Water softner and filter

bluestrattos

Hello,

I'm looking for a water softner and filter all-in-one.

I don't know if I'm looking correctly, but it seems I need two devices: A water softner and then a water filtering systems that it will feed from the water softner.

I live in a very hard water area, really terrible. so I need to get something, better than a filter jug.

My question is, am I missing something or do I need two different systems: a water softner connected to a filter system ?

This would be for the kitchen sink only.

thanks

Dtp1979

bluestrattos wrote: »

Hello,

I'm looking for a water softner and filter all-in-one.

I don't know if I'm looking correctly, but it seems I need two devices: A water softner and then a water filtering systems that it will feed from the water softner.

I live in a very hard water area, really terrible. so I need to get something, better than a filter jug.

My question is, am I missing something or do I need two different systems: a water softner connected to a filter system ?

This would be for the kitchen sink only.

thanks

For drinking purposes? Or filling a kettle or both?

bluestrattos

Dtp1979 wrote: »

For drinking purposes? Or filling a kettle or both?

Both.

sky6

Have you had the Water tested.?

A water Softener will do just that soften the water by removing or reducing limescale.

Is the Water coming from a Well. If it is a Well you could have other problems also like Iron and Manganese.

Filters don't really stop limescale as it's mostly soluble in the water. But they can catch some of the bigger pieces of limescale.

Dtp1979

A water Softner is a filter. If you have limescale then you need to soften the water at source as you’ll need limescale free water throughout the house to protect literally everything the water comes in contact with. Softened water is perfectly ok to drink too but if you want to remove absolutely everything from the water the you’ll need a reverse osmosis water filter.

bluestrattos

sky6 wrote: »

Have you had the Water tested.?

A water Softener will do just that soften the water by removing or reducing limescale.

Is the Water coming from a Well. If it is a Well you could have other problems also like Iron and Manganese.

Filters don't really stop limescale as it's mostly soluble in the water. But they can catch some of the bigger pieces of limescale.

According with Irsh Water website, my address has the following:
Current mg/l of CaC03 in your water: 396.8, Very Hard
Average mg/l of CaC03 for your Water Supply Zone> 407.288888888889, Very Hard

I also bought some kits to test and it's very hard.

I don't have a well, this is straight from the public mains.

I've a filter in the shower head and outside the power shower, and before I did this, the shower head would get lime scale in two days, and after the shower, taking out the lead, you could see little pieces like you just arrived from the beach.

Dtp1979 wrote: »

A water Softner is a filter. If you have limescale then you need to soften the water at source as you’ll need limescale free water throughout the house to protect literally everything the water comes in contact with. Softened water is perfectly ok to drink too but if you want to remove absolutely everything from the water the you’ll need a reverse osmosis water filter.

I wouldn't be interested in softening the water in the whole house, I'm happy with the filters in the power shower, and something for the kitchen.
We use a britta jar filter, and the kettle gets limescale quite easily after 3 or 4 uses in a day. After 2 weeks, the britta filter is no longer working because the use of the kettle drops to 1 or 2 uses, before you need to have to descale it again.

Would the reverse osmosis water filter also handle the hard water, or would I need to softner the water before going through the osmosis filter ?

Dtp1979

Out of intrest, why not soften the entire house?

Yes reverse osmosis will remove everything. You’ll be left with perfect drinking water.

Regarding mains water, I’m on mains too. I installed a 1ppm micron filter out of intrest on the incoming mains, before any other water treatment. Within 2 months the perfectly white filter turns dark brown, full of god knows what. That just shows you what you’re drinking and showering in, without realising it.

Nigzcurran

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Out of intrest, why not soften the entire house?

Yes reverse osmosis will remove everything. You’ll be left with perfect drinking water.

Regarding mains water, I’m on mains too. I installed a 1ppm micron filter out of intrest on the incoming mains, before any other water treatment. Within 2 months the perfectly white filter turns dark brown, full of god knows what. That just shows you what you’re drinking and showering in, without realising it.

Hi is this expensive to get installed?

ineedeuro

Sorry not trying to jump on thread
Interested in this myself but want to do the entire house. Shower heads blocking up and recently you take a glass of water, it is all cloudy and then give it 30 seconds and its clear
Can't be good for you

Checked this out before and the information is limited, no real this is good/bad. Warning about systems and using loads of salt etc so was bamboozled with rubbish stats and left it. Thinking about it again recently due to the poor quality of water.

Loads of people doing a water tap, my brother got in on the "you won a prize BS" which they all seem to use. I think he pays 150 a year maintenace for a tap which seems crazy to me but he loves it and I dont want to be negative especially when I dont have the facts to back it up

Dtp1979

ineedeuro wrote: »

Loads of people doing a water tap, my brother got in on the "you won a prize BS" which they all seem to use. I think he pays 150 a year maintenace for a tap which seems crazy to me but he loves it and I dont want to be negative especially when I dont have the facts to back it up

Haha great scam. God love his naive heart. That’s basically a money racket to keep the€€€ coming in for some company. Water softners don’t really need to be serviced. Crowds that install them will tell you otherwise those. Great money spinner. A monkey would change the filters on an RO machine themselves. If you have limescale and also want perfect drinking water then the only option is a salt Softner and reverse osmosis drinking tap.
You’d prob get the lot installed for 1200ish. Salt for the year would prob cost less than 100 and change filters in the RO every 2-3 years depending on the quality of the water.

shane b

Dtp1979 wrote:

If you have limescale and also want perfect drinking water then the only option is a salt Softner and reverse osmosis drinking tap. You’d prob get the lot installed for 1200ish. Salt for the year would prob cost less than 100 and change filters in the RO every 2-3 years depending on the quality of the water.

Good advice there. I'm based in Meath and have a water softener. Get it serviced every 2-3 years. Looked into an RO unit but couldn't justify the cost.

Sleeper12

bluestrattos wrote:

I've a filter in the shower head and outside the power shower, and before I did this, the shower head would get lime scale in two days, and after the shower, taking out the lead, you could see little pieces like you just arrived from the beach.

The shower head filter only protects the shower head. It offers no protection to the shower itself.

A proper water softening system will pay for itself within a few years as it will prolong the the life of the shower, washing machine, dishwasher, immersion, kettle, iorn etc

Sleeper12

shane b wrote:

Good advice there. I'm based in Meath and have a water softener. Get it serviced every 2-3 years. Looked into an RO unit but couldn't justify the cost.

Out of interest can you remember how much your water softening system cost originally? I have a lot of clients in Balbriggan that are getting shower elements replaced every 18 months or so. They'd have a perfectly functional shower for the first six months or so & then performance starts to suffer

Dtp1979

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Out of interest can you remember how much your water softening system cost originally? I have a lot of clients in Balbriggan that are getting shower elements replaced every 18 months or so. They'd have a perfectly functional shower for the first six months or so & then performance starts to suffer

Standard salt Softner installed anywhere from 600-800

Sleeper12

Dtp1979 wrote:

Standard salt Softner installed anywhere from 600-800

Really bad areas would save this in 4 or 5 years (or less) I would think. Some pay me 165 every 18 months for shower exement.

Dtp1979

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Really bad areas would save this in 4 or 5 years (or less) I would think. Some pay me 165 every 18 months for shower exement.

They’re worth their weight in gold. Even showering in water is so much nicer. I have my entire system working off of reverse osmosis water. Showering is like being cried on by angels

Sleeper12

Dtp1979 wrote:

They’re worth their weight in gold. Even showering in water is so much nicer. I have my entire system working off of reverse osmosis water. Showering is like being cried on by angels

I suppose it would be like rain water. You wouldn't need fabric softener or hair conditioner. Your skin even wouldn't be as dry?

Dtp1979

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I suppose it would be like rain water. You wouldn't need fabric softener or hair conditioner. Your skin even wouldn't be as dry?

It’s softer than rain water. Correct on the rest

ineedeuro

Are we allowed to name companies here? I know a main one seems to be based in Ashbourne I was going to get the main system which is 799.

I want to cover the entire house. So I guess this is the system you need.
If you install this do you need the drinking water tap?
MOD NOTE. IT'S BEST NOT TO NAME THEM AS YOU HAVE PROVIDED ENOUGH INFO TO ALLOW SOMEONE TO FIND THEM.

Dtp1979

ineedeuro wrote: »

Are we allowed to name companies here? I know a main one seems to be based in Ashbourne I was going to get the main system which is 799.

I want to cover the entire house. So I guess this is the system you need.
If you install this do you need the drinking water tap?
MOD NOTE. IT'S BEST NOT TO NAME THEM AS YOU HAVE PROVIDED ENOUGH INFO TO ALLOW SOMEONE TO FIND THEM.

Yes and they’ll insist on servicing it every year. A totally unnecessary Job.

ineedeuro

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Yes and they’ll insist on servicing it every year. A totally unnecessary Job.

In regards to the service I would probably get them to do, what would you think for average house? every 2 or 3 years?

Of course I will have a look and see if I can do myself but just trying to work out numbers.

Calahonda52

bluestrattos wrote: »

According with Irsh Water website, my address has the following:
Current mg/l of CaC03 in your water: 396.8, Very Hard
Average mg/l of CaC03 for your Water Supply Zone> 407.288888888889, Very Hard

Where did you get these number from?
Have looked but don't see it listed?
Thanks

Dtp1979

ineedeuro wrote: »

In regards to the service I would probably get them to do, what would you think for average house? every 2 or 3 years?

Of course I will have a look and see if I can do myself but just trying to work out numbers.

Get a water hardness test kit. Test every six months. When your water stops being soft get a service. It’ll prob be 10 years or so.

bluestrattos

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Where did you get these number from?
Have looked but don't see it listed?
Thanks

https://www.water.ie/water-supply/water-quality/water-hardness/

Just put your address there.

ineedeuro

My numbers:
Reading Result
Current mg/l of CaC03 in your water 219, Hard
Average mg/l of CaC03 for your Water Supply Zone 219, Hard

1874

These suppliers are just selling equipment, are there any good brand names?
I was sure I heard of these going for the 300-350 mark in the ideal homes before.
Can these be connected directly into (ie inserted into) the mains supply so they then supply the entire house house supply ie tank and any tap fed with mains water directly from the units? (edit) I say that as I have seen some units where they appear to have a small speedfit type connection in and out and a small tap thats added to the sink, I cant say I'd rely on such a connection under mains pressure, and in my experience they are going to fail eventually, not to mention the tiny outlet, I don't think it would allow enough flow to feed demand for a domestic set up (in the example I saw).


As for servicing, Id have thought replacing the RO and sediment filters is all thats required, and that is simple, water softener? replacing some kind of granular or block of salt.


I did think if water is softened it was less easy to wash in (that it doesnt lather soap or the like easily), that it might taste less pleasant and that it may actually remove essential minerals?

Any brand names?

Dtp1979

1874 wrote: »

These suppliers are just selling equipment, are there any good brand names?
I was sure I heard of these going for the 300-350 mark in the ideal homes before.
Can these be connected directly into (ie inserted into) the mains supply so they then supply the entire house house supply ie tank and any tap fed with mains water directly from the units? (edit) I say that as I have seen some units where they appear to have a small speedfit type connection in and out and a small tap thats added to the sink, I cant say I'd rely on such a connection under mains pressure, and in my experience they are going to fail eventually, not to mention the tiny outlet, I don't think it would allow enough flow to feed demand for a domestic set up (in the example I saw).


As for servicing, Id have thought replacing the RO and sediment filters is all thats required, and that is simple, water softener? replacing some kind of granular or block of salt.


I did think if water is softened it was less easy to wash in (that it doesnt lather soap or the like easily), that it might taste less pleasant and that it may actually remove essential minerals?

Any brand names?

Get a Softner with a clack unit on it. Yes they are priced around 350-400.
You don’t need a drinking water tap unless you’re adding extra filters (reverse osmosis). Softened water on its own is ok to drink. There is no taste of salt or whatever other urban myth is going out there. There is slightly elevated sodium levels in the water so people with heart conditions or sodium sensitivity should probably get it checked out.
Changing RO filters is easy if you follow the instructions.
There is no servicing in softners. Just check hardness levels every six months.

ineedeuro

Ok call from another company. 20ltr external unit. Clack.
Nearly double the price of the other supplier.
Reason: says the other supplier equipment is chinese and will be dead in a few years, Clack has 15 year warranty.
Any truth in it?

Also can you drink the soften water? I heard this before but he said again you cant and need the tap as well? Thanks

Dtp1979

ineedeuro wrote: »

Ok call from another company. 20ltr external unit. Clack.
Nearly double the price of the other supplier.
Reason: says the other supplier equipment is chinese and will be dead in a few years, Clack has 15 year warranty.
Any truth in it?

Also can you drink the soften water? I heard this before but he said again you cant and need the tap as well? Thanks

You can drink softened water. It has slightly elevated sodium levels.

Calahonda52

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You can drink softened water. It has slightly elevated sodium levels.

Yes but it can taste sh$t

ineedeuro

Is it true about the chinese system been dodgy?

Calahonda52

ineedeuro wrote: »

Is it true about the chinese system been dodgy?

From Mao Zedong on, yes, just look around you, C19 just their latest attempt at world domination

ineedeuro

Calahonda52 wrote: »

From Mao Zedong on, yes, just look around you, C19 just their latest attempt at world domination

After the HSE I was only on the look out for our Russian friends

1874

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Get a Softner with a clack unit on it. Yes they are priced around 350-400.
You don’t need a drinking water tap unless you’re adding extra filters (reverse osmosis). Softened water on its own is ok to drink. There is no taste of salt or whatever other urban myth is going out there. There is slightly elevated sodium levels in the water so people with heart conditions or sodium sensitivity should probably get it checked out.
Changing RO filters is easy if you follow the instructions.
There is no servicing in softners. Just check hardness levels every six months.

I've changed plenty of filters in my time, and ones like these, a doddle.
Just not familiar with what capability these systems have?
Appear to have a few small push/pull connections, they dont look like they would provide sufficent flow to fill on the outlet side anything other than the additional tap that appears comes with them for filling a glass or pan at the kitchen sink.

Only supplying a small tap, doesnt provide any protection for the rest of the house? maybe I just cant see all the fittings in the images I found.

Can you get something that you can hook into the mains supply inside the house and feed the entire house off? to fill tanks etc that would seem logical to me if hard water is the issue or any other problems associated with water.
Anyone have an idea at what hardness level it is advisable to consider fitting something that softens water?
Just googling the clack, but dont traditional water softeners have a lot of waste water as a by product?

Dtp1979

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Yes but it can taste sh$t

I don’t see why tbh

3DataModem

Get a clack softener with a nice big tank, fits under the sink if you have space. Lovely soft water throughout house for about 6 quid a month in salt pellets. You'll never look back.

Calahonda52

3DataModem wrote: »

Get a clack softener with a nice big tank, fits under the sink if you have space. Lovely soft water throughout house for about 6 quid a month in salt pellets. You'll never look back.

What is the environmental cost of the water wasted in the back flushing, given that processing waste water is 6 times the cost of producing potable water.
How many 100 litres is each back flush?

1874

Calahonda52 wrote: »

What is the environmental cost of the water wasted in the back flushing, given that processing waste water is 6 times the cost of producing potable water.
How many 100 litres is each back flush?

Not sure, but I did find something since replying in this thread, the back flush water is sodium laden, I'd wonder if it could be beneficial or used for something in a domestic setup?
With sediment filtration, reverse osmosis and maybe UV?? you'd think you could take the water off your gutters and use it.


I thought the clack process suggested was the other different system I cam across, which is a device which uses minute quantities of zinc to soften the water, but doesn't have the waste produced from softening hard water.
I think now what I found is a different thing altogether, I'll look it up, but Im sure it said it doesnt have the same waste or much in softening hard water.


Really I'd like to think the water is only softened to a point as I understood hard water is just bad on the domestic plumbing but is actually good for consumption (human plumbing).

3DataModem

Calahonda52 wrote: »

What is the environmental cost of the water wasted in the back flushing, given that processing waste water is 6 times the cost of producing potable water.
How many 100 litres is each back flush?

Mine regenerates about 100 times a year or so, probably pushes our water usage up by about 10,000 litres (about 10%) and our processing waste water cost up by about 60%.

Well worth it, for the reduction in appliance and clothing wear and tear.

Would be happy to pay for this service as part of a water tax surcharge, but some people think other citizens should cover this cost for me.

ineedeuro

Is "Clack" the best brand?

1874

3DataModem wrote: »

Mine regenerates about 100 times a year or so, probably pushes our water usage up by about 10,000 litres (about 10%) and our processing waste water cost up by about 60%.

Well worth it, for the reduction in appliance and clothing wear and tear.

Would be happy to pay for this service as part of a water tax surcharge, but some people think other citizens should cover this cost for me.

Seems to be a bit of a waste of water,
Not sure how effective this item is, but I'm sure I've seen similar maybe even in B&Q, I found the link to this company in a link to an Independant Newspaper article, not promoting the company, but I was looking at a few last night after reading this thread. I also found a leaflet for a different installer that was put through the letterbox, prices at min double whats quoted for just buying yourself off other places I found by google search online, and even that price was reduced by at least half of their stated normal price, seems a bit outrageous based on what you can buy for that money yourself.
Anyway, this zinc exchange method seems better than having to replace salt and the waste produced from the process and regeneration which seems like a lot of wasted water. No idea how much it costs though, cant be that much for a one off fitting.

https://renewellwater.com/aquabion/


Im still not clear at what point water hardness becomes a problem, will look it up, hardness seems to be measured by Irishwater in mg/L but they only highlight Calcium Carbonate, maybe thats the main one in the locality they measure, other areas might measure different carbonates.

Actually that company does a different device called a NANODE for a fairly hefty €695, I think thats what I saw initially, might be worth it if the amount of waste water is taken into account and any problems associated with normal softening methods, still fairly steep but the one off outlay might pay off?

Dtp1979

ineedeuro wrote: »

Is "Clack" the best brand?

Yes

1874

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Yes

Why are clack the best as you say? is there some particular technology? they still use salt? or something else?

Dtp1979

1874 wrote: »

Why are clack the best as you say? is there some particular technology? they still use salt? or something else?

They’re better built

1874

Dtp1979 wrote: »

They’re better built

Thats not a lot to go on, do they have some specific certification? how can someone compare from one item to another?
Anything technical?
How much back flush compared to another make?

Do they have a longer life, better at softening, something particular?


Clack only seems to be a water softener, I've found they seem to have a volumetric function rather than a time based one



Im definitely considering a system, but want something that wastes minimum of water, and carries out all the rest of the functions, filtration and maybe remineralisation for some taps

OO7FITZY

looking for help to diagnose this problem I have been having for a while with our water softner

the brine tank containing the salt seems to accumulate a brown film or some kind of sludge on the wall of the tank

I have hit the regen button and emptied the tank and washed it down a few times but the issue reappears a few weeks later

Water softer sludge 2.jpg

Water softer sludge 1.jpg

see attached pics

any idea what the cause is and potential fix and recommend someone who can service?