Belarus force down Ryanair plane

looksee

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/forced-landing-of-ryanair-plane-in-belarus-to-detain-activist-unacceptable-eu-says-1.4572846

This looks like a remarkably serious action by Belarus - they forced down a Ryanair plane by saying there was a bomb threat, then arrested journalist/activist Raman Pratasevich while doing security checks on passengers.

This would have to have consequences or chaos will ensue if countries think they can get their way by this kind of force.

Fr Tod Umptious

Why didn't the pilot just tell them to feck off and say that he/she was landing in Lithuania as per their job* ?

*Not a real opinion, I know nothing about aircraft or the procedures in these sorts of circumstances, but it's likely the type of reply you will get around here.

BeerWolf

State sponsored terrorism using a bomb scare to apprehend someone...

He is most likely going to 'disappear'.

Disgusting

VinLieger

Michael O Leary is saying there were also Russian intelligence agents on the flight

pixelburp

Wouldn't trust O'Leary to tell me the time to be honest.How on earth would he possibly know that?

To the OP, what realistic options are there? Feels like a dangerous precedent if allowed to go unanswered, or unpunished. But then given the EU isn't a conventionally aggressive entity I'm not sure what could be done either. Bar the obvious like sanctions.

VinLieger

pixelburp wrote: »

Wouldn't trust O'Leary to tell me the time to be honest.How on earth would he possibly know that?

To the OP, what realistic options are there? Feels like a dangerous precedent if allowed to go unanswered, or unpunished. But then given the EU isn't a conventionally aggressive entity I'm not sure what could be done either. Bar the obvious like sanctions.

Coveney just made the same claim on Newstalk, apparently 3-4 other individuals just up and left the flight in Minsk

[Deleted User]

VinLieger wrote: »

Michael O Leary is saying there were also Russian intelligence agents on the flight

Completely unrelated. They are plane enthusiasts who always wanted to see the inside of a 737-800.

Hodors Appletart

Aegir wrote: »

Completely unrelated. They are plane enthusiasts who always wanted to see the inside of a 737-800.

The language used by both Coveney and MOL this monring ("State sponsored hijacking/State sponsored piracy") suggests some behind the scenes communication and an agreed response.

EU have to be strong here.

purplepanda

Ryanair's Michael O'Leary was totally against a small passenger surcharge towards an Irish Air Corps, defence patrol for aviation security. Probably worried about vast profit margins.

Then he squeals when one of his planes gets diverted by the Belarus Air Force, what a hypocrite. Demanding EU action from nations who actually properly fund their military forces!

This is the same Ryanair company that O'Leary is more than happy to take billions from the nation to ensure his survival during the current Covid19 crisis.

listermint

pixelburp wrote: »

Wouldn't trust O'Leary to tell me the time to be honest.How on earth would he possibly know that?

To the OP, what realistic options are there? Feels like a dangerous precedent if allowed to go unanswered, or unpunished. But then given the EU isn't a conventionally aggressive entity I'm not sure what could be done either. Bar the obvious like sanctions.

Reports of 3 or 4 russian nationals on the plane some now not accounted for.....

Fann Linn

purplepanda wrote: »

Ryanair's Michael O'Leary was totally against a small passenger surcharge towards an Irish Air Corps, defence patrol for aviation security. Probably worried about vast profit margins.

Then he squeals when one of his planes gets diverted by the Belarus Air Force, what a hypocrite. Demanding EU action from nations who actually properly fund their military forces!

This is the same Ryanair company that O'Leary is more than happy to take billions from the nation to ensure it's survivial during the current Covid19 crisis.

Regardless what people think of O Leary or RyanAir he is not the one at fault here.

BeerWolf

pixelburp wrote: »

Bar the obvious like sanctions.

Sanctions will do damn all since the country beds with Russia, and the EU won't do much to Russia due to Gas pipeline.

StevenToast

The outrage over this seems to be greater than when Israel bombed palestinian children to death......no mention of tough sanctions against Israel....Just fake outrage really...

I wonder why that is....

View

VinLieger wrote: »

Michael O Leary is saying there were also Russian intelligence agents on the flight

Belarus is not Russia. And they can’t have been very good if they were supposedly identifiable as intelligence agents.

Samsonsmasher

View wrote: »

Belarus is not Russia. And they can’t have been very good if they were supposedly identifiable as intelligence agents.

They were Belarus KGB or the State Security Committee of the Republic of Belarus or more correctly the KPD. The men involved in capturing this dissident are likely to be members of Belarusian Alpha Group an elite special forces unit controlled by the KPD.
The snatch team posed as fellow passengers on the plane. They presumably were tracking their target for quite sometime and followed him to Athens. If there was a support team they likely left Greece by another route.

listermint

StevenToast wrote: »

The outrage over this seems to be greater than when Israel bombed palestinian children to death......no mention of tough sanctions against Israel....Just fake outrage really...

I wonder why that is....

There is though but the US keeps blocking anything and veto at the security council too.

View

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

They were Belarus KGB or the State Security Committee of the Republic of Belarus or more correctly the KPD. The men involved in capturing this dissident are likely to be members of Belarusian Alpha Group an elite special forces unit controlled by the KPD.
The snatch team posed as fellow passengers on the plane. They presumably were tracking their target for quite sometime and followed him to Athens. If there was a support team they likely left Greece by another route.

That doesn’t alter my point about them being from Belarus, not Russia. People seem to be struggling with the idea they are two different countries.

Samsonsmasher

View wrote: »

That doesn’t alter my point about them being from Belarus, not Russia. People seem to be struggling with the idea they are two different countries.

Belarus is a different country but closely allied with Putin. The Belarussian political military security and social elite identify closely with Russia. So the confusion is forgiveable

VinLieger

View wrote: »

That doesn’t alter my point about them being from Belarus, not Russia. People seem to be struggling with the idea they are two different countries.

Well firstly Coveney is the one saying they were Russian and people are repeating what the person who should know has said. Do you know of a reputable source that says otherwise?

Secondly yes they may Have been members of the Belarusian KGB but thanks to pop culture when people hear KGB they think Russia so its an understandable mistake to make for the average person.

Thirdly as someone else pointed out Russian and Belarusian interests right now are very closely aligned so it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility that they were actually Russian agents assisting Belarus as Russia undoubtedly has a far greater reach outside its own borders than Belarus does.

But continue with your high and mighty pedantry if you wish even though as it stands our Minister for Foreign Affairs has specifically called them Russian.

View

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Belarus is a different country but closely allied with Putin. The Belarussian political military security and social elite identify closely with Russia. So the confusion is forgiveable

It may be understandable but it is one that we shouldn’t make. The fact that we are closely linked to the U.K. in many respects (eg the CTA) doesn’t (or shouldn’t) mean that Ireland is the “U.K. West”.

purplepanda

Fann Linn wrote: »

Regardless what people think of O Leary or RyanAir he is not the one at fault here.

I'm not suggesting he or Ryanair is at fault regarding the hijack, just pointing out his hypocritical views on Defence matters over the years going right back to 9/11.

correct horse battery staple

StevenToast wrote: »

The outrage over this seems to be greater than when Israel bombed palestinian children to death......no mention of tough sanctions against Israel....Just fake outrage really...

I wonder why that is....

Didn’t take long for a whataboutism post in a thread related to Russia and it’s puppets

Imho west should cut off relations with that part of world and seize the billions in assets those criminals are hiding in west often in plain sight.

One thing Russians and their puppies hate is to think the world thinks of them as uncivilised, which is an insult actually in Russia to say someone is uncultured

prawnsambo

View wrote: »

It may be understandable but it is one that we shouldn’t make. The fact that we are closely linked to the U.K. in many respects (eg the CTA) doesn’t (or shouldn’t) mean that Ireland is the “U.K. West”.

This has nothing to do with the perceived closeness of Belarus and Russia. The four people who were reported to have left the plane in Minsk were reported to have been Russian nationals. That information would presumably have come from the passenger manifest.

daheff

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Why didn't the pilot just tell them to feck off and say that he/she was landing in Lithuania as per their job* ?

*Not a real opinion, I know nothing about aircraft or the procedures in these sorts of circumstances, but it's likely the type of reply you will get around here.

fighter jet threatening to turn them into small pieces of flying flaming wreckage may have had something to do with it


also as a pilot would you really not obey authorities who are telling you of a bomb threat ?

prawnsambo

This morning, it seems like there's a bad smell emanating from Belarus



But Ryanair pilots have been issued with nose plugs apparently

Sam Russell

Reports are that four 'Russians' and the Belarus journalist Roman Protasevich plus his companion were not on the flight leaving Minsk to resume the flight to Vilnius.

Now the missing passengers would be on the manifest, which would include their names and the passport details - because Ryanair check the booked name against the passport. Now the name may be fake, and the passport may be fake, but it might be a genuine fake - issued by the official issuing authority - like that used by the KGB.

If anyone knows if the were travelling as Russian or Belarus or any other nationality - it is Ryanair. So ask Ryanair.

The One Doctor

purplepanda wrote: »

Ryanair's Michael O'Leary was totally against a small passenger surcharge towards an Irish Air Corps, defence patrol for aviation security.

A PC-9 can't keep up with a 737. Also a PC9 can't defend other aircraft. It's a light ground attack aircraft, not a fighter.

Sam Russell

The One Doctor wrote: »

A PC-9 can't keep up with a 737. Also a PC9 can't defend other aircraft. It's a light ground attack aircraft, not a fighter.

Remember, civil aviation is not safe over that part of the world - Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (MH17) was a scheduled passenger flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur that was shot down on 17 July 2014 - all lives lost. A Russian missile was responsible - fired by Ukraine dissidents.

I think the EU should ban EU flights from overflying Belarus, and ban Belarus flights - period. That would be for starters.

lawred2

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Why didn't the pilot just tell them to feck off and say that he/she was landing in Lithuania as per their job* ?

*Not a real opinion, I know nothing about aircraft or the procedures in these sorts of circumstances, but it's likely the type of reply you will get around here.

and take the chance that the plane won't explode?

political analyst

purplepanda wrote: »

Ryanair's Michael O'Leary was totally against a small passenger surcharge towards an Irish Air Corps, defence patrol for aviation security. Probably worried about vast profit margins.

Does the UK have a passenger surcharge towards the RAF?! :rolleyes: Our air corps would be useless if a hijacking took place in Irish airspace - surcharge or no surcharge!

purplepanda wrote: »

This is the same Ryanair company that O'Leary is more than happy to take billions from the nation to ensure his survival during the current Covid19 crisis.

Many other Irish businesses have also been financially supported by the State during the pandemic.

The One Doctor

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think the EU should ban EU flights from overflying Belarus, and ban Belarus flights - period. That would be for starters.

Banning the overflight of Belarus is a good idea. Most airlines will do that now anyway. No-one wants to be shot down.