Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

FromADistance

Balluba wrote: »

Yes and I wonder if any 1 bed terrace even if it is in Ranelagh is worth €525,000?

I know well where that house is. I'm fairly sure that I looked at purchasing it back in the day and discounted it due to the condition it once was in. Best of luck to the person selling, it certainly is overpriced but it will be sold for close to asking, of that I'm sure.

L1011

bubblypop wrote: »

Is i though?
I have spent a lot of time there, to me, it's more humid in summer. They have a huge amount of inland water there.
They do get rain, not as much as the West of Ireland obviously, but it's pretty humid.

It is. Humidity is a relative calculation to temperature, remember - the figure is the % of the possible water vapour in air at that temperature

Note the significantly less humid summer

https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Humidity-perc,Helsinki,Finland

https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Humidity-perc,galway,Ireland

People have tried these types of buildings here - its not like its being written off without trying.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

It is. Humidity is a relative calculation to temperature, remember - the figure is the % of the possible water vapour in air at that temperature

Note the significantly less humid summer

https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Humidity-perc,Helsinki,Finland

https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Humidity-perc,galway,Ireland

People have tried these types of buildings here - its not like its being written off without trying.

Those tables don't seem so different?
And the annual humidity is 80 v 83% ?
I don't see a big difference here?

cnocbui

bubblypop wrote: »

Those tables don't seem so different?
And the annual humidity is 80 v 83% ?
I don't see a big difference here?

I wonder if the extreme cold kills off slaters , which seem the main problem in my case? -20-30 we just don't get.

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

I wonder if the extreme cold kills off slaters , which seem the main problem in my case? -20-30 we just don't get.

What is a slater?

cnocbui

bubblypop wrote: »

What is a slater?

Woodlice

cnocbui

cnocbui wrote: »

Woodlice

Horrible little feckers!
But I hate months and butterflies waaaaay more

Bass Reeves

bubblypop wrote: »

But Finland is not significantly different in humidity, in fact, I would say the humidity in Finland is higher in summer then Ireland.
And it is freezing/frozen for months, we don't have that?

I wrote a bit about this earlier in this thread. Wood is totally unsuitable as an external building material. It's down to droplet size. If you ever were in a shower of rain in France, Australia or Florida you would have noticed the difference in rain drop size.

If you travel around England you will see houses that are 500 years old still in use in the UK. We were ruled by them for 800 years so did they never build such houses here. In Nantucket Island I saw a small hut/ house 300+ years old. Why in a country where on certain of our ground timber can grow twice as fast as anywhere in Europe did we not build timber houses with all its insulation properties compared to stone.

Presertives work by preventing water egressing into the timber. Because of droplet size presertives fail at this in the Irish climate. Different wood technologies have failed. I got a hen ark that were of Swedish design that last 50+ years it lasted 10 years in Ireland.

It is not just wood, if you were ever on holidays in many parts of the world years ago you have seen the one coin phone boxes. In a lot of the world these phones could be kept under canopy's in Ireland we used a fully enclosed box. When these phones moved to an electronic type the phone struggled to be maintained by in the system.

Telephone and ESB poles are pressure treated with cresote one of the best presertives in the world yet these poles struggle to reach much with 50 years in Ireland.

Water moves through materials by capillary action. Droplet size in Ireland is much smaller that elsewhere in the world. It's this that allows water to travel through wood. Presertives fail to stop the egress of water into wood because of the nature of the moisture in Ireland

Bass Reeves

cnocbui wrote: »

I wonder if the extreme cold kills off slaters , which seem the main problem in my case? -20-30 we just don't get.

Yes it's a method used in furniture restoration. The piece of furniture is stripped back and put in a special cold room that takes temperature down to -40C I think for 48 hours. This kills the wood live

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Telephone and ESB poles are pressure treated with cresote one of the best presertives in the world yet these poles struggle to reach much with 50 years in Ireland.

The Best Goes to the West !
Low labor qualification or none
Low control of regulations or none
The main problem in Ireland at the time time was low income to build the house not the size of the rain drop
That why many houses are the shelters and has nothing to do with quality in UK were best Irish lads was building houses by UK standards .
The pols not reach much with 50 years ? The only country in Europe were poles are left is probably Ireland.Even in poorest post communism countries cables are under ground !
I am carpenter by trade and spent most time on Irish building sites in 2004-2006.Belive me I see plenty in those years ! I would cut the hands of some guys who was building houses before and after that !

Bass Reeves

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Best Goes to the West !
Low labor qualification or none
Low control of regulations or none
The main problem in Ireland at the time time was low income to build the house not the size of the rain drop
That why many houses are the shelters and has nothing to do with quality in UK were best Irish lads was building houses by UK standards .
The pols not reach much with 50 years ? The only country in Europe were poles are left is probably Ireland.Even in poorest post communism countries cables are under ground !
I am carpenter by trade and spent most time on Irish building sites in 2004-2006.Belive me I see plenty in those years ! I would cut the hands to some guys who was building houses before and after that !

So why have you houses build of wood in parts of the UK mostly in England and in a lot in Europe that are 3-500 years old but not in Ireland. They use wooden structures in Agriculture right in parts of the world but not in Ireland. In Sydney on Elizabeth farm is a wood house build before 1800.

So the English who used wood to build houses and sheds right accross the world did not use wood in Ireland which was covered in the f@@king thing until it was cut down to mainly make charcoal.

Paddy who worked in the construction sectors right accross the world was I capable of using it in Ireland.

It has nothing to do with skillset it has everything to doo with moisture.

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

So why have you houses build of wood in parts of the UK mostly in England and in a lot in Europe that are 3-500 years old but not in Ireland. They use wooden structures in Agriculture right in parts of the world but not in Ireland. In Sydney on Elizabeth farm is a wood house build before 1800.

So the English who used wood to build houses and sheds right accross the world did not use wood in Ireland which was covered in the f@@king thing until it was cut down to mainly make charcoal.

Paddy who worked in the construction sectors right accross the world was I capable of using it in Ireland.

It has nothing to do with skillset it has everything to doo with moisture.

From my point of view why wood in Ireland wasnt used as in UK
The forest owners was British
Powerty
Skills and technologies shortage
If there was built any in Ireland they simply was burned to the ground during English colonisation and build from stone was quicker and more safe.

yagan

Revolution 1917 wrote: »

From my point of view why wood in Ireland wasnt used as in UK
The forest owners was British
Powerty
Skills and technologies shortage
If there was built any in Ireland they simply was burned to the ground during English colonisation and build from stone was quicker and more safe.

That doesn't bare out. While wood was being used in England the Tudor era mansions of Ireland were stone and examples of them are found all over Ireland, some intact like Rothe house in Kilkenny. Behind the modern facades of Kilkenny there's reportedly 55 stone mansions from the 1500s still intact.

Just to clarify that even those aligned to the English crown in Ireland and who would have overseen the exportation of timber used stone for a reason, our climate. Even in the gaelic revival period before the Tudor plantations stone was the favoured material while England continued with timber.

Kilmallock in Co Limerick has some nice examples of that era on the main street too, but all over Ireland there's many stone mansions half a millennium old hiding in plain view.

Ordinances throughout the kingdoms after the great fire of London finally saw the banning of timber construction in cities which is where brick becomes the dominant material.

For more humble homes a course of stone with a wattle and daub walls would have been common. There's still a lot of centuries old examples still standing along coastal areas of Dublin and Meath, the driest parts of Ireland.

This is a tangent to the main discussion of course, but ultimately the materials used is secondary to the mismanagement of land.

mcsean2163

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I wrote a bit about this earlier in this thread. Wood is totally unsuitable as an external building material. It's down to droplet size. If you ever were in a shower of rain in France, Australia or Florida you would have noticed the difference in rain drop size.

If you travel around England you will see houses that are 500 years old still in use in the UK. We were ruled by them for 800 years so did they never build such houses here. In Nantucket Island I saw a small hut/ house 300+ years old. Why in a country where on certain of our ground timber can grow twice as fast as anywhere in Europe did we not build timber houses with all its insulation properties compared to stone.

Presertives work by preventing water egressing into the timber. Because of droplet size presertives fail at this in the Irish climate. Different wood technologies have failed. I got a hen ark that were of Swedish design that last 50+ years it lasted 10 years in Ireland.

It is not just wood, if you were ever on holidays in many parts of the world years ago you have seen the one coin phone boxes. In a lot of the world these phones could be kept under canopy's in Ireland we used a fully enclosed box. When these phones moved to an electronic type the phone struggled to be maintained by in the system.

Telephone and ESB poles are pressure treated with cresote one of the best presertives in the world yet these poles struggle to reach much with 50 years in Ireland.

Water moves through materials by capillary action. Droplet size in Ireland is much smaller that elsewhere in the world. It's this that allows water to travel through wood. Presertives fail to stop the egress of water into wood because of the nature of the moisture in Ireland

Do you have a source. I saw your previous post, tried to follow it up but found nothing....

Bass Reeves

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Do you have a source. I saw your previous post, tried to follow it up but found nothing....

It was a combination of issue,people and things that I came accross that gave me an understanding of it.

It was a radio frequency engineer that explained part of it to me. It was to do with the non availability of different frequency . While over a year they might all be the same higher frequency systems( I think around 20gighz systems) are more prone to interference with smaller sized raindrops which we can encounter in Ireland.

It was a lad that puts presertive in stakes explained that we need to put more preservation material in timber in Ireland to achieve a 15+ years lifespan in Ireland. I was asking him why the Swedish presertives did not work in Ireland but did in the UK. He said the moisture in Ireland has smaller droplets.

If you Google water droplet size I think they can vary from O.001mm to O.05mm in size. Rain varirs from 0.5mm to 4mm in size. My understanding is that Ireland has lower droplet and rain size compared to most other countries

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It was a combination of issue,people and things that I came accross that gave me an understanding of it.

It was a radio frequency engineer that explained part of it to me. It was to do with the non availability of different frequency . While over a year they might all be the same higher frequency systems( I think around 20gighz systems) are more prone to interference with smaller sized raindrops which we can encounter in Ireland.

It was a lad that puts presertive in stakes explained that we need to put more preservation material in timber in Ireland to achieve a 15+ years lifespan in Ireland. I was asking him why the Swedish presertives did not work in Ireland but did in the UK. He said the moisture in Ireland has smaller droplets.

If you Google water droplet size I think they can vary from O.001mm to O.05mm in size. Rain varirs from 0.5mm to 4mm in size. My understanding is that Ireland has lower droplet and rain size compared to most other countries

I am in carpentry since I was 12 years old and I spent 3 years in college which I finished as carpenter/joiner
The biggest mess in building industry I ever see in my life was Ireland
Nobody care about wetness of the wood or building process rules
You have 1 day to build the house and 1 hour to sell it ! That was the main rule on building sites in Ireland in 2004-2006.
I came back to building industry in 2015 and I did not found much changes there.
When you keep dry wood without any preservatives in it under open sky no matter what size of drops falling on it.
The main wood supply in Ireland is import.Nobody know were its coming from could be even Cernobyl in Ukraine nobody know what preservatives in it.
The wood takes as much it can take.When there is water already the wood will take less preservatives because water filled wood already.
In my country the guy with wetness measuring device was checking wood on gate of the factory.Once wood was wet the all load was sent back to supplier
In Ireland if price is right and you getting it fast no matter how much water in wood.
I have 2 Irish mates who bought wood log houses from Lithuania which been delivered and fitted by teams of those factories.One house 2 beds are 4 years old and cost 26K the other 3 beds cost 50 K with curtains on windows included about 3 years old .Lets say to early speak about the quality yet

Timmyr

cnocbui wrote: »

Well I sincerely hope it pops in NZ, but I don't hold out much hope.

I've just bought a house in Auckland so I hope it doesn't

cnocbui

Timmyr wrote: »

I've just bought a house in Auckland so I hope it doesn't

Perfectly understandable.

James 007

Timmyr wrote: »

I've just bought a house in Auckland so I hope it doesn't

Any photos, i'll let you know if it was worth it or not:pac:

Timmyr

James 007 wrote: »

Any photos, i'll let you know if it was worth it or not:pac:

haha it's not finished yet, hope to be in it by the end of the year

Timmyr

Timmyr wrote: »

I've just bought a house in Auckland so I hope it doesn't

But sure why would it matter?
You bought a house, presumably to live in it, doesn't matter what happens to the market if you are happy to live in the House

Timmyr

bubblypop wrote: »

But sure why would it matter?
You bought a house, presumably to live in it, doesn't matter what happens to the market if you are happy to live in the House

Live in it for 3-5 years then rent it out and buy another, at least thats the plan

PropQueries

Interesting article in the Irish Times today with some FF members of Dublin City Council opposing the re-zoning of a 106 acre site in Finglas from light industrial to residential.

This along with the Office of the Planning Regulator (the Housing Minister is also FF) recently telling DLR county council that they can't build more than c. 2,200 residential units per year out to 2028, where exactly does FF believe all these new built homes we apparently require to be built to meet supply over the next ten years be built?

It's also interesting that one FF councilor said:

"I'm not opposed to housing. I want to see housing developed but I just don’t see what the rush is".

Link to Finglas re-zoning article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/finglas-rezoning-proposal-in-doubt-over-council-opposition-1.4592437

Link to DLR re-zoning article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/d%C3%BAn-laoghaire-rathdown-told-to-scale-back-housing-plans-1.4546039

Amadan Dubh

PropQueries wrote: »

Interesting article in the Irish Times today with some FF members of Dublin City Council opposing the re-zoning of a 106 acre site in Finglas from light industrial to residential.

This along with the Office of the Planning Regulator (the Housing Minister is also FF) recently telling DLR county council that they can't build more than c. 2,200 residential units per year out to 2028, where exactly does FF believe all these new built homes we apparently require to be built to meet supply over the next ten years be built?

It's also interesting that one FF councilor said:

"I'm not opposed to housing. I want to see housing developed but I just don’t see what the rush is".

Link to Finglas re-zoning article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/finglas-rezoning-proposal-in-doubt-over-council-opposition-1.4592437

Link to DLR re-zoning article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/d%C3%BAn-laoghaire-rathdown-told-to-scale-back-housing-plans-1.4546039

I would be shocked if there weren't connections and vested interests puppeteering the objecting councillors.

Villa05

PropQueries wrote:

Interesting article in the Irish Times today with some FF members of Dublin City Council opposing the re-zoning of a 106 acre site in Finglas from light industrial to residential.

Would it be fair to say that SF oppose housing developments mainly on a value for money for the taxpayer basis and mot enough social/affordable or affordable that is too expensive while other parties oppose on the basis of local nimbyism.

Not trying to promote one over another just trying to establish facts as on the late debate last Thursday Ff continually accused SF of opposing many developments

PropQueries

Villa05 wrote: »

Would it be fair to say that SF oppose housing developments mainly on a value for money for the taxpayer basis and mot enough social/affordable or affordable that is too expensive while other parties oppose on the basis of local nimbyism.

Not trying to promote one over another just trying to establish facts as on the late debate last Thursday Ff continually accused SF of opposing many developments

Well, at least we now know one of the reasons for some FF councillors objecting. It's because some don't see what the "rush" is. As the FF councillor, Keith Connolly, said:

"I just don’t see what the rush is."

Amadan Dubh

More shocking, horrific news on the activities of institutionals in the property sector. This deserves outrage and hysteria in the media. Vampire squids at GS evading tax with some assistance from Dublin based law and accounting teams.

https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/goldman-sachs-irish-property-funds-paid-no-tax-on-390m-income-1.4592273?mode=amp

Goldman Sachs Irish property funds paid no tax on €390m income

Three so-called “vulture funds” affiliated with Goldman Sachs collected €390 million from their portfolios of Irish distressed property loans in 2019 but incurred no corporation tax charges.

Beltany Property Finance, Ennis Property Finance and Liffey Acquisitions, which owns Kenmare Property Finance, owned loans valued on their books at a combined total of €507.6 million at the end of the year, according to accounts filed in recent days for the three funds. The headline, or gross, value of those loans was listed at more than €766 million.

Despite the market value of many of the underlying properties having increased significantly since the first purchases were made in 2014, as the market boomed, all three funds record huge shareholder deficits on the balance sheet, as a result of the complex financing arrangements and loan notes.

Balluba

Bank of Ireland have announced that their threshold for negative interest rates on savings will be reduced to €1 million with an annual interest rate of 0.65%. In that event a saver with 1 million on deposit will owe €6,500 to BOI annual interest. Negative interest rates are now certain it is just a matter of how low the banks will set the threshold. All of us will be affected.
Surely this will make property even a more attractive investment??

Patsy167

Would be very interesting to see what the equivalent numbers for Ireland would look like - "Renting now cheaper than buying a home"


"It is cheaper to rent a property than it is to buy a home for the first time in more than six years, says Hamptons.

Research by the estate agency suggests that before the pandemic began in March 2020, people buying with a 10% deposit would have been better off than renters by £102 a month.

But last month, it found the average private sector tenant was better off, spending £71 a month less in rent.

There are now only four areas in the UK where it is cheaper to buy than rent."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57464534

PropQueries

Balluba wrote: »

Bank of Ireland have announced that their threshold for negative interest rates on savings will be reduced to €1 million with an annual interest rate of 0.65%. In that event a saver with 1 million on deposit will owe €6,500 to BOI annual interest. Negative interest rates are now certain it is just a matter of how low the banks will set the threshold. All of us will be affected.
Surely this will make property even a more attractive investment??

I think that would depend on a persons viewpoint on where they believe house prices are heading. If they can increase by 10% in a year, they can also fall by 10% in a year. If rents can double, they can also make similar movements in the opposite direction.

At least the cash in the bank won't make such a capital loss or fluctuate up or down at such levels.