Sued for doing the legal thing?

ted1

odyssey06 wrote: »

This is what you wrote???
"Up until recently ambulance staff didn’t carry and couldn’t administer Epi pens"

Yes. Mad isn’t it. Good to common sense prevailed and they can do it now.

www.thejournal.ie/medical-emergencies-new-law-2389471-Oct2015/%3famp=1

KaneToad

screamer wrote: »

She still didn’t deserve to die

I don't think anyone has suggested she did.

Guy:Incognito

Antares35 wrote: »

In my opinion it is hiding. It wasn't methadone. It's also very easy to engage in what aboutery.

Even if they were hiding behind legislation or anything else, if the law says they dont have to give it out and they dont, that should be the matter closed, no case for redress, settlements or anything else.
Even if the pharmacist openly stated they dont care if someone died, it still wouldnt change the law and that should be the end of it.

SupaCat95

odyssey06 wrote: »

Which begs the question for me in this scenario who was going to administer the epipen even if one had been dispensed?
Evidence unclear the mother or sick girl were trained / had experience of applying one.

She had the Epipen but she forgot it, she also forgot her back up prescription. She would also have been given a talk to after the first incident, this was the 3rd or 4th. They decided to ignore the medical profession talking or failed learn about the condition.

KaneToad

ted1 wrote: »

Trained ? You are clearly not familiar with them. No training needed. They are designed to be used by anyone.

"The court heard Emma was diagnosed with a nut allergy at five years old and went to hospital three times after her lips swelled after contact with nuts. This was resolved with an epipen each time.

Ms Sloan said she was not given any advice on how to use the epipen or how serious the allergy could be. “We were never told she could die from this or that we should be carrying an epipen at all times,” she said.

She told the coroner she could not recall getting instruction in using the epipen by a nurse at Our Lady’s Hospital, Crumlin in January 2009."

This whole tragic incident is not black & white. There seems to be a lot of grey. Lots of confusion. And misinterpretation. The unfortunate outcome was the death of a child. Hopefully it won't happen again. I've read that the mother has campaigned to ensure this is the case. Which is a very noble thing for her to do.

ted1

KaneToad wrote: »

"We were never told she could die from this or that we should be carrying an epipen at all times,” she said.
"

Does indeed seem odd and highly questionable . I know when something happens my daughter I Google the f@@€; out if it.

screamer

Training is not needed to use an epi pen. They’ve simple instructions, open, stab in the leg press plunger. If you ever had a severe anaphylactic reaction, you’d understand that as your body starts to shut down, anything you need to self administer has to be simple to do.

odyssey06

ted1 wrote: »

Yes. Mad isn’t it. Good to common sense prevailed and they can do it now.

www.thejournal.ie/medical-emergencies-new-law-2389471-Oct2015/%3famp=1

That law was brought in after the tragic death in this case?

"Varardkar says that pharmacists would now be able to administer adrenaline without a prescription provided the pharmacist has been given the correct training."

SupaCat95

screamer wrote: »

She still didn’t deserve to die, I’d give my epi pen to anyone who was in anaphylactic shock, I wouldn’t care about the rules they broke, I’d be delighted to help them when they’re in the throes of that. It’s bloody awful, and unless you’ve experienced it, you can’t imagine the horror of it.

Now hold on a second I never said she deserved to die but she is responsible for her own condition.

Now what if you gave your Epi-pen away, what is the first thing you would do? Replace the pen immediately. If it is that important you shouldnt be outside the door without it.

odyssey06

screamer wrote: »

Training is not needed to use an epi pen. They’ve simple instructions, open, stab in the leg press plunger. If you ever had a severe anaphylactic reaction, you’d understand that as your body starts to shut down, anything you need to self administer has to be simple to do.

And yet at the time of this case many medical professionals were not legally allowed to do so or there would have been no need for the 2015 law.

screamer

odyssey06 wrote: »

And yet at the time of this case many medical professionals were not legally allowed to do so or there would have been no need for the 2015 law.

The law is an ass, as we can see in this case.

Dav010

odyssey06 wrote: »

And yet at the time of this case many medical professionals were not legally allowed to do so or there would have been no need for the 2015 law.

Where did you get this from?

screamer

SupaCat95 wrote: »

Now hold on a second I never said she deserved to die but she is responsible for her own condition.

Now what if you gave your Epi-pen away, what is the first thing you would do? Replace the pen immediately. If it is that important you shouldnt be outside the door without it.

I get that, but she was only a teenager, and people sometimes make mistakes. Her life was a huge price to pay for making a mistake.

SupaCat95

KaneToad wrote: »

I've read that the mother has campaigned to ensure this is the case. Which is a very noble thing for her to do.

Time would have better spent reading about the condition and teaching the daughter. Even 5 minute spent making sure she had a reserve prescription or back up pen.

odyssey06

Dav010 wrote: »

Where did you get this from?

It seems to be the gist of this article on the new law

The Irish Pharmacy Union has welcomed today’s announcement saying that it is something they have campaigned for “over an long number of years”.
“It is a clear acknowledgment of the clinical expertise of community pharmacists,” said IPU president Kathy Maher.

https://www.thejournal.ie/medical-emergencies-new-law-2389471-Oct2015/?amp=1/

Antares35

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Even if they were hiding behind legislation or anything else, if the law says they dont have to give it out and they dont, that should be the matter closed, no case for redress, settlements or anything else.
Even if the pharmacist openly stated they dont care if someone died, it still wouldnt change the law and that should be the end of it.

I know how the law works. I wasn't commenting on it's merit.

SupaCat95

screamer wrote: »

I get that, but she was only a teenager, and people sometimes make mistakes. Her life was a huge price to pay for making a mistake.

No, not "only a teenager", teenagers need to be taught responsibility by their parents for "their" condition. Being "only a teenager" doesnt absolve you from responsibility of your condition.

grassylawn

I needed to get important medication without a prescription for a family member on a few occasions from more than one pharmacist. I never had any issue. They just would give you three days instead of a month's supply so that it wasn't missed while a prescription was sorted out.

Guy:Incognito

grassylawn wrote: »

I needed to get important medication without a prescription for a family member on a few occasions from more than one pharmacist. I never had any issue. They just would give you three days instead of a month's supply so that it wasn't missed while a prescription was sorted out.

This is a thread in the legal forum about a settlement though. Do you think you should be able to sue the pharmacist if they said no, even though the law says they dont have to give you anything?

SupaCat95

grassylawn wrote: »

I needed to get important medication without a prescription for a family member on a few occasions from more than one pharmacist. I never had any issue. They just would give you three days instead of a month's supply so that it wasn't missed while a prescription was sorted out.

Now were you known to the Pharmacy or in general in the town? Did they have a regular prescription there? Not really the same is it?

KaneToad

SupaCat95 wrote: »

Time would have better spent reading about the condition and teaching the daughter. Even 5 minute spent making sure she had a reserve prescription or back up pen.

I know nothing about these people. But, generally, not everyone has the same standard of literacy. Medical literacy too can be even more challenging.

There is a long established history of people divesting their health to the professionals. The idea of "doctor knows best". There are many people who would not even countenance reading about their condition.

Antares35

SupaCat95 wrote: »

Now were you known to the Pharmacy or in general in the town? Did they have a regular prescription there? Not really the same is it?

Oh god here we go again. Have we not already established that an existing relationship with the pharmacy is not a pre-requisite to the dispensing of emergency medicine?

B.A._Baracus

KaneToad wrote: »

"... Ms Sloan said she was not given any advice on how to use the epipen or how serious the allergy could be. “We were never told she could die from this or that we should be carrying an epipen at all times,” she said.

She told the coroner she could not recall getting instruction in using the epipen by a nurse at Our Lady’s Hospital, Crumlin in January 2009..."

At the risk of sounding insensitive I don't believe that for one second.
I get that maybe when she said that she was grieving and wanted to blame somebody. But it comes off as "nobody told me" defense. Sue culture after all.

Ahhh the whole thing is messy. Lesson learned is look after yourself and don't rely on anyone.

SupaCat95

KaneToad wrote: »

I know nothing about these people. But, generally, not everyone has the same standard of literacy. Medical literacy too can be even more challenging.

There is a long established history of people divesting their health to the professionals. The idea of "doctor knows best". There are many people who would not even countenance reading about their condition.

Its not that hard, "Anaphylactic shock" = "Do not eat nuts or anything made with nuts or eat or drink anywhere nuts are consumed".

That long history is long gone with improved education standards and access to the internet. Information is no longer kept hidden away in expensive books in massive libraries that the public cannot access. You are responsible for your own education.

SupaCat95

Antares35 wrote: »

Oh god here we go again. Have we not already established that an existing relationship with the pharmacy is not a pre-requisite to the dispensing of emergency medicine?

Who would you give medication to first? Someone you absolutely knew who had a condition or someone who came in off the street looking for medication that you didnt know from Adam? What if you gave out the wrong medication? Who would be responsible then? Should the pharmacist be struck off then?

wonski

grassylawn wrote: »

I needed to get important medication without a prescription for a family member on a few occasions from more than one pharmacist. I never had any issue. They just would give you three days instead of a month's supply so that it wasn't missed while a prescription was sorted out.

First of all you shouldn't get it.

Secondly allowing epipens being given out in Dublin City centre? Great idea it is not

KaneToad

SupaCat95 wrote: »

Its not that hard, "Anaphylactic shock" = "Do not eat nut or anything make with nuts or eat or drink anywhere nuts are consumed".

That long history is long gone with improved education standards and access to the internet. Information is no longer kept hidden away in expensive books in massive libraries that the public cannot access. You are responsible for your own education.

For you, or I, it's not that hard. But I'm fortunate, I had a stable childhood and an uninterrupted education including 5 yrs of tertiary education.

"The OECD Adult Skills Survey shows that 17.9% or about 1 in 6, Irish adults are at or below level 1 on a five level literacy scale. At this level a person may be unable to understand basic written information.

25% or 1 in 4 Irish adults score at or below level 1 for numeracy. At this level a person may have problems doing simple math calculations. 42% of Irish adults score at or below level 1 on using technology to solve problems and accomplish tasks."

Antares35

SupaCat95 wrote: »

Who would you give medication to first? Someone you absolutely knew who had a condition or someone who came in off the street looking for medication that you didnt know from Adam? What if you gave out the wrong medication? Who would be responsible then? Should the pharmacist be struck off then?

Absolutely irrelevant to my point which is that you've already had your implication that there needs to be a pre-existing relationship with the pharmacist, debunked. So why are you still asking people this?

ted1

SupaCat95 wrote: »

Its not that hard, "Anaphylactic shock" = "Do not eat nut or anything make with nuts or eat or drink anywhere nuts are consumed"..

1. That’s virtually impossible these days.
2. There’s lots of triggers, in my mother’s case she was gifted a plant, was watering it and triggered a reaction

After a long investigation it was discovered that thec Lent came from the Netherlands at a facility that uses seaweed fertiliser. Nuts are not an issue.

SupaCat95

ted1 wrote: »

1. That’s virtually impossible these days.
2. There’s lots of triggers, in my mother’s case she was gifted a plant, was watering it and triggered a reaction

After a long investigation it was discovered that thec Lent came from the Netherlands at a facility that uses seaweed fertiliser. Nuts are not an issue.

Sorry my mistake.
"nut allergy" = "Do not eat nuts or anything made with nuts or eat or drink anywhere nuts are consumed".
That was a first time reaction for your mother? This girl was her 3rd or 4th time.