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Beginner looking for help

  • 15-05-2021 1:10pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭✭ VeeGanSausageR


    Hi lads, I suppose I'm not so much a beginner as I've been shooting since I was 15 (I'm 19 now) with different friends here and there. But now I want to get into it on my own, and have a few quick questions for ye.

    1) So I want to get into target shooting, and want my first gun to be a lever action rifle, something by Henry Repeaters or similar. I have been shooting .22lr for years and would like a little step up from that, as money is fairly tight and I want my first rifle to last me a few years. I have my heart set on a .22wmr repeater of any kind, but I'm just wondering if that would be considered unrestricted? Looking at some previous posts on this forum it is unclear to me whether or not they are restricted or not.

    2) If they are freely licensable, how hard is the licencing process? My friend got a .22lr rifle at age 16 fairly easily but that was probably 5 years ago now. Let me know how hard it was for ye. Also how long should I expect the process to be at this time (due to pandemic, backlog, etc.)?

    3) Finally, if anyone knows of any dealers selling .22 magnum lever action repeaters down south, please let me know. I'm living in Waterford near Clonmel. The closer, the better. Also looking for ranges for rifle/pistol as the closest one to me got closed and I have no idea where the next closest one would be.

    A lot of questions I know. Thanks in advance for any help/advice.
    Tagged:


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 775 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    Hi lads, I suppose I'm not so much a beginner as I've been shooting since I was 15 (I'm 19 now) with different friends here and there. But now I want to get into it on my own, and have a few quick questions for ye.

    1) So I want to get into target shooting, and want my first gun to be a lever action rifle, something by Henry Repeaters or similar. I have been shooting .22lr for years and would like a little step up from that, as money is fairly tight and I want my first rifle to last me a few years. I have my heart set on a .22wmr repeater of any kind, but I'm just wondering if that would be considered unrestricted? Looking at some previous posts on this forum it is unclear to me whether or not they are restricted or not.

    2) If they are freely licensable, how hard is the licencing process? My friend got a .22lr rifle at age 16 fairly easily but that was probably 5 years ago now. Let me know how hard it was for ye. Also how long should I expect the process to be at this time (due to pandemic, backlog, etc.)?

    3) Finally, if anyone knows of any dealers selling .22 magnum lever action repeaters down south, please let me know. I'm living in Waterford near Clonmel. The closer, the better. Also looking for ranges for rifle/pistol as the closest one to me got closed and I have no idea where the next closest one would be.

    A lot of questions I know. Thanks in advance for any help/advice.

    Firstly, welcome to the wonderful fun of firearms licencing! ;)

    1 - have a gander here, NI dealer with them in stock
    Alternatively in the South you could try Patrick O'Mahony Firearms in Kerry, since he is a savant in that area.

    On restricted vs non-restricted, so long as it is smaller(bullet diameter wise) than .308 and holds 10 rounds or less(easily plugged) then you are non restricted, for lever actions.
    The reason you see a lot of restricted talk about leverguns here is because they are usually chambered in pistol rounds(.357, .44, .45 colt), all of which are larger than .308 in bullet diameter, and are thus restricted.

    You will pay a bit more for .22wmr vs .22lr mind you, so factor ammo costs into your purchase.

    2 - Licencing in Ireland is very stringent, but so long as you have no criminal record and a "good reason"(target shooting is a good one but would require you to be a member of a target shooting range which costs 600+ for the initial year on average, with subsequent years ~300-350).
    You might have a think about putting down pest control and getting a few landowners permission(or parents if they are the farming sort), in case you fancy pursing that avenue.
    How hard it is will entirely depend on the Garda District you are in, since they are each entirely independent of each other in terms of stringency & timescale with firearms licencing.
    Some are fantastic and some would rather the unwashed masses not own anything stronger than a catapult ;)

    Here is a good write up of the licencing situation in more detail:
    http://10point9.ie/how-do-i-apply-for-a-firearms-licence/

    3 - see point 1 for dealers(one in NI and one in Kerry ASFAIK carry them or have done so), for ranges I think the closest to you would likely be:
    http://www.mtsc.ie/
    https://fermoyrifleclub.com/

    All depends on what facilities you want and how far you are willing to travel, but a quick google maps search for "shooting ranges ireland" will put you right.

    Hope that helps and if you have followup questions then fire away!
    Pun very much intended :D

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Welcome to the Shooting Forum.

    Please review the forum rules / charter as seen here -

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055967421

    Firearm applications process and FAQ can be found here-

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67725114&postcount=2

    List of Ranges found here -

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92987005&postcount=1

    List of Firearms Dealers here-

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057601456

    There is a seperate forum for Target Shooting here-

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1013

    Here members can advise as to the suitability of calibres and firearms for various competitions
    ___________________________________

    If you wish to get into target shooting you will be obliged to join an authorised range, thankfully this does not have to be local to you and you can choose anyone that suits your needs and circumstances

    Once you fulfil the requirements as laid out in the Firearms Application Form, then the waiting time from application to receipt of your certificate is dependent on the administration of your local Garda Station and District. Waiting times can be measured in a few weeks or stretched out in multiple of months and longer. Best to give members here an idea of your local District HQ.

    As to your selection of firearm and calibre I will leave that to others. I have shot leaver actions in the past and indeed one of my hunting buddies owns a .22 Mag lever action, I have never seen them as style appropriate to my shooting. Lever actions are used in certain target disciplines (gallery) in both .22LR and centrefire calibres but I'm not sure as to the use of .22WMR. There are plenty of members who are active target shooters and competitors so try posting in the Target forum.
    We also have a for sale section where you may post a wanted ad.

    Welcome again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭ clivej


    Welcome to this mad house.

    In my opinion.........

    First .22 mag is not recommended for target shooting. Nor used in competitions.
    Lever action not the best for target shooting.

    Get yourself a nice .22lr rifle. CZ rifles can be got for small'ish money second hand and will shoot well.
    If your living in Waterford then Harbour House in Athy will be you nearest range.
    Try O'Hallarans in Drangan, county Tipp for good deals on S/H CZ rifles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭ BattleCorp


    Welcome aboard. Good to see young'uns interested in the sport.

    If you are of good character and have kept your nose clean with the Gardai, there usually isn't too much problem getting a gun licence for target shooting. You must be a member of a range even before you apply for a gun licence if your reason for having the gun is target shooting. As has been mentioned already, it's a bit of a lucky dip regarding how long a licence will take to get. I've got licences within 3 or 4 weeks but I'm currently waiting nearly 5 months for a shotgun licence. It's on the way, but not sure when.

    I'd advise against getting the .22wmr lever action if you want to do target shooting. Yes, you can do target shooting with that gun but you can't do many competitions with it. I'm sure it would be great fun for messing around at the range but if the competition bug bites, you'll more than likely need a different gun. But don't take my word for it. My advice is to go to a few ranges, see the types of shooting that they do, the types of competitions they run, the types of guns the members use and then decide if you still want the lever action .22wmr.

    Lever action rifles are popular in Gallery Rifle Shooting but they are the bigger, restricted calibers such as .38spl or .44 mag. Absolutely nothing in legislation stopping you from applying for one of them as your first gun, but they are a good bit more expensive to shoot than a .22lr. I think the ammo for the .22wmr is expensive too.

    Good luck with your choice and keep asking questions here if you are unsure of anything. We talk a lot of sh1te but occasionally some good advice is given out. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    Hi lads, I suppose I'm not so much a beginner as I've been shooting since I was 15 (I'm 19 now) with different friends here and there. But now I want to get into it on my own, and have a few quick questions for ye.

    1) So I want to get into target shooting, and want my first gun to be a lever action rifle, something by Henry Repeaters or similar. I have been shooting .22lr for years and would like a little step up from that, as money is fairly tight and I want my first rifle to last me a few years. I have my heart set on a .22wmr repeater of any kind, but I'm just wondering if that would be considered unrestricted? Looking at some previous posts on this forum it is unclear to me whether or not they are restricted or not.

    2) If they are freely licensable, how hard is the licencing process? My friend got a .22lr rifle at age 16 fairly easily but that was probably 5 years ago now. Let me know how hard it was for ye. Also how long should I expect the process to be at this time (due to pandemic, backlog, etc.)?

    3) Finally, if anyone knows of any dealers selling .22 magnum lever action repeaters down south, please let me know. I'm living in Waterford near Clonmel. The closer, the better. Also looking for ranges for rifle/pistol as the closest one to me got closed and I have no idea where the next closest one would be.

    A lot of questions I know. Thanks in advance for any help/advice.

    Nice to see another Waterford man getting into the sport. In Waterford City there are two gun shops, Shootn' and Fishn' nad Waterford Angling and Outdoor Center. If you're looking for a Henry lever action, WAAOC have one on their website, but it's a bit pricey. http://www.waaoc.com/lever-action/1771-henry-golding-boy.html
    Also the nearest rifle range would be Woodlands range in south Tip.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭ clivej


    Nice to see another Waterford man getting into the sport. In Waterford City there are two gun shops, Shootn' and Fishn' nad Waterford Angling and Outdoor Center. If you're looking for a Henry lever action, WAAOC have one on their website, but it's a bit pricey. http://www.waaoc.com/lever-action/1771-henry-golding-boy.html
    Also the nearest rifle range would be Woodlands range in south Tip.

    I'm not 100% sure but isn't 'Shootn' and fishing' shut?? Owner died I heard.
    And has the Woodlands range re-opened? Did they get their permissions back??


  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ Gorgeousgeorge


    Get yourself a nice cz452 as Clive said. Then when you catch the bug move on up to whatever tickles your fancy. I'm a clay man but do frequent hh ranges and the 22lr seems to be the man for target shooting be it bench rest or the other stuff they shoot. Best of luck!


  • Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭ Wadi14


    I'd be in the BattleCorp camp and say don't buy anything until you visit some ranges and see what competitions are available and what people are using in those comps.
    Ring the ranges around you and head up some weekend and have a look around and ask questions, most shooting will be happy to advise its only the guys that think their good wont give you any secrets lol.

    I have seen way too many guys buys guns for target shooting that weren't suitable for what they where doing.

    If your thinking smallbore shooting at a range your looking at .22lr.


  • Registered Users Posts: 481 ✭✭ Munsterlad102


    clivej wrote: »
    I'm not 100% sure but isn't 'Shootn' and fishing' shut?? Owner died I heard.
    And has the Woodlands range re-opened? Did they get their permissions back??

    I don’t know, it’s been a few months since I was passing it and then it was closed because of Covid. Also I’m not a member of the Woodlands, so I have no idea, I didn’t even know it was closed :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭✭ VeeGanSausageR


    I don’t know, it’s been a few months since I was passing it and then it was closed because of Covid. Also I’m not a member of the Woodlands, so I have no idea, I didn’t even know it was closed :)

    Woodlands is the one I was referring to when I was on about the nearest one to me getting closed. It would have been perfect as it's only about 10 minutes away from me. I messaged them on facebook a while back to see what the situation was but no reply. I will have to try and make further contact because I wouldn't want to miss out on a rifle/pistol/shotgun range that close to where I live. But as far as I'm aware it's still closed. I heard a few different stories as to why but it's all hear-say, so I won't repeat any of it. Thanks.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭✭ VeeGanSausageR


    Thanks all for the advice. I reckon the best course of action will be to visit a few ranges and dealers and discuss my plans to get a better idea of what's best. Thanks again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,758 ✭✭✭ clivej


    Thanks all for the advice. I reckon the best course of action will be to visit a few ranges and dealers and discuss my plans to get a better idea of what's best. Thanks again.

    Also Guns.ie and Harbour Guns the dealers are at Harbour House on Saturdays. And they and the Members will be only to glad to help you out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭ Scalachi


    Can I ad to the people who are saying dont buy a wmr if you have any intention on taking up target shooting, and until you visit a few ranges.

    I would say most target shooting in .22 is limited to .22LR i.e. Prone, Benchrest, Gallery etc, so you really would be limiting yourself to plinking.

    You may also find that some ranges may limit your participation with a tube fed lever action as you 'may' need to angle it skyward to load it and it 'could' end up pointing over a backstop etc...

    Some ranges will have target shooting where the wmr may be slightly more suitable, but in competition, you would probably be against standard CF like .223 etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭ Cerveza


    I was a member of a club there won’t say but it was like a hitler camp. One of the volunteer’s that was running the show there made it a very unpleasant place to be. Be nice to try a range first before committing to a year’s membership.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 424 ✭✭ Cerveza


    If it’s a 22 mag you want to perceive and get this shop has one.

    https://www.bartonsmith.ie/product/henry-.22-mag-lever-action


  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭ JP22


    If you really want to shoot target and in competitions, then forget the .22 Mag.

    Very few if any comps available for .22 Mag, most comps are for .22LR which is more accurate that a .22 Mag.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24 justbehindit


    Just to add there, check to see if any clubs near you offer better prices for a student, that's if you are in college etc. Membership for me is a fraction of the the regular price being a student.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭✭ VeeGanSausageR


    Another question, what would be the next caliber up from .22lr that can be used in competition.

    Also, what's the story with plinking off range (ie, shooting steel plates etc on private land)? Heard it was illegal but that was some years ago. Surely if hunting is allowed then target shooting should be okay with an appropriate backstop and general common sense.

    I'm not all that interested in hunting but I've been told by a few fellas to put it on the licence application form anyway just in case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 775 ✭✭✭ otmmyboy2


    Another question, what would be the next caliber up from .22lr that can be used in competition.

    Entirely depends on the competition. The NASRPC has most of the national comps done in Ireland.
    Most have specific calibers, ie 22lr for benchrest, gallery rifle can be .22lr, 30 carbine, 357/38, 44 magnum, 45 LC, etc.
    All depends on the competition rules.
    Also, what's the story with plinking off range (ie, shooting steel plates etc on private land)? Heard it was illegal but that was some years ago. Surely if hunting is allowed then target shooting should be okay with an appropriate backstop and general common sense.

    By the law illegal in Ireland as target shooting can only be conducted on a licenced range.
    However a lot of folks will zero their firearms on private land with a suitable target and backstop, or on their permissions when hunting.
    I think the main thing is not to set up a shooting range and you are probably alright, but by the legal definition no target shooting outside a range.

    Yes it is moronic, but firearms legislation here often is.
    I'm not all that interested in hunting but I've been told by a few fellas to put it on the licence application form anyway just in case.

    The reason for that is if you put down target shooting on your application, get granted for that reason and then use the firearm for hunting you would be violating the terms of your licence.

    Best bet is to go for target shooting, hunting and other(pest control).
    Get the gamut and then in future(licences run for 3 years a pop) if you want to go and sample another of the above you can.
    Otherwise you would have to re-apply to get the other uses/reasons added.

    Never forget, the end goal is zero firearms of any type.

    S.I. No. 187/1972 - Firearms (Temporary Custody) Order - Firearms seized

    Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 - Firearms banned & grandfathered

    S.I. No. 420/2019 - Magazine ban



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    MOD NOTE

    The previous three (3) posts, based on face value, are speculative . Unless there is bonafide evidence open to the public domain on the subject please refrain from posting 'hear say'.

    Regards

    Cookimonster.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    JP22 wrote: »
    If you really want to shoot target and in competitions, then forget the .22 Mag.

    Very few if any comps available for .22 Mag, most comps are for .22LR which is more accurate that a .22 Mag.

    How is that? I would like to see your evidence on how 'one' caliber is more accurate than 'another'. I would have thought it had more to do with the person shooting it and quality of gun and ammo.

    Perhaps the reason that .22 is used for target over .22wmr is because .22 is over 100 years old. In fact 1884 it was first introduced. So very well established before .22wmr which was 1959.

    .17hmr is only 19 years old and .177 its air rifle similar size caliber is/was also a target caliber and introduced in 1940ish.

    .303 another competition caliber is actually before 1889.

    So do you think it maybe something to how long a caliber has been established that determines what is standard target suitable and not whether anybody can hit the side of a house at 25 yards?


  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭ GooseB


    I don't mean this to come across as rude to anybody so please don't take it that way - but maybe the place for experienced shooters to debate the merits of one round over another would be best served by starting a separate thread on the matter. Not that it doesn't have it's place but I've read enough threads here that get sidetracked and go off on tangents that the original subject matter gets lost. Again, I don't mean to be blunt but we have a young person here looking for help to get into target shooting so maybe the theme of "beginner looking for help" should be borne in mind. Perhaps listing all the competitions that are actually shot using the .22WMR that the OP is interested in getting might be more in line with helping them. I'm not experienced enough to help in that regard, I've only shot with .22LR so I'll leave that to those more knowledgeable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    GooseB wrote: »
    I don't mean this to come across as rude to anybody so please don't take it that way - but maybe the place for experienced shooters to debate the merits of one round over another would be best served by starting a separate thread on the matter. Not that it doesn't have it's place but I've read enough threads here that get sidetracked and go off on tangents that the original subject matter gets lost. Again, I don't mean to be blunt but we have a young person here looking for help to get into target shooting so maybe the theme of "beginner looking for help" should be borne in mind. Perhaps listing all the competitions that are actually shot using the .22WMR that the OP is interested in getting might be more in line with helping them. I'm not experienced enough to help in that regard, I've only shot with .22LR so I'll leave that to those more knowledgeable.

    Very true.

    To the new shooter............There are lots of different calibers for target shooting and all kinds of target shooting. Most possibly popular or established by age of introduction.

    Sadly in Ireland because of draconian laws it is very restrictive in what is available. But not so in other countries.

    A well established caliber is the .22lr here and in many other countries.

    The is a mass of target rifle manufacturers who produce such in .22lr and you can go into many thousands for such a small caliber rifle. This has no bearing on power etc. It is the rifle made to such a spec that it is able to shoot through the same hole repeatedly (down to shooter and ammo).

    You will also find the same in the UK and Europe with .22 and .177 air rifle calibers with rifles costing equally as much. Many clubs and competitions there but I have no idea about here.

    As for other calibers it all depends which country you are in. Not in Ireland as far as I know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭ JP22


    How is that? I would like to see your evidence on how 'one' caliber is more accurate than 'another'. .....

    I’m not saying and never said one calibre is more accurate than another as a blanket statement. That would be ludicrous and out of context with the question asked.

    The OP asked specifically about “a .22 Mag and wanting to get into target shooting” and my answer was specific to his question - target shooting and .22Mag, I never mentioned or alluded to any other calibre.

    To my knowledge most RF target shooting is done with .22LR, if there are comps for .22 Mag, please let us know.

    The .22Mag can be extremely accurate for its intended purpose but it will not cut the mustard for benchrest target shooting at wee little dots.

    It may be accurate enough for other types of target shooting but as I have said, I don’t know of any comps where .22mag is used.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Obviously the first Mod warning above hasn't hit home or left some with the impression that they can continue to ignore it.

    So let me be clear.

    Any more allegations/accusations of illegality against a named person/company/business will be met with infraction and ban. Any arguing with a Mod's decision, on thread, is also grounds for infraction.

    If you have something to say you take it to PM.

    Final warning.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭ Scalachi


    As for other calibers it all depends which country you are in. Not in Ireland as far as I know.


    I think almost all calibres for rifle shooting are available here, I am sure if you go to any of the ranges that cater for rifle shooting (rimfire and centrefire) you will see an array of calibres every weekend now that they are back open :)

    You will certainly see .22LR, but you will also see .17, .22WMR, .222, .243, 6.5x66 .308, 6mm, 303 and just about everything in between in Bolt action,. hinge action, semi auto etc etc.

    As long as you have a valid requirement, getting (almost) any calibre is possible.

    I think the restrictions will mainly be on big game guns or .5 etc as there are not many places to use them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    I was referring to target competition. It was quite obvious.


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