Belarus forces Ryanair plane to divert *NO GENERAL POLITICS* *MOD WARNING POST 1*

Muahahaha

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

How is it whataboutery? Do you know what that means?

We don't know for a fact that the KGB were in the plane. We don't. We weren't there and no one that was there is talking

We dont know the KGB were on the plane and never will for sure, such is the nature of secret services. But we do know is four passengers who were supposedly going from Athens to Vilnus decided to disembark in Minsk. You have to spend 10 days in Covid isolation in Belarus at the moment as well as having proof of negative tests if you're arriving from Greece so its not like they disembarked so they could be tourist for a couple of days in Minsk.

Also if a state is going to go to the trouble of putting fighter jets in the air to force a plane to land and create an international diplomatic storm then placing their secret service agents on the plane itself to keep eyes on their target is pretty standard, they would have been stupid not to do it when running that level of an air hijack and kidnapping operation. There were FSB agents on Navalnys plane when he got poisoned with novichok too, he even tricked a senior FSB officer into admitting it.

john boye

Drifting but Can pax just decide to get off if a plane diverts to another airport en route? Wouldn't it cause trouble if they'd checked bags? I'd assume the 4 who got off in Minsk were travelling light in any case.

Tenger

john boye wrote: »

Drifting but Can pax just decide to get off if a plane diverts to another airport en route? Wouldn't it cause trouble if they'd checked bags? I'd assume the 4 who got off in Minsk were travelling light in any case.

It could cause an issue normally if the bags weren't taken off.
However in this case there is a image of all bags being checked by sniffer dogs on the ramp.
Thus only pax getting back on will have their bags loaded.
Obviously there are other considerations in this particular situation.

grassylawn

I'm confused by the apparent deletion of my last post.

JohnC.

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

It def wasn’t the KGB - disbanded after the USSR came to an end

Probably Belorussian secret service (Kamitet Dziaržaŭnaj Biaspieki) or possibly the FSB (Russian secret service).

They say some Russian speaking stranger was taking photos of him in Athens airport ....

It is officially known as KGB in Belarus still. There's weird translation quirks between English and Belarusian, but it is KGB. Even their website is kgb.by.

john boye

john boye wrote: »

Drifting but Can pax just decide to get off if a plane diverts to another airport en route? Wouldn't it cause trouble if they'd checked bags? I'd assume the 4 who got off in Minsk were travelling light in any case.

Not normally, no.

My folks flew from Faro back to Dublin around the time of the Icelandic volcano eruption a few years ago. The flight was diverted to somewhere in England (I think Manchester) due to the ash cloud and had to wait on the tarmac there for a couple of hours before leaving for Dublin again.

When they landed in Manchester, the person in the third seat got up to talk with the cabin crew. He was gone for ages. As they were taking off again, he sat back down and started sobbing. Turns out his dad lived in Manchester and was seriously ill. He was flying home to Manchester, with no checked luggage, and the only route he could find was to Dublin because of all of the chaos, with a further flight to Manchester from Dublin.

He was flying back to DUB where he was guaranteed to miss the Manchester flight because he'd been sitting on the runway in Manchester for two hours.

robinph

Got diverted on the way from New Zealand to Hong Kong and landed in Taiwan due to a storm. We were stuck there for the day and put up in a hotel until the crew was good to fly again that evening. When we were getting off the plane we were told that our passports would be taken off us as although we were let loose in the city for the day we weren't officially there.

Ended up that the immigration people just waved us all through and didn't hold our passports hostage. I think there was some Taiwan citizens who had managed to get to stay without needed to do the pointless trip back to Hong-Kong and straight back again. The rest of us were stuck there with just our carry on luggage for the day though.

cailinoBAC

https://mobile.twitter.com/HannaLiubakova/status/1397138658961117185

Part of the conversation here.

https://meduza.io/en/news/2021/05/25/belarusian-transport-ministry-publishes-transcript-of-conversation-between-ryanair-pilot-and-minsk-dispatcher

expectationlost

what the situation with flights over the Ukraine/Crimea these days?

LXFlyer

expectationlost wrote: »

what the situation with flights over the Ukraine/Crimea these days?

Russian aircraft stick to Russian airspace to get to/from Crimea which means flying along the eastern side of the Sea of Azov and east of the border with Ukraine.

Look at FR24 and you'll see the corridors taken.

Eastern Ukraine is basically a no-fly zone and Donetsk has no flights.

Ukrainian aircraft still go to the likes of Kharkiv, Zaporizhzhia and Dnipro but that's it.

Tenger

grassylawn wrote: »

I'm confused by the apparent deletion of my last post.

At this point about 25% of the total posts in this thread have been deleted due to trolling, posters bickering, suspicious new members, political rants and/or non-aviation posting.

harmless

I think this thread should really be in current affairs and the info posted here should be from people who have a good understanding of how aviation works.

lulublue22

How effective will the EU flight ban really be ? Having checked flightradar there still seems to be a number of flights over Belorussian air space.

Cookiemunster

lulublue22 wrote: »

How effective will the EU flight ban really be ? Having checked flightradar there still seems to be a number of flights over Belorussian air space.

Were they EU or UK registered airlines? Looking now and all I see are Russian, Belorussian, Turkish and some privates.
Remember also that the national airline Belavia is now banned from entering the EU and the UK where it has half its destinations.

lulublue22

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Were they EU or UK registered airlines? Looking now and all I see are Russian, Belorussian, Turkish and some privates.
Remember also that the national airline Belavia is now banned from entering the EU and the UK where it has half its destinations.

I saw the Belorussian , Russian and Turkish which I expected - I think the private’s might have confused me. I think yesterday I saw some Chinese and Norwegian registered airlines and was wondering how effective a sanction it really is. Given that half Belavia routes are to the EU / UK that must be quite painful.

Piligrim333

john boye wrote:

Drifting but Can pax just decide to get off if a plane diverts to another airport en route? Wouldn't it cause trouble if they'd checked bags? I'd assume the 4 who got off in Minsk were travelling light in any case.

They showed on Belorus TV yesterday two of those four passengers who were allowed to stay in Minsk. All four of them were belorusian citizens who were travelling to Minsk from Athens via Vilnius. They said initially they were not allowed to leave the transit zone but they begged the authorities as their initial plan has been void as the flight from Vilnius to Minsk would have departed before they landed there due to the delay. So eventually they were allowed not to go to Vilnius when the flight departed.
If they had any connection with KGB, nobody knows...

cnocbui

It's ocurred to me that the EU hasn't gone nearly far enough and has left a gaping hole in the sanction. The ban should include any plane that took off from a Belarusian airport. All these should be banned from landing in the EU or transiting EU airspace, irrespective of carrier.

Van.Bosch

cnocbui wrote: »

It's ocurred to me that the EU hasn't gone nearly far enough and has left a gaping hole in the sanction. The ban should include any plane that took off from a Belarusian airport. All these should be banned from landing in the EU or transiting EU airspace, irrespective of carrier.

Yeah - I thought EU Belarus flights were banned but I saw Belavia fly Berlin to Minsk today

Transcript from here

Its been released by the Belarusian Transport Ministry so I don't know if its unedited

Full transcript (original spelling retained)
Pilot: 09:28:58 Minsk, Good day, RYR 1TZ, FL390 approaching SOMAT

ATC:09:29:04 RYR 1TZ, Minsk Control, good afternoon, radar contact.

ATC: 09:30:49 RYR 1TZ, Minsk

Pilot: Yes, go ahead.

ATC: RYR 1TZ for your information, we have information from special services that you have bomb on board and it can be activated over Vilnius.

Pilot: 1TZ Standby.

Pilot. 09:31:17: Ok RYR 1TZ could you repeat the message?

ATC: RYR 1TZ, I say again we have information from special services that you have bomb on board. That bomb can be activated over Vilnius.

Pilot: Roger that, standby.

ATC: 09:31:42: RYR 1TZ for security reason we recommend you to land at UMMS.

Pilot: Ok…that.it.understood give us alternate please.

Pilot:09:32:59: RYR 1TZ

ATC: RYR 1TZ

Pilot: The bomb…direct message, where did it come from? Where did you have information about it from?

ATC: RYR 1TZ stanby please.

ATC: 09:33:42: RYR 1TZ

Pilot: Go ahead.

ATC: RYR 1TZ airport security stuff informed they received e-mail.

Pilot: Roger, Vilnius airport security stuff or from Greece?

ATC: RYR 1TZ this e-mail was shared to several airports.

Pilot: Roger, standby.

Pilot:09:34:49: Radar, RYR 1TZ.

ATC: RYR 1TZ.

Pilot: Could you give us frequency for (unreadable) company so that we would be able to (unreadable).

ATC: RYR 1TZ say again what frequency do you need.

Pilot: We just need to quawk with the operation of the company, if there any frequency for that (unreadable).

ATC. Do you need RYR operation frequency?

Pilot: That is correct 1TZ.

ATC: Standby please.

ATC: RYR 1TZ ,Standby please

Pilot: Standing-by.

Pilot:09:39:30: RYR 1TZ Any adverts?

ATC: RYR 1TZ Standby, waiting for the information.

Pilot: Could you say again that I have to call for the airport that authorities … (unreadable) to divert to.

ATC: RYR 1TZ I read you THREE, say again please.

Pilot:09:39:57: Radar, RYR 1TZ .

ATC : RYR 1TZ ,Go.

Pilot: Can you say again the IATA code of the airport that authorities recommended us to divert to?

ATC: RYR 1TZ roger, standby please.

Pilot: OK, I give you (unreadable) can you say again IATA code of the airport that authorities have recommended us to divert to?

ATC: RYR 1TZ Standby.

Pilot: Standby, Roger.

ATC :09:41:00: RYR 1TZ .

Pilot: Go ahead.

ATC: IATA code is MSQ.

Pilot: can you say again please?

ATC:IATA code MSQ.

Pilot: MSQ, thanks.

Pilot: 09:41:58: RYR 1TZ Again, this recommendation to divert to Minsk where did it come from?Where did it come from?Company? Did it come from departure airport authorities or arrival airport authorities?

ATC: RYR 1TZ this is our recommendations.

Pilot: can you say again?

ATC: RYR 1TZ this is our recommendations.

Pilot : unreadable.

Pilot:Did you say that your recommendation?

ATC: RYR 1TZ , Charlie-Charlie.

ATC: 09.42.49: RYR 1TZ we have ground stuff frequency for Vilnius 131.750

Pilot. 131.75 and we have contact… (unreadable).

ATC:09:44:38 RYR 1TZ advise your decision please?

Pilot: Radar ,RYR 1TZ

ATC:RYR 1TZ advise your decision please.

Pilot; 09:44:52: I need answer the question what is the code of the (unreadable) green, yellow or amber red.

ATC: Standby.

ATC:09:45:09 RYR 1TZ they say code is red.

Pilot: Roger that, in that case we request holding at present position.

ATC: RYR 1TZ Roger, hold over your position, mantain FL390 turns at own discretion.

Pilot; Ok holding at our discretion at present position mantaining FL390 RYR 1TZ.

Pilot:09:47:12: RYR 1TZ we are declaring an emergency MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY RYR 1TZ. our intentions would be to divert to Minsk airport

ATC: RYR 1TZ MAYDAY, Roger.Standby for vectors.

Pilot: Standby RYR 1TZ .

Pilot: 09:48:10 RYR 1TZ request descent to 10000 feet.

ATC: RYR 1TZ , descend FL100.

Pilot: descend (unreadable) RYR 1TZ .

ATC:RYR 1TZ from present position cleared direct point KOLOS : Kilo Oscar Lima Oskar Sierra.

Pilot: Direct to KOLOS RYR 1TZ.

ATC:09:50:15 RYR 1TZ how do you read me?

Pilot: I read you 5 RYR 1TZ .

ATC: Roger.

ATC:09:50:24: RYR 1TZ do you need any aerodrome details and weather information?

Pilot : We can (unreadable)ATIS from Minsk …enough.

ATC: RYR 1TZ do you need ATIS frequency?

Pilot: We got it.09:It is 128.850, 1 TZ.

ATC:09:51:50: RYR 1TZ

Pilot: 1TZ , go ahead.

ATC: RYR 1TZ KOLOS 2H arrival, RW in use 31R and if you need vectors advise.

Pilot: Ok, KOLOS. could you say the (unreadable).

ATC: KOLOS 2H arrival.

Pilot: KOLOS 2H arrival, RW 31R, RYR 1TZ

ATC: And ATIS frequency is 128.850

Pilot: 28.85.

ATC:09:52:29: RYR 1TZ and advise passengers on board and if any dangerous goods on board.

Pilot: No dangerous goods, standby…and we need 130 to avoid.

Pilot:09:53:00 RYR 1TZ turning heading 130 to avoid.

ATC: RYR 1TZ roger heading 130 report clear of weather.

Pilot: WILCO.

Pilot :09:54:45: RYR 1TZ persons on board is 133.

ATC: Persons on board 133 copied thank you.

ATC:09:55:33 RYR 1TZ when ready report estimating time of arrival.

Pilot: 09:56:48: RYR 1TZ request descend 9000 feet.

ATC: RYR 1TZ descend FL90.

Pilot. Descend FL90, RYR 1TZ .

ATC: 09:57:12: RYR 1TZ now contact Minsk approach on 125.9.

Pilot: 125.9, RYR 1TZ

mr.anonymous

How is an EU ban of flights promulgated to operators, airports etc?

goingnowhere

Revolution 1917 wrote: »

Lets remember how President of Bolivia plane been landed in 2013 by USA

Bolivia has expressed its anger after their president's jet was forced to land in Austria on Tuesday night following a tip-off that the fugitive US spy agency contractor Edward Snowden was on board.

State aircraft require diplomatic clearance to fly, very different to commercial aviation. So every time a military aircraft overflies Ireland it requires approval, absolutely no obligation to accept, its case by case. Its not covered by the various conventions

faoiarvok

Revolution 1917 wrote: »

The British AF flying over Ireland as at home

No, they request and are usually granted diplomatic clearance.

Nijmegen

Deleted User wrote: »

Transcript from here

Its been released by the Belarusian Transport Ministry so I don't know if its unedited

Even if it was edited, it reads sketchy AF. You can see the pilots asking and asking for confirmation and long delays when they query, they come across as quite skeptical.

I wonder where the MiG came into it.

grassylawn

The RAF guards our airspace as if it were their own.

faoiarvok

Pilot; 09:44:52: I need answer the question what is the code of the (unreadable) green, yellow or amber red.

ATC: Standby.

ATC:09:45:09 RYR 1TZ they say code is red.

I’m not familiar with this colour code, can any pilots shed some light on what they think it is? Is it a standard measure of the estimated severity/veracity of the threat, or something else?

I understand if it’s not supposed to be public knowledge.

Dohvolle

grassylawn wrote: »

The RAF guards our airspace as if it were their own.

No, they watch their back yard because we don't. Someone in the civil service gave them permission to do so without consulting anyone in the defence forces.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

It definitely reads as the pilots were quite sceptical, particularly when they were asking where the information had come from.

I wonder were they aware of who was on board. I would assume the cabin crew must have been as soon as the diversion was announced and the targeted passengers were talking.

There’s nothing Ryanair could have done other than register their annoyance. There’s not a lot you can do if escorted down other than comply with the instructions.

One would wonder if they’d have actually gone as far as to shoot it down if it had just continued on its way. Certainly isn’t a risk any civilian aircraft is going to take.

Hopefully the intense international attention plays a role in ensuring the safety of the two who were grabbed from the flight.

billie1b

faoiarvok wrote: »

I’m not familiar with this colour code, can any pilots shed some light on what they think it is? Is it a standard measure of the estimated severity/veracity of the threat, or something else?

I understand if it’s not supposed to be public knowledge.

Green is an unessacary response, in other words they know it's a hoax
Amber is a non specific bomb threat, as in they get all call to say there's a bomb at an 'airport' or on an 'aircraft' but don't specify which airport or aircraft, plan will come into place to search the airport without attracting attention or evacuating or if on an aircraft after the cabin crew conduct a security search it will be decided if to continue on the journey or land at nearest airport.
Red is a specific threat, specific loacation of bomb given in a specific location of an airport or an a specific aircraft, full plan goes into play, airport evacuated, bomb squad called in etc etc or if on an aircraft it's an immediate landing at closest suitable airport.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

I’m assuming part of the scepticism could have been that Minsk wasn’t the nearest airport.

The crew may have seen it as more logical to continue to Vilnius or to land sooner at any near by airfield. It’s only a 737-800 so a lot of airports could handle it.

It seemed to involve a fairly significant diversion.

Also would you really want to fly an aircraft with a suspected bomb on board over a large city?

A more remote airfield might be safer.



Doesn’t really make much logical sense as to why it wouldn’t have just continued to its destination and have been met by the emergency services and bomb squad there.

Or if a very serious risk, there must be some alternative smaller airfield around there somewhere.

Ideally, you’d be looking to land somewhere with a more Shannon like space, away from a city.

Nijmegen

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

I’m assuming part of the scepticism could have been that Minsk wasn’t the nearest airport.

The crew may have seen it as more logical to continue to Vilnius or to land sooner at any near by airfield. It’s only a 737-800 so a lot of airports could handle it.

It seemed to involve a fairly significant diversion.

Also would you really want to fly an aircraft with a suspected bomb on board over a large city?

A more remote airfield might be safer.

Doesn’t really make much logical sense as to why it wouldn’t have just continued to its destination and have been met by the emergency services and bomb squad there.

Or if a very serious risk, there must be some alternative smaller airfield around there somewhere.

Ideally, you’d be looking to land somewhere with a more Shannon like space, away from a city.

You can hear the skepticism coming over the transcript from the pilots. "There's a bomb threat" - yeah, ok. "It'll explode over Vilnius".... Err, what? Who said that? Can we contact ground to confirm? With long delays then from the Minsk side in responding to specific queries.

There's a double sword to the danger Belarus has put into civil aviation - the danger to this flight, but also the danger of crews being skeptical about real calls in the future depending on where they may be in the world.

The transcript is also the Minsk version, which you'd expect to paint them in the best light...! Again, no mention of the MiG or what role that may have played.