Sued for doing the legal thing?

NickNickleby

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Surely he could have grabbed an epipen, escorted the girl's mother to the scene and then assessed the situation, if needs be. He obviously didn't care.

I agree with the underlined bit, however perhaps he couldn't leave the pharmacy unattended. Why didn't the mother bring the girl with her?

The bit I bolded above is an absolutely disgraceful and nasty comment to make.

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Why would that make a difference? Surely an 80 year old having an allergic reaction is as deserving of an epipen as a teenager? Why does the pharmacist get to decide who lives and who dies?

..more of the same there.

Antares35

SupaCat95 wrote: »

I was following the story at the time

We shall all bow to your superior knowledge so.

khalessi

SupaCat95 wrote: »

The legislation has changed in the last two years.

The girl wasnt in the shop. There is always an ambulance in O Connell street. Which would have reacted a lot faster than strolling to the chemist.

Curious about this, was speaking to member of DFB, there isnt an ambulance stationed in O' Connell Street. There are ambulances in the stations near by, Phiborough, Tara Street etc. I know at the time there wasnt an ambo stationed in O' Connell Street. Is this a new thing?

lawred2

SupaCat95 wrote: »

No but the Pharmacist isnt entirely responsible. If you go wandering down the train track late at night drunk, is the train driver responsible if you get run over by a train? The individual bears the responsibility for their own condition.

Jumping the shark with that analogy

LawBoy2018

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

No relationship whatsoever. I've gotten an emergency inhaler in Dublin, Kerry, Clare, Cork & Galway.

You should be a bit more careful about your medication.

calfmuscle

SupaCat95 wrote: »

Well she did break so many rules. She had a history of episodes. She didnt have her epipen. She didnt have her back up prescription. She went into place that served peanuts. Her mother never called an ambulance despite being in O'Connell street. How does that make any sense?

Its not a god complex the law prevents a god complex it is highly regulated. That protects both the professional and the patient.

I have a condition and I always have my mediation with me or in the car. Only once or twice it has had to be used in an emergency but I wouldn't be caught dead outside the door without it. When I go on holidays I have my medication on my person and an emergency prescription with me. I am responsible for myself and my own condition. That means I need not only know how to monitor my mediation but I have to understand my own condition. I cant blame anyone if I screw up.

You have a god complex, you say you would never be with out your meds. One day you will mess up. People always do. Iv a chronic condition for 25 years, it's rare I leave the house without what I need but it has happened. I hope People will help you when you do make that mistake.

Antares35

ecoli3136 wrote: »

You should be a bit more careful about your medication.

I knew that statement was going to invite some finger wagging

Mullaghteelin

I remember wondering at the time why the girl was not brought into the pharmacy with the mother. It would have been hard for the pharmacist to deny the severity of the situation if she had done. It sounds the mother failed to explain the situation properly, considering how the pharmacist believed the medicine was for the mother herself.

KaneToad

Dayo93 wrote: »

It sounds like the mother didn't really understand the severity of her daughters condition which is strange considering she had had a number of earlier reactions

"The court heard Emma was diagnosed with a nut allergy at five years old and went to hospital three times after her lips swelled after contact with nuts. This was resolved with an epipen each time."

Previous encounters with nuts required a trip to the hospital and an effective remedy was administered. The fatal incident was much more serious.

The family could be forgiven for thinking they had more time - presuming their history of epi pens & hospitals wasn't as time sensitive as the tragic, fatal incident.

SupaCat95

calfmuscle wrote: »

You have a god complex, you say you would never be with out your meds. One day you will mess up. People always do. Iv a chronic condition for 25 years, it's rare I leave the house without what I need but it has happened. I hope People will help you when you do make that mistake.

If I forget my medication (bare in mind I am paranoid about it, backed up in the car, backpack, keychain), who is responsible then?

calfmuscle

ecoli3136 wrote: »

You should be a bit more careful about your medication.

You should stop judging people with chronic illness

ted1

SupaCat95 wrote: »

A pharmacist isnt a doctor they are not near the same profession. He did not see or assess the person.

Anaphylactic shock is a fairly serious condition, but the patient broke so many rules.

A patient is a minor.
Pharmacist ate not doctors , they are highly trained medical professionals. Who specialises in drugs.

calfmuscle

SupaCat95 wrote: »

If I forget my medication (bare in mind I am paranoid about it, backed up in the car, backpack, keychain), who is responsible then?

The health service and emergency services are their to support you, that includes pharmacies who are allowed to administer emergency meds, as previously stated to help you. Which brings us full circle to why this pharmacist made a mistake in not giving out the epipen.hence the settlement agreement.

kirving

KaneToad wrote: »

Does any rational person believe that this pharmacist thought for one second that there was a child in imminent danger that could only be saved by him dispensing an epi pen?

But the rationale of some is this thread is nuts. Does the situation seem so unbelievable that it didn't even justify further investigation by the pharmacist?

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

So he was being hysterically asked for a prescription item by a person had no symptoms of needing one. He likely deals with regular drug-seeking, and this would have fit the pattern.

For a person with a known nut allergy, going to a buffet for a meal pretty much is equivalent to a drunken railway ramble.

Each case had to be taken on its own merit, pretty standard scientific method right there.

Say you were mugged in a nice area, and the Garda says "I don't believe you, that's not what normally goes on around here". That's the logic you're applying.

SupaCat95

Dav010 wrote: »

T

On the contrary, Pharmacists have an in depth knowledge of medications and anaphylaxis. Their job, and the public depend on that knowledge.

They do have a knowledge but they are not licensed to prescribed certain controlled medications. That is crossing a boundary.

ted1

SupaCat95 wrote: »

The legislation has changed in the last two years.

The girl wasnt in the shop. There is always an ambulance in O Connell street. Which would have reacted a lot faster than strolling to the chemist.

Up until recently ambulance staff didn’t carry and couldn’t administer Epi pens. With my mother’s first reaction I called 999 and the local Doctor. The doctor arrived just before the ambulance. He went in the ambulance and administered 3 epi pens. She would of died had the doctor not been there. Lucky we had a energetic locum working in the gp practice

SupaCat95

calfmuscle wrote: »

The health service and emergency services are their to support you, that includes pharmacies who are allowed to administer emergency meds, as previously stated to help you. Which brings us full circle to why this pharmacist made a mistake in not giving out the epipen.hence the settlement agreement.

You want me to put my trust in the HSE..... I think I would rather not based on my family history with them. I am responsible for me and my condition.

ted1

SupaCat95 wrote: »

If I forget my medication (bare in mind I am paranoid about it, backed up in the car, backpack, keychain), who is responsible then?

What’s the shelf life like on your medicine? Epi pens have a short one. So back ups can be tricky

Dav010

In this incredibly sad situation their were a series of unfortunate events, the poor girl came in unexpected contact with an allergen, she didn’t have a pen, there was a severe anaphylactic reaction, the Pharmacist, though acting lawfully misinterpreted the severity of the reaction and the girl died. Any one of those events, if it had happened differently would not have resulted in a young girl dying. But they did happen and unfortunately both the family and Pharmacist will have to live with the consequences of that tragedy. No one is to blame, but there is no doubt it could have been averted had the Pharmacist ignored the need for a script and administered the adrenaline.

To say the Pharmacist would have been prosecuted for administering the epinephrine is incorrect, but codes of practice are there for a reason, to protect the public.

SupaCat95

ted1 wrote: »

Up until recently ambulance staff didn’t carry and couldn’t administer Epi pens. With my mother’s first reaction I called 999 and the local Doctor. The doctor arrived just before the ambulance. He went in the ambulance and administered 3 epi pens. She would of died had the doctor not been there. Lucky we had a energetic locum working in the gp practice

That was your mothers first reaction? This was the daughters 3rd or 4th reaction and she still didnt learn. I know someone (adult) who has diabetes and still doesnt acknowledge it and then wonders why she end up in trouble.

You cant medicate for stupid.

odyssey06

ted1 wrote: »

Up until recently ambulance staff didn’t carry and couldn’t administer Epi pens. With my mother’s first reaction I called 999 and the local Doctor. The doctor arrived just before the ambulance. He went in the ambulance and administered 3 epi pens. She would of died had the doctor not been there. Lucky we had a energetic locum working in the gp practice

Which begs the question for me in this scenario who was going to administer the epipen even if one had been dispensed?
Evidence unclear the mother or sick girl were trained / had experience of applying one.

screamer

Very sad all around. If any of you have anaphylaxis you’ll know the horror of it. There is no time, your body just starts to shut down quickly, it’s the closest I’ve ever been to dying, and it felt like it too.
Any pharmacist should be able to see anaphylactic shock and know what it is. In this case, there was wrong in all sides, personally had I been the pharmacist I’d have given the Epi pen. Even with using one, there’s no guarantee the person will live, it depends on the severity of the reaction. Poor girl, an awful way to die.

SupaCat95

ted1 wrote: »

What’s the shelf life like on your medicine? Epi pens have a short one. So back ups can be tricky

Two years, stored in nitrogen gas for sterility but they get constantly rotated.

B.A._Baracus

Wow nearly 8 years ago. There was a big thread about it back in the day too.

Sad but it's just one of those things that shouldn't have happened but divides people. Eg, pharmacy should have given the EpiPen, family should have had one, she should have had one etc.


A series of unfortunate events.

odyssey06

screamer wrote: »

Very sad all around. If any of you have anaphylaxis you’ll know the horror of it. There is no time, your body just starts to shut down, it’s the closest I’ve ever been to dying, and it feels like it too.
Any pharmacist should be able to see anaphylactic shock and know what it is. In this case, there was wrong in all sides, personally had I been the pharmacist I’d have given the Epi pen. Even with using one, there’s no guarantee the person will live, it depends on the severity of the reaction. Poor girl, an awful way to die.

The pharmacist never saw the girl.
We dont know how it would have played out if they had.

SupaCat95

screamer wrote: »

Even with using one, there’s no guarantee the person will live, it depends on the severity of the reaction. Poor girl, an awful way to die.

But look how many rules she broke? Look how many times she had reactions and she didnt learn.

ted1

odyssey06 wrote: »

Which begs the question for me in this scenario who was going to administer the epipen even if one had been dispensed?
Evidence unclear the mother or sick girl were trained / had experience of applying one.

Trained ? You are clearly not familiar with them. No training needed. They are designed to be used by anyone.

Antares35

SupaCat95 wrote: »

... and she didnt learn.

Christ on a bike

screamer

SupaCat95 wrote: »

But look how many rules she broke? Look how many times she had reactions and she didnt learn.

She still didn’t deserve to die, I’d give my epi pen to anyone who was in anaphylactic shock, I wouldn’t care about the rules they broke, I’d be delighted to help them when they’re in the throes of that. It’s bloody awful, and unless you’ve experienced it, you can’t imagine the horror of it.

odyssey06

ted1 wrote: »

Trained ? You are clearly not familiar with them. No training needed. They are designed to be used by anyone.

This is what you wrote???
"Up until recently ambulance staff didn’t carry and couldn’t administer Epi pens"