doesn't provide that much extra especially if you already have a smart trainer


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,953 ✭✭✭ 07Lapierre


    Buy Both. (That’s what you really wants us to tell you right? :) )


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    You want to split the power meter though iirc, hence the 4iiii dual sided? So it's a wheelset or power on two bikes? Otherwise, you could get something like a powerbox?
    It was more out of interest, as in could I throw one crank on my CX bike with ease but I'm not that pushed.
    I would say are you going to train with the Power or just to have the data afterwards?
    I genuinely don't know, probably the latter. Stravas estimated power is miles off, mainly for interest in races, TTs and just I like numbers.
    I recently got both.

    New wheel set all day every day. Power meter doesn't provide that much extra especially if you already have a smart trainer
    Don't have a smart trainer, just crushed my soul sitting inside, it was nice for awhile but sold it on eventually.
    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Buy Both. (That’s what you really wants us to tell you right? :) )
    Probably will in the end.

    New wheelset it is for now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,222 ✭✭✭✭ Raam


    Get a powerset.... no.... a wheelmeter




    Have I helped?


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