How difficult is it to convert a van to camper?

Pussyhands

Could you learn as you go?

Transits look nice and high, a good size. Would these be the most recommended? Doesn't seem too many available online.

Pussyhands

Pussyhands wrote: »

Could you learn as you go?

Transits look nice and high, a good size. Would these be the most recommended? Doesn't seem too many available online.

Its not difficult to convert a panel van, every job is doable by competent diyer. Things to consider are
Plan for gas fitting at the start and get a Gas fitter to do the work, this will give you a gas cert which you will need for your suitably qualified person who certifies that it qualifies as a camper.
Try to get a van which will take captain seats because most insurers want front to back access
Standing headroom is important for insurance purposes
Ford transits are good candidates but older ones almost universally have bad rust issues which makes them a poor long term investment.

For me there are no really excellent donor vehicles available apart from Mercedes sprinters or vw crafter's, everything else is lacking in some department.

Shoog

CJhaughey

Shoog wrote: »

Its not difficult to convert a panel van, every job is doable by competent diyer. Things to consider are
Plan for gas fitting at the start and get a Gas fitter to do the work, this will give you a gas cert which you will need for your suitably qualified person who certifies that it qualifies as a camper.
Try to get a van which will take captain seats because most insurers want front to back access
Standing headroom is important for insurance purposes
Ford transits are good candidates but older ones almost universally have bad rust issues which makes them a poor long term investment.

For me there are no really excellent donor vehicles available apart from Mercedes sprinters or vw crafter's, everything else is lacking in some department.

Shoog

Sprinters can rust just as badly as Transits.
The most popular vans are Ducato primarily because they have the width to enable cross van beds which saves on space.
Renault Masters are also decent vans to convert

Look at Colm's Ducato Build in the builds subforum and Bufords Transit.

I was looking at the Renaults traffic/master and reliability of the engines seem to be the fly in the ointment.
I would say that the Ford Transit would be top of the list - but that rust free example is rare as hens teeth.
Your right that the Ducato is the goto candidate, but you don't see many panel vans second hand.

Shoog

CJhaughey

Not many bad reports about the Renault 2.5 or 2.8 engines , they are pretty solid. If you can find a decent one its definately worth a look.
There aren't that many Ducato Panel vans around, and the Pug and Citroen variants don't have the 2.3 Multijet which is better than the 2.2 engines.
Also don't look past the Nissan NV400 which is a rebadged Master or the Opel/Vauxhall Movano

Pussyhands

And where can you learn how to do things? i.e simple things like attaching panelling inside, can you screw straight into metal or how is it attached.

CJhaughey

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1624

Pussyhands

Pussyhands wrote: »

And where can you learn how to do things? i.e simple things like attaching panelling inside, can you screw straight into metal or how is it attached.

There is a Youtube vid for every task.
make certain that you get the spec that a Suitably Qualified Person will assess your conversion on before you start. There is also a gas fitters specification for mobile homes which will help you think the process of locating your cooker and gas bottle (we came a cropper on this part and it nearly scuppered us)
Finally get an idea of what Dolmen and Stewarts define as their minimum spec for insuring, its not the same as the revenues specification which is now in line with EU law.

if you ignore what makes it easy to get insured then your making a huge rod for your own back.



Shoog

Pussyhands

Shoog wrote: »

There is a Youtube vid for every task.
make certain that you get the spec that a Suitably Qualified Person will assess your conversion on before you start. There is also a gas fitters specification for mobile homes which will help you think the process of locating your cooker and gas bottle (we came a cropper on this part and it nearly scuppered us)
Finally get an idea of what Dolmen and Stewarts define as their minimum spec for insuring, its not the same as the revenues specification which is now in line with EU law.

if you ignore what makes it easy to get insured then your making a huge rod for your own back.



Shoog

Thank you!

Who assesses it?

Pussyhands

Pussyhands wrote: »

Thank you!

Who assesses it?

You should find a local engineer who has status of been a suitably qualified person, he comes and completes a checklist of the revenues requirements for a reclassification, takes some photos and then submits the paperwork to the revenue on your behalf. Its a very straightforward process but some SQP are much more picky than others so shop around to find one who seems reasonable. I would contact him before you start once you have your vehicle as he will give you a few pointers to save trouble down the line. His fee is around €200., once the revenue have accepted his paperwork they will send out a VRT assessment for the change in value from a panel van to a Camper, VRT is based upon the commercial value of the camper in the current market. We paid €330.00 on our converted VW T4.


Shoog

Pinch Flat

My brother converted a Renault traffic (ex bread van). Pretty easy - he's a competent DIY'er. he got some help cutting in a new side window and a few vents lights / vents in the roof. All worked well without leaks. The most expensive part was seats for the Kids - they needed extra seats as only 3 upfront. So these need to be specially fitted and tested. Rest of the kitchen units were upcycled / bespoke. Ended up with a double bed in the back, beds for the kids and, cooker, sink and a battery for running lights etc when the engine off. Also had an inverter for 240v.

Mango Joe

Pussyhands wrote: »

And where can you learn how to do things? i.e simple things like attaching panelling inside, can you screw straight into metal or how is it attached.

Your first job is to read through a few of the blogs online where people have documented the whole process step by step and supplied a tonne of photos showing all of the detail, considerations, problems, solutions, skill and often downright ingenuity involved.

After an hour or two of reading these you should have a fairly accurate idea of whether your skillset and abilities are going to be enough to make this project an enjoyable worthwhile venture or a frustrating, horrible money-pit where you end up in a shambles of a van conversion with dripping condensation, moody electrics, a potential gas time-bomb and an empty wallet.

For me I know that a nice ambitious plan like this would definitely be biting off more than I could chew - The fun and romance would be killed stone dead by things going wrong, mistakes, confusion, dread, fear....a longing to get my evenings and weekends back.

At the end of it I would certainly not have an end-result I'd be happy with - there would be gaps, creaks, loose bits, wiring given trouble thats long-since been routed to inaccessible crevices....and 101 other nightmare scenarios.

Choose your path wisely!!!!

Colm_McMs Conversion is linked below.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057982003

Took us about 6months to convert our VW T4 but we were learning as we went along. If I was doing it again could have it done in a few months. I built all the units myself which kept them light if not professional looking. If you don't want that then custom made units can be unreasonably expensive so its a good idea to start picking up things well in advance of starting the job - you can save a packet if your not under time pressure.

Shoog

You'll get it right the third time. :pac:

Just because it's on youtoob doesn't make it right. Use yer noggin'

This guy's channel is head and shoulders above the rest....having said that I think you can do a lot better than blue electrical boxes and li-ion batteries are completely pointless.

Sir Liamalot

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

You'll get it right the third time. :pac:

Just because it's on youtoob doesn't make it right. Use yer noggin'

This guy's channel is head and shoulders above the rest....having said that I think you can do a lot better than blue electrical boxes and li-ion batteries are completely pointless.

Have to disagree about this bit, LiFePO4 batteries are head and shoulders above Lead Acid in every department.


Shoog

:pac:

Do you walk the walk have any experience using them Shoog?

Could you share what you've found in regards to:

Low-temperature lithium plating preventative charger derating.
Cost per kWh over lifetime in a camper environment?
Memory effect mitigation.
Comparable capacity for cost including BMS and system hardware against an FLA alternative?
Thermal management?
Cell balancing?
Cell temperature monitor with BMS feedback and safety measures.
Protecting internal BMS failure from Inverter Inrush?
Effective usable capacity referenced cycle count at variable temperatures and SOC envelope.
Charger derating and throttling in accordance to battery temperature and state of charge.
Alternator integration with thermal management.
Appropriateness of materials for a volatile battery compartment.
Efficiency deratings associated with heating mats and charger deratings.
A suitable charge profile to keep cells in a 20%-80% SOC envelope as well as recommended hardware to oversee this.
Empirical life expectancy for camper usage?
Low/high voltage disconnect implementation.
Low/high temperature disconnect implementation.
Means to protect charging sources from electronic battery disconnect.
What's the nominal Winter temperature of your battery compartment? How does this effect your charging system using li-ion?


What exactly they can do that an alternative can't?

Buddy Bubs

Pussyhands wrote: »

And where can you learn how to do things? i.e simple things like attaching panelling inside, can you screw straight into metal or how is it attached.

It's a skill and a mindset rather than step by step instructions for a van. A good DIYer will know what fixings go in what materials, how to pack behind something, make up a piece to fit etc...my father is top notch at that kind of stuff, I'm OK.

He is converting a van at the moment, I wouldn't attempt it. He has knowledge of plumbing, electrics, carpentry that I just don't have. He could do with being a bit better at finishing touches but he'll make up anything to solve a problem.

You need that knack of knowing these things. You'll come across multitudes of little problems to solve.

Sir Liamalot

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

:pac:

Do you walk the walk have any experience using them Shoog?

Could you share what you've found in regards to:

Low-temperature lithium plating preventative charger derating.
Cost per kWh over lifetime in a camper environment?
Memory effect mitigation.
Comparable capacity for cost including BMS and system hardware against an FLA alternative?
Thermal management?
Cell balancing?
Cell temperature monitor with BMS feedback and safety measures.
Protecting internal BMS failure from Inverter Inrush?
Effective usable capacity referenced cycle count at variable temperatures and SOC envelope.
Charger derating and throttling in accordance to battery temperature and state of charge.
Alternator integration with thermal management.
Appropriateness of materials for a volatile battery compartment.
Efficiency deratings associated with heating mats and charger deratings.
A suitable charge profile to keep cells in a 20%-80% SOC envelope as well as recommended hardware to oversee this.
Empirical life expectancy for camper usage?
Low/high voltage disconnect implementation.
Low/high temperature disconnect implementation.
Means to protect charging sources from electronic battery disconnect.
What's the nominal Winter temperature of your battery compartment? How does this effect your charging system using li-ion?


What exactly they can do that an alternative can't?

I am using them in a eBike battery. Simple fact is they have a charge cycle life of 4000 cycles which equates to 10 years in normal use. At the end of that they still have about 80% of their capacity left. They have 80% of their capacity available on each charge cycle. They do not sag until they reach 20% of charge, and they do not sag significantly when cold. All issues are addressed by using a BMS and an appropriate charger which can be had for about €50.00 combined.

Shoog

I've yet to find a BMS that works properly. I think you are understating the requirement of these.

Here's some good reading on the subject.

A realistic 2k cycles quoted for LFP is in 25°C at 0.3C or lower.

I run both systems, lead outperforms LiFePO4 at everything except energy density.

OPzS flooded lead give 1500 cycles to 80% cycle depth they're about a fifth of the price.

Van Doozy

How difficult is it to convert a van to camper?

I am certainly no master craftsman but I can use tools and have a reasonably good understanding of DIY, even if I am a little rusty in the actual skill department.

I was a complete novice to van conversion and in the Spring I converted a VW Transporter almost entirely myself, and did what I believe to be a reasonably decent job on it.

What I learned, starting as a complete novice converter:

1. There's a video for everything on youtube. I like the Kiravans ones because they are very clear and don't go in for all that funky music and lifestyle spiff that a lot of the (particularly VW) guys seem to go for.
2. Broken down, each task is not at all as daunting as the entire project and most are not as hard as they seem at first. Take your time and set small goals.
3. Know your limitations and get help if you need it. I got someone to cut out the window opes as I wouldn't trust myself to do it well. I also got an electrician mate to wire the power hook up, and will get a specialist to do the leisure battery etc. when the time comes
4. Start jobs on areas that won't be seen. For example I started the carpeting on the drivers side wheel arch because I knew it would be covered with a fitted unit. But the time you get to the visible bits, you have learned what you need to know.
5. You can buy really tasty, professional looking modules so don't worry if you don't have the skillset to build a fitted sink. I just bought a module and bolted it to the floor. There's no way I would have the skill to make anything as nice myself.
6. Everything takes longer than you expect


It's incredibly rewarding though.

Hooked

Firstly... Check out "Self build Campervans Ireland" on Facebook

Over 10,000 like-minded members.. all converting vans.

The Revenue & VRT...

To legally have the van (vehicle) reclassified, you must adhere to the Revenue definition. See: https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/conversions/conversion.aspx

VRT is charged at 13.3% of the van value (OMSP) plus build costs.... so KEEP RECEIPTS!

Insurance.

Once the SQI signs off on the build (150 quid usually) and you pay VRT (where applicable) to Revenue. Some mini-bus type vehicles, 9 seats or less, can be VRT exempt. You can then tax as a "motor caravan" and insure it. Camper road tax is 102 per year. And Insurance typically 300-400 ish... once you're over 25

There's a MYTH that a camper must be 1.8m inside. It's untrue. But... a low-roof camper is more difficult to insure. More and more insurers are accepting them though.

Gas and Electrics do not legally need a cert! BUT... insurers, some SQI's and common sense would dictate that at least the gas is fitted by a competent person. Some insurers want a clear walkway front to back. others don't. it's a mixed bag...

I'm doing another build next month and have sourced all parts in advance of buying the van. Camper supplies in Ireland are EXPENSIVE!!! And with people building post-covid... lots of items are out of stock!

One path to success is to buy an old Caravan and use the components for your fit-out. Old caravans tend to be reasonable especially in the North.
Ebay is no longer the home of UK bargains since the advent of Brexit - but direct from China can supply a lot of sockets and control items.

Shoog

Kickhams

Is there a backlog in Revenue in Wexford?
I converted a van a couple of years ago and got a reply from Wexford within 3 weeks with VRT liability after sending in the paperwork.
It's been 6 weeks since I sent paperwork for latest conversion and have heard nothing.
Has anyone any idea what the wait time is at the moment or is there a way to contact them?

Hooked

Kickhams wrote: »

Is there a backlog in Revenue in Wexford?
I converted a van a couple of years ago and got a reply from Wexford within 3 weeks with VRT liability after sending in the paperwork.
It's been 6 weeks since I sent paperwork for latest conversion and have heard nothing.
Has anyone any idea what the wait time is at the moment or is there a way to contact them?

6-8 weeks and more!

I waited 6 weeks when I did mine! That was 2 years ago.

Covid, the camper bandwagon and brexit (all vehicles re-regged via Wexford) are all adding to the delays.

Aidan Harney

Much of the discussion around the work is to 'pass certain standards' to get a van classified as a camper.
What if an average family car was to be sold and an average driving van was to be bought and used as the family vehicle.
It would need the 5 seats.
Then build away to high standards, gas safety, sink, frame out for sleeping..
Would there be much benefit to be had from changing the classification to a camper van versus keeping it as a van that can 'be camped in'?
Grma.

Aidan Harney

Aidan Harney wrote: »

Much of the discussion around the work is to 'pass certain standards' to get a van classified as a camper.
What if an average family car was to be sold and an average driving van was to be bought and used as the family vehicle.
It would need the 5 seats.
Then build away to high standards, gas safety, sink, frame out for sleeping..
Would there be much benefit to be had from changing the classification to a camper van versus keeping it as a van that can 'be camped in'?
Grma.

You will find it all but impossible to get such an arrangement insured.


Shoog

Tomal

Hi,

I would be grateful for advice on converting a t5 bus with windows and floor already in place. Need to get an interior sorted keeping the floor and windows. Really looking for a company that can work around whats there already. Does anyone have any ideas who might do this. Thanks for reading. Regards

Aidan Harney

Tomal wrote: »

Hi,

I would be grateful for advice on converting a t5 bus with windows and floor already in place. Need to get an interior sorted keeping the floor and windows. Really looking for a company that can work around whats there already. Does anyone have any ideas who might do this. Thanks for reading. Regards

Years ago I had an old motorhome and wanted fixed seat belts in the back. Went to a place in Louth. Ardee coach trim. They fitted a frame to the chassis and a few seat belts to it. Have a Google of them! May or May not be of any use to you.
Best of luck either way.
A

Aidan Harney

Aidan Harney wrote: »

Years ago I had an old motorhome and wanted fixed seat belts in the back. Went to a place in Louth. Ardee coach trim. They fitted a frame to the chassis and a few seat belts to it. Have a Google of them! May or May not be of any use to you.
Best of luck either way.
A

They had a qualified engineer sign it all off too so I could change the log book from 2 seats (in the cab) to 6 seats officially. The back four seats had just had lap belts which were seemingly legal but I wasn't happy with them for my family, legal /technicalities aside...

Tomal

My apologies. Thanks for advice but I think my message was a bit amiss. What I would like to know is converting a VW Transported bus to a camper van and who could work around the fact windows and floor in already. Sorry for confusion. My bad!

Tomal

Tomal wrote: »

My apologies. Thanks for advice but I think my message was a bit amiss. What I would like to know is converting a VW Transported bus to a camper van and who could work around the fact windows and floor in already. Sorry for confusion. My bad!

The California's seem to be based upon the Caravelle which means that fairly much all of the commercial VW units should have no issues with the windows. They simply build the units infront of the windows blocking them.


Shoog

Padre_Pio

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

OPzS flooded lead give 1500 cycles to 80% cycle depth they're about a fifth of the price.

Can you send a link to these please?

RE getting a SQI to check your camper, you might find that insurers have their own SQI that needs to check the camper.

Revenue don't care about access, gas, wiring etc. They're just looking at furniture.

Tomal

Thanks Shoog.

Can I also ask about buying a camper in NI and bringing it in. Im looking at a Caravelle also but wondering what VRT will be its 1995 1.9L. Its also got an Oil leak so should i be worried.

thanks

Tomal

Also can you put a pop roof on a T4. Totally new to this!

Oil leak can be significant or very minor, sort of points to the fact that maintenance has been let slip. I have repaired three oil leaks on mine and one diesel leak on the injector pump any one could have destroyed the engine/gearbox if not attended to. Its a good idea to have a mechanic check out any oil leak and offer an opinion before pulling the trigger. The breather pipe from the sump to the head is a classic for going brittle and cracking and it will coat the whole front of the engine with thick oil residues - this one is easy to fix and unlikely to do serious damage if oil levels are closely monitored. Some oil leaks can be very expensive to put right.
Pop tops can be bought for about €2K but you have to be very confident to fit yourself. If you have to get it done then expect to be around €4K.
Don't know much about the VRT on NI imports.

I would opt for a Caravelle over a basic panel van any day of the week, likely to be much less hard life and you save on the cost of the window installs, the only thing they don't have is lift up back doors which can be useful for extra awning space. However most people seem to rip out the panels and upgrade the insulation on the Caravelle since its only fiberglass as stock.

Shoog

Tomal

Thanks again Shoog for this great info. very much appreciated. Ive been quoted between 4 to 6k to put in a pop up roof. Also do the insurers cover pop ups.

Tomal

Tomal wrote: »

Thanks again Shoog for this great info. very much appreciated. Ive been quoted between 4 to 6k to put in a pop up roof. Also do the insurers cover pop ups.

A professional install should be no problem with insurance, but ultimately it would be the SQI who would assess whether it was adequately installed. What is however more likely is that most camper insurers will refuse to insure a camper without a pop top or fixed raised roof. They all tend to insist on having a minimum height of 1.8M in the back. There are exceptions to this, but don't bank on it so plan for meeting this "guidance" requirement.

Fibreglass high top roofs work out about half the price, this one is made in Ireland:

https://www.donedeal.ie/campers-for-sale/roof-volkswagen-transporter-high-roof-swb-amp-lwb/27900936


Shoog