Remote working - the future?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840022#Comment_117840022

I've been working from home for the past 18 months. I've not had any of the issues being theorized here. If anything, the opposite occurred.

I think some people on this thread work in really lousy workplaces, and they are projecting that onto this thread.

All this talk of a home phone etc, who has one in 2021? Anyway...I'd agree with the previous poster Denartha, seems to be a lot of really lousy employers out there! Whether anyone here likes it or not, hybrid/remote is not the future. It's here and it's staying so adapt, make it work for you and if your employer isn't playing ball, then do something about it.

PS: Strumms, what planet are you on? Like, seriously?

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117844876#Comment_117844876

There are plenty of poor employers in the country.

There are also vastly different types if workplaces and jobs: some workers can be very independent and work on assigned tasks at hours which suit them. While others need to do serious amounts of collaboration, serve customers who need them to be available at fixed times, and have managers who got their personal phone numbers during the hiring process and are happy to use them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840367#Comment_117840367

Google "Code of Practice on the Right to Disconnect" which came into force on 1st April 2021.

That should answer all your questions.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117848226#Comment_117848226

I do loads of collaboration in my job. I'd say about 60-70% is collaborative. It has never been easier to collaborate remotely, whether that person is 6 feet away or 6000 miles away. All my bosses in the past have had my mobile number. I've been called out of hours once in the past 10 years - and that was to tell me I was getting on a flight the next day.

Yes, there are bad bosses out there, and bad employers, So move to a good employer.

Had an interview for a job today. I asked about the work from home policy. The interviewer replied, "Well we've been WFH since last March, and will continue to do so until after Christmas anyway, after that, we might adopt a one day a week or fortnight in the office, but, personally, I think if you want to stay working from home you can. I've got a programmer in Bulgaria I've never met in the flesh, but he keeps turning out great code so I've no reason to complain".

He went on "Yesterday afternoon, it was glorious, so I rang up my boss and said, it's gorgeous out there, winter will soon fall upon us, Can I take the afternoon off and go enjoy the sunshine. He replied, Yep! Just bring your phone."

Young_gunner

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/kpmg-s-seamus-hand-we-ll-probably-be-phasing-towards-a-permanent-hybrid-model-1.4669566

good to see some in industry catching up!

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117859573#Comment_117859573

I had to have a conversation with some HR bot about our return to office and asked for the concrete benefits of being in an office, I was told knowledge transfer, team building and easier to get things done in by approaching people in person (I pointed out that HR have a policy that ad hoc desk meetings and desk ambushes are not encouraged lol)

The other thing is that over the pandemic our depts resources are now expanded out to contractors in the US, India and europe so I asked if they were being shipped into the office every week. Apparently our dept are the exception but they still want us in the office lol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117883607#Comment_117883607

Most professional services firms in Ireland, including KPMG, were doing this already, but without the formality and consistency across teams that will now be introduced. What had become accepted informal practice over many years will now be written into policy. It's the public sector, or smaller domestic forms with poor management and HR structures that will be left behind

Snotty

I started a new job recently and the online induction and KT I got is being used as an example of why WFH (in our teams case) is better than being in office. The ability for other team members to share their screen while on a call was how the majority of the KT went, had we been in the office it would have been more difficult, cannot stand over someone's shoulder and being on a teams call with multiple people in the same room is much more distracting (hear them in the office and through the phone at the same time).

givyjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117885582#Comment_117885582

This, exactly this. In the one week we were dragged back in last summer, this is essentially what happened. Calls were still taking place over teams as the most of the folks were not in the office due to department being split into WFH/office at any given time. Nonsensical. We were told today that 'everyone' is going back next week, albeit for 2/5 days. For my particular job this makes absolutely no sense as I'll be scrambling to try find a quiet space (instead of an open plan floor) to deliver online training.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117889956#Comment_117889956

I was struggling with stuff like that long before the pandemic. The open plan office was the worst idea in the history of bad ideas, and anytime I hear the various arguments against fulltime WFH, whereby many homes are not suitable, I think of the various open plan offices I've worked in and think "And that was a suitable working environment?". Noisy, hard to focus, soulless environments.

givyjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890055#Comment_117890055

I would even settle for the hellscape that is portrayed in the movie office space (cubicles), over our over open plan lay out. It is impossible to concentrate with the commotion going on at the best of times.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890774#Comment_117890774

The Matrix trailer came out last week, which prompted me to watch the original. Neo was in a nice, chest high cubicle, as were all his colleagues. Open plan office but with cubicles. I've worked in one like that. The cubicle partitions were covered in felt which absorbed sound. Meaning the office was quieter.

Someone, somewhere decided to get rid of them, and it became a fashion. Easy knowing the people who make such decisions, don't have to work in that environment.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890810#Comment_117890810

The reason behind why they were removed was largely driven by tech startup. Its was far, far cheaper to buy a big table and a load of chairs to sit 10-16 people around it, than to provide cubicles for each person.

It became "cool" to not have cubicles until people started to realize how much distraction there is without them.

My own place is moving towards removing them too, but is laying out a new style of desk all higildy-pigildy with tall plants, artwork etc dotted around the place as a way to absorb voices, noise, visual distractions etc

Theres a good video about this

https://youtu.be/7Tt4n8SaxEY

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117891144#Comment_117891144

As you say, thats fine between 10-12 techs in a startup. I was in Vodafone on a consulting gig a while back. The entire floor I was on was one big office space. The floor was nearly the size of a football field. Just flat desks as far as the eye could see. A horrible, soulless place. I also hate working beside people I don't know or work with. You're sat there in a sea of strangers.

CalisGirl

Tech and Accounting firms seem onboard with the hybrid working. But I've heard from friends/family that the Public service and lots of smaller firms are determined to get their employees back to the office 5 days a week. It'll be interesting to see what way the country goes.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117838949#Comment_117838949

On the one hand you say people should live closer to work, yet also say permanent jobs are hard to get.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117891470#Comment_117891470

The jobs market for anyone in Tech is booming at the moment. Any senior manager forcing their tech staff back into the office will quickly find themselves without any tech staff.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117892171#Comment_117892171

In the short term, when an equilibrium is reached and the wfh jobs are filled, what then?

I asked this earlier, will those who attend offices be more likely to be promoted because they are seen?

Turkish1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117831648#Comment_117831648

Given your strongly held opinion on the WFH topic, I would assume that you know that you can reduce your income tax liability based on the number of days worked from home in the year and this includes costs related to light, heat & broadband (which for most there is no incremental cost). So all those incremental costs you referring to are either reduced or eliminated totally.

What would be your estimate of incremental costs incurred due to working from home for someone working full time from home. I would expect them to be so small as to be completely immaterial.

gmisk

Found out today, we won't be going back in my place til jan-march and then it will likely be 2 or 3 days a week.

There are some people going in on a trial basis Oct to Dec (they volunteered).

Happy with that tbh.

I have heard other departments are going back 4 days a week for all staff (including my old one where I know lots of people)...seemingly lots of staff requesting transfers/mobility already!

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117847994#Comment_117847994

I’m on the planet where I’ve worked for excellent employers, and one average to poor one and one terrible one...

Of the first 10 people off the top of my head now, friends and family....9 have home phones... one I’m not sure about...

if you check the Dublin phone directory you will find tens of thousands of residences still have landlines, that’s just Dublin..

In the short term, when an equilibrium is reached and the wfh jobs are filled, what then?

Bit of a bizarre question. It's not like there's a limit of how many people in the country can work from home.

I asked this earlier, will those who attend offices be more likely to be promoted because they are seen?

The people who contribute the most, who do the best work, are generally the ones who get promoted. Thats how it works in most places.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117892416#Comment_117892416

Why is it bizarre? Surely there will be a limited number of wfh jobs rather than a limit on the numbers who want to wfh.

The second sentence is naive. I have heard a few employer/employee representative contributors being interviewed in Newstalk/The Last Word about hybrid working arrangements, one of the more obvious, and indeed repeated viewpoints was that managers will be tempted to rely more on those that are present in the office, these people also have more opportunity to form relationships with managers/owners.

Flinty997

They'll use Nepotism so it won't matter if the person is working remotely or not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117892487#Comment_117892487

Ah yes newstalk

That most unbiased of platforms

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117892416#Comment_117892416

There's certainly a limit to the number of employers who will offer or require WFH.

And if you think that the best people get promoted... haaaa! I've got a bridge for sale.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117892296#Comment_117892296

How can you have no incremental costs for light and heat? Does your laptop run off solar power? How you heat your house for the extra eight hours a day? I've no option but to stick with Virgin Broadband now, as the only decent quality supplier in my area. The other cheaper suppliers, that would meet my home requirements but not my work requirements are not an option for me.

I claimed all available costs for 2020. From memory, I got a tax credit of around €140, so I'll save tax of about €50. I spent €400 on furniture, and about €250 more on gas and electricity than 2019.

ghoulfinger

Doesn’t some of the factor of WFH depend on whether the employee has access to transport/able to drive? Im big on downsizing emissions, deliberately own a particularly frugal hybrid myself. Now are the WFH folk genuinely able to commute to their employer whatever, once a week or fortnightly or monthly, whatever, or have they resolutely stuck themselves up some beautiful mountain because the scenery is agreeable. I know there’s no ideal solution to this, and once folk have been afforded the easy solution it’s extremely hard to row back