Vaccine Megathread No 2 - Read OP before posting

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120143825#Comment_120143825

Not really. There are millions of doctors, medical professionals, physicians, vaccine experts and scientists in the world. Unfortunately a handful of them have, let's say, strange or controversial beliefs. I can post a video of a physician who believes there are magnets in the vaccines, a gynaecologist who claims vaccines are "poison", an osteopath who thinks there are "AI" microchips in the vaccines, a virologist and Nobel prize winner who believed Covid was man-made in a lab.

It's not a coincidence we see these same individual experts (and nurses) crop up time and time again from those who share similar beliefs.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120143901#Comment_120143901

At what stage do you think Nurse Campbell went from being an expert voice to be trusted to a crank with strange or controversial beliefs?

ceadaoin.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144058#Comment_120144058

I'm old enough to remember his doomer days when he was the darling of this forum and anyone pointing out he wasnt an MD was a right wing extremist. Now he has changed his position after reviewing the evidence and living through the past few years and he himself is the right wing extremist according to those same people.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120152512#Comment_120152512

He was never the Darling of the forum ! But he wasn't the promoter of rabid misinformation back then either . Must be lucrative for him somehow ...

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120152512#Comment_120152512

He's a nurse who's discovered he can get a lot more views by flirting with anti-vax quackery. It's very lucrative.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120162929#Comment_120162929

He may not have been the darling of this forum, but he was lauded in plenty of places. Not so long ago Nurse Campbell was an expert voice to be magnified to ensure correct and up to date information is disseminated. Amazing how times change.

Magnify the voice of experts: A key strategy for ensuring correct and up-to-date information is disseminated is to support the real experts to engage fully and regularly with the most popular information channels, even if these are more often frequented by a younger demographic. The way that United States academic Trevor Bedford has engaged with Twitter, and retired British nurse teacher John Campbell with YouTube during the current COVID-19 outbreak are excellent examples of this.

https://www.socialscienceinaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/SSHAP-Brief.Online-Information.COVID-19.pdf

Hotblack Desiato

Yeah and Gemma O'Doherty and John Waters were once respected journalists, your point?

Relax brah

I got my second booster last week (fifth dose - Pfizer with the adapted ba4-5) as high risk mid thirties.

I’ve had covid twice (most recently 5 months ago,) I’ve never been so sick after a vaccine. The previous ones had no affect on me, two days after getting the booster last week I couldn’t get out bed. Migraines and muscle fatigue were awful, was literally in bed dying to go to bathroom but couldn’t get myself up (I did eventually before you ask.)

Fairly awful experience, in hindsight I shouldn’t have bothered getting it. Having the virus itself is nowhere near as bad. Won’t be getting another booster, regardless of what my consultant said. Was out of action for at least 5 days

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179067#Comment_120179067

What booster did you get?

I know some people were hit hard by Moderna v Pfizer but usually with Pfizer the side effects diminish with each dose.

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179100#Comment_120179100

My first two doses were moderna. All others since then have been Pfizer. None of them previously made me sick at all.

It was the “Pfizer and adapted BA4-5”

Goldengirl

I was similar after the last booster, Pfizer , bivalent . Miserable with aches pains and fatigue for 48 hours and was starting to think maybe it was more than the booster side effects , when like someone had flicked a switch, I was better!

Had Omicron end of 21 . And you had it you say 5 months before the booster . Wonder if this effect is your body mounting a strong response because of the Omicron immunity which has not been challenged since the infection?

I am high risk also so would be good if that was it .

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179806#Comment_120179806

Just follow up on this.

I ended up in A+E this morning due to sharp chest pains and struggles with breathing throughout the night.

Doctor put it down to Pericarditis as a result of the booster. Scary stuff, felt like I was having a heart attack this morning. Symptoms likely to persist for next two weeks

im done with these vaccines now

Goldengirl

Oh, really ?

Poor you, get well soon !

So what tests did they do on you to confirm that diagnosis ?

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184274#Comment_120184274

ECG, echosound, xray and blood test. One of the tests suggested such.

The doctor was very clear on the diagnosis and even stated they are extremely common at the moment with this latest patch of boosters.

antibiotics prescribes to help with the inflammation with strong painkillers and sleeping tablets as sleep is key to recovery (haven’t slept well since the booster.)

Pretty surreal experience. It’s one thing reading this stuff online and assuming it’s nonsense until it happens to you

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184630#Comment_120184630

Is it a temporary thing? If the inflammation clears up, is is all back to normal?

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184804#Comment_120184804

yes. Timelines vary though, the ED doctor stated my stats showed I was well above average fitness for someone my age so suggests it should clear up in a month or two.

fingers crossed

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120188685#Comment_120188685

That sounds encouraging, best of luck and get well soon!

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184630#Comment_120184630

That certainly is surreal .

Pericarditis resolves quicker than myocarditis and js the better one to get , if there is such a thing !

Take it very easy...until they tell you to get moving again .

I presume they will be checking an echo etc again for you ?

Still vanishingly rare even if more awareness of it now .

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189871#Comment_120189871

Still vanishingly rare even if more awareness of it now .

Nice oxymoron.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190014#Comment_120190014

Yes.

Thanks , I guess .

astrofool

Vaccine evolution developments, we'll need to be ready for the saRNA conspiracies. Also covers the points Bill Gates was making recently (with context) and the likelihood of Pfizer and Moderna (big pharma and small pharma) maintaining dominance.

Would like to see the efficacy of the nasal vaccines, though unlikely to be much different if based off sinovac/pharm.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00220-z

tldr: lots of new tech coming for vaccines.

Spudman_20000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120189871#Comment_120189871

We'd know how "vanishingly rare" they were if Pfizer would actually provide the post-market studies into these types of safety flags that they committed to as part of their EUAs. Of course these studies have been pushed out another 6 months recently.

astrofool

I've posted the relative risks before and how they're vastly in favour of the vaccine, but good analysis of recent claims to the contrary:

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/scientific-evidence-shows-covid-19-mrna-vaccines-effective-benefits-outweigh-risks-retsef-levi/

interesting to see the increased ongoing risks of severe disease across a variety of ailments post infection showing up (and something we're used to here, labelling and then misreading a graph).

Continues to blow holes in the "it was just a flu" and "vaccines are dangerous" crew.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120190665#Comment_120190665

Yes it is " vanishingly rare " , and yes , those studies would be taking that long , as they are, after all , post market studies , especially as the urgency appears to be over in the US, so research is no longer for' emergency use approval" .

Can't see why you are complaining about that .

I seem to remember similar posts griping about original vaccines and the subsequent dosing schedules, despite real world data which showed the safety overall with millions of doses worldwide , and in some cases the dangers, as with AstraZeneca which was swiftly restricted .

Others complaining that these boosters did not have sufficient testing on humans .

Now the complaint is the companies " are not producing data " quickly enough.

Make up your mind what you want ... data tested on humans , under normal 3 to 6 month time frame comparisons , or more quick studies on engineered lab mice .

And if you have any real proof ....not opinion or conjecture or anecdote ...that Covid vaccines, boosters or anything else , are causing a marked and significant increase in myocarditis and pericarditis or deaths in young people , please do post it , because up to now , you haven't .

All I have seen and heard thus far is hearsay and misinformation.

Here is the situation in the UK up to November last , and even then people here were claiming otherwise ...

" As of 23 November 2022, the overall reporting rate across all age groups for myocarditis following vaccination with the monovalent Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was 10 reports per million doses; for pericarditis, it was 6 reports per million doses. For monovalent Moderna vaccine, the overall reporting rate for myocarditis was 14 reports per million doses; for pericarditis, it was 8 reports per million doses.

In those aged under 18 years, the reported rate for heart inflammation (myocarditis and pericarditis) was 13 per million first doses and 8 per million second doses of the monovalent Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine; these are lower than the reporting rates seen in young adults. There is currently insufficient data to calculate the reporting rate for third/booster doses" .

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination/myocarditis-and-pericarditis-after-covid-19-vaccination-guidance-for-healthcare-professionals#:~:text=Reports%20of%20myocarditis%20and%20pericarditis,of%20the%20Pfizer/BioNTech%20vaccine.

Nobody denies that vaccination carries a risk, especially to younger adult males, of developing myocarditis and pericarditis. The risks are clearly written on all the literature.

But It is just that , so far anyway , it is such a small risk compared with everyday risk of Covid infection causing the same problem but worse , as to be considered low enough to be worth the risk/ benefit ratio , even for that age group 18 to 29 year old males.

If as that poster claimed above , the doctor indeed had found it was becoming more common , there are immediate pathways of reporting what would be a severe adverse event of vaccination . And other doctors would be setting off that alarm as well , again, if that was truly the case . This triggers a review as with AstraZeneca and Janssen here and in other countries .

The British Heart Foundation don't seem to be unduly concerned!

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/coronavirus-and-your-health/coronavirus-vaccine-your-questions-answered/myocarditis-and-covid-19-vaccines-should-you-be-worried

One would think that they should be up in arms if the health of their nation were being put at risk daily .

Do you really think it would not be reported and boosters stopped , here and elsewhere even before the safety study data was out , if it was in fact causing such a severe response ?

Ok.. maybe YOU do . But that is going down a long , winding rabbit hole of CT , imo.

It is not a REASONABLE belief given our experiences thus far with our ultra cautious vaccine authority, NIAC , here in Ireland . Safety has always been uppermost on their minds .

So much so that at times , people have complained the rollout was too slow , why weren't they being given this and that vaccine like other countries, why wait for so long between doses ...you just have to look back over this thread to see those discussions and we were all impatient , myself included , at times .

Now some people are choosing whether they need a booster or not . That is their choice and we are in a better place to do that , with more immunity and a less virulent variant . But everybody needs to have facts to make their decisions . And not just sensationalist op eds from trashy news sites or poor science review fora .

Or maybe..

Let's wait for the post bivalent booster studies to complete and be published and in the absence of real data not be arguing over something that may just be another red herring . Like so many others before ..

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184804#Comment_120184804

the heart cells cannot be regenerated, that's why we don't get cancer of the heart.

If you damage your heart in some way, that's gonna stay. Most mio/pericarditis are mild enough to allow for normal life, but they will impact life expectancy in the long run

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270531#Comment_120270531

And not to mention that the risk of myocarditis is substantially higher just after Covid

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120270531#Comment_120270531

You are assuming damage = death of tissue . Like any other muscle when injured or infected it initially becomes inflamed . Most cases of myocarditis ( which is inflammation of the heart muscle ) do not lead to permanent scarring and resolve , although it can take time . . People are advised to rest and take it easy for a number of weeks/ months to allow this inflammation to settle completely in order to prevent any permanent damage .

The biggest danger is people who continue exercising , because the age group in which it commonly occurs would be more active generally. Some cases are so mild that people only present when they find they cannot excercise as normal and they are found to have abnormal cardiac investigations.

It is scarring that is permanent damage. As said before cases are rare , and permanent damage even rarer. However the risk is there and it is a serious risk however small .

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/myocarditis-covid-vaccine-research-long-term-effects-rcna55666

Unfortunately while it is usually those that require hospitalisation for symptoms of breathlessness and chest pain that would have more severe illness that may lead to permanent damage, sometimes those that develop it may have had a mild illness to begin with but it becomes worse as time goes on .

It is however misinformation to say that myocarditis leads to permanent cardiac muscle damage.. Also that it will all lead to reduction in life expectancy however mild ...Where have you read this because it has never been the case before now and it is just an assumption based on no evidence and incorrect information ..

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-myocarditis-covid19-vaccine-idUSL1N2S924L

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120272594#Comment_120272594

According to doctors myocarditis create scars, thus permanent damage

"In simple terms, myocarditis is a disease that causes inflammation of the heart muscle. This inflammation enlarges and weakens the heart, creates scar tissue and forces it to work harder to circulate blood and oxygen throughout the body."

"there is no known treatment for viral myocarditis"

https://www.myocarditisfoundation.org/about-myocarditis/