Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Cal4567

John1648 wrote: »

Well, I have looked at many markets. Dublin offers the highest yield for rentals, of 7% net (9% gross), which is unheard of everywhere else.

Oh, the same is in Maldives e.g., in Male, but is too far away to manage.

You sound as if you are from abroad. Apologies if I have you wrong.

Guys, and girls, if John is someone outside the country looking in, and Dublin offers the best yield than anywhere else, then there's our issue. John, your hopeful yield is our living problem.

No idea if you are abroad, but generally one of the early interventions the Minister can do is clip the heels of foreign investment vehicles whether they are corporate or individual.

As someone else said, no easy solutions. I fear we will be discussing a version of the same problem in a decade.

Wanderer78

Cal4567 wrote:

No idea if you are abroad, but generally one of the early interventions the Minister can do is clip the heels of foreign investment vehicles whether they are corporate or individual.

Unfortunately we live in the era of relative free movement of capital, this wouldn't be an easy one to implement

John1648

Cal4567 wrote: »

You sound as if you are from abroad. Apologies if I have you wrong.

Guys, and girls, if John is someone outside the country looking in, and Dublin offers the best yield than anywhere else, then there's our issue. John, your hopeful yield is our living problem.

No idea if you are abroad, but generally one of the early interventions the Minister can do is clip the heels of foreign investment vehicles whether they are corporate or individual.

As someone else said, no easy solutions. I fear we will be discussing a version of the same problem in a decade.

Yes, I am abroad.

However, I am a very small investor. I have been saving cash for 15 years for retirement.

Now that inflation is coming, I am looking at purchasing a small apartment, to shield myself from loss of USD and EUR purchasing power, inflation, further prices increases, and make a small profit.

I was in renters shoes for many years, so I fully get the frustration.

Does it make sense to buy in Citywest? Does 1400 eur rent for 1 bedroom seem credible?

I would genuinly appreciate your advice. I have no exploitative intentions.

Patsy167

Thought this was a funny take that others might appreciate - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-xEOvfNTRc&vl=en

Mic 1972

I see sheep wrote: »

I wouldn't buy an apartment in Ireland or GB tbh, most I've lived in are not well built and require constant fixing, even very expensive ones.

That's true unfortunately.
I bought an apartment in italy more than 20 years ago that has been rented all the time and the only maintenance i had to pay for was for a new fridge and a new washing machine

Pussyhands

I see sheep wrote: »

I wouldn't buy an apartment in Ireland or GB tbh, most I've lived in are not well built and require constant fixing, even very expensive ones.

It'll be 2nd hand, I can't afford a house.

Villa05

Timing belt wrote:

Hindsight is great but is after the event.... I bet in 5-10 years time people will be saying how wrong QE was that it introduced massive risks and caused asset prices to be overvalued.

I don't think we need hindsight to tell us that this won't end well

Villa05 wrote:

The Troika objective was to create a sustainable rental market so that people did not feel they had to buy to move on with their lives. In other words affordable fit for purpose alternatives to buying. The IMF and United nations have been highly critical of our policies on housing

John1648 wrote:

Now that inflation is coming, I am looking at purchasing a small apartment, to shield myself from loss of USD and EUR purchasing power, inflation, further prices increases, and make a small profit.

John, I don't mean to be disrespectful in quoting your post. Your thoughts are funtion of the system.

It's the system that will bring us down not the actions of individual investors.

I'm sure your actions will be blamed on any collapse by the politicians just like they did after 08 when the Taoiseach' stated in Davos that we all went mad to an audience that for the most part we're the architects of the last collapse.

Mad_maxx

John1648 wrote: »

Well, I have looked at many markets. Dublin offers the highest yield for rentals, of 7% net (9% gross), which is unheard of everywhere else.

Oh, the same is in Maldives e.g., in Male, but is too far away to manage.

It needs to have a way higher yield as evicting tenants who stop paying takes two years and you won't be compensated if they damage the place

mcsean2163

John1648 wrote: »

Yes, I am abroad.

However, I am a very small investor. I have been saving cash for 15 years for retirement.

Now that inflation is coming, I am looking at purchasing a small apartment, to shield myself from loss of USD and EUR purchasing power, inflation, further prices increases, and make a small profit.

I was in renters shoes for many years, so I fully get the frustration.

Does it make sense to buy in Citywest? Does 1400 eur rent for 1 bedroom seem credible?

I would genuinly appreciate your advice. I have no exploitative intentions.

Six years ago we rented a three bed in Dublin 8 for €1,300 to our neighbors. The rent is over double that now. If you can get a 20 years deal with the council and the council doesn't go bust you'll probably be fine...

MacronvFrugals

Well this adds a whole new bizarre dynamic to the scandal of leasing...


Councillors ‘not informed’ of council’s €25m south Dublin housing deal

Dún Laoghaire Rathdown councillors have said they had no knowledge of the council’s plan to lease an entire estate in Cabinteely, south Dublin, for social housing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/councillors-not-informed-of-council-s-25m-south-dublin-housing-deal-1.4566808?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fcouncillors-not-informed-of-council-s-25m-south-dublin-housing-deal-1.4566808

Eclectic Econometrics

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Unfortunately we live in the era of relative free movement of capital, this wouldn't be an easy one to implement

Realistically, how difficult would this be to implement? If it were a centralised government agency making sure that the buyers of Irish property were full time resident in Ireland, not just passport holders, how large would that organisation be in terms of manpower?

This isn't a pop at you or John (for clarity), who is just taking care of his future, this is a genuine question.

Wanderer78

Eclectic Econometrics wrote: »

Realistically, how difficult would this be to implement? If it were a centralised government agency making sure that the buyers of Irish property were full time resident in Ireland, not just passport holders, how large would that organisation be in terms of manpower?

This isn't a pop at you or John (for clarity), who is just taking care of his future, this is a genuine question.

altering the free movement of capital is very complicated, particularly in the eu, as its one of the main core values of the union, free movement of capital also has benefits for us, not easy to resolve

Browney7

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Well this adds a whole new bizarre dynamic to the scandal of leasing...


Councillors ‘not informed’ of council’s €25m south Dublin housing deal





https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/councillors-not-informed-of-council-s-25m-south-dublin-housing-deal-1.4566808?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fsocial-affairs%2Fcouncillors-not-informed-of-council-s-25m-south-dublin-housing-deal-1.4566808

Whilst it looks a headline that demonstrates a level of the councillors having their eye off the ball, presumably the housing department just have a budget and the head of that department allocates funding as it sees fit. Presumably Owen Keegan as Chief exec is ultimately responsible for the decision and has to stand over it from a value for money perspective

yagan

Wanderer78 wrote: »

altering the free movement of capital is very complicated, particularly in the eu, as its one of the main core values of the union, free movement of capital also has benefits for us, not easy to resolve

There may be free capital movement but each member applies its own housing rates and charges, except Ireland seems to prefer a hands off approach. Letting properties sit idle for years is an asset speculators dream.

JimmyVik

John1648 wrote: »

Well, I have looked at many markets. Dublin offers the highest yield for rentals, of 7% net (9% gross), which is unheard of everywhere else.

Oh, the same is in Maldives e.g., in Male, but is too far away to manage.

That yield only applies if the tenant feels like paying the rent.
Paying rent is optional in Ireland.
When you contact whatever company is going to manage this property for you, since you are abroad, ask them will they pay the rent if the tenant they supply decides not to pay it.
Their answer will tell you everything you need to know.

awec

Browney7 wrote: »

Whilst it looks a headline that demonstrates a level of the councillors having their eye off the ball, presumably the housing department just have a budget and the head of that department allocates funding as it sees fit. Presumably Owen Keegan as Chief exec is ultimately responsible for the decision and has to stand over it from a value for money perspective

Owen Keegan is DCC, the article is DLR, but I'd say that's exactly what it is. The councillors are engaging in some self preservation.

Councillor is supposed to be a part time role, like all level of politics you have the elected individuals setting direction and then the civil servants carrying it out.

Wanderer78

yagan wrote: »

There may be free capital movement but each member applies its own housing rates and charges, except Ireland seems to prefer a hands off approach. Letting properties sit idle for years is an asset speculators dream.

absolutely agree, we ve completely 'bought' into the fire sector model of running our economy, and its starting to collapse

DataDude

John1648 wrote: »

Yes, I am abroad.

However, I am a very small investor. I have been saving cash for 15 years for retirement.

Now that inflation is coming, I am looking at purchasing a small apartment, to shield myself from loss of USD and EUR purchasing power, inflation, further prices increases, and make a small profit.

I was in renters shoes for many years, so I fully get the frustration.

Does it make sense to buy in Citywest? Does 1400 eur rent for 1 bedroom seem credible?

I would genuinly appreciate your advice. I have no exploitative intentions.

JimmyVik wrote: »

That yield only applies if the tenant feels like paying the rent.
Paying rent is optional in Ireland.
When you contact whatever company is going to manage this property for you, since you are abroad, ask them will they pay the rent if the tenant they supply decides not to pay it.
Their answer will tell you everything you need to know.

I would heed this advice. I may be misinterpreting, but I have taken from your comments that you do not necessarily have a vast pension fund of which this one apartment would form a small part of it.

If that is the case, and this assumed rental income is going to be a key factor in your ability to retire comfortably, I would run a mile. You won't have enough diversification and the risk of a rogue tenant is too much for you to carry. You would be far better advised investing in an Irish REIT to be more diversified...if this property is going to be one of many income streams and two years of rental arrears plus significant legal costs/repair bills etc. does not worry you - then you could consider it.

Browney7

awec wrote: »

Owen Keegan is DCC, the article is DLR, but I'd say that's exactly what it is. The councillors are engaging in some self preservation.

Councillor is supposed to be a part time role, like all level of politics you have the elected individuals setting direction and then the civil servants carrying it out.

Yes you are of course correct - Owen Keegan is DCC and DLR would have a separate executive management team.

DataDude

Any Delgany/Greystones locals aware of any developments in the area that would cause 3 of these house to come to market in such quick succession, and each at a lower price than the last. First was 795 last December, dropped to 765 when neighbor put theirs up and now another gone up at 740. I know there was some plans for the N11 to go through Delgany but didn't think it would affect this location?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-glendale-convent-road-delgany-co-wicklow-a63-w635/4501810

Seems suspicious (or else a big coincidence). When the first one went up they proudly declared they were the first to ever sell a house in the estate of 9 because it's such a nice area

Villa05

Gradius wrote:

Productivity and creativity are the bread and butter of every economy. They are the golden eggs.

The commodification of housing has been the equivalent of slaying the golden goose.

Your full post should be a sticky at the start of the thread

Followed by the reasoning why pro market posters believe unaffordability is acceptable within the market

awec

DataDude wrote: »

Any Delgany/Greystones locals aware of any developments in the area that would cause 3 of these house to come to market in such quick succession, and each at a lower price than the last. First was 795 last December, dropped to 765 when neighbor put there's up and now another gone up at 740. I know there was some plans for the N11 to go through Delgany but didn't think it would affect this location?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/8-glendale-convent-road-delgany-co-wicklow-a63-w635/4501810

Seems suspicious (or else a big coincidence). When the first one went up they proudly declared they were the first to ever sell a house in the estate of 9 because it's such a nice area

There's a big development planned where the convent is, Delgany residents are currently undertaking a judicial review I think.

The potential N11 route through Delgany is no longer on the table.

Those are lovely houses, I think I linked one for you before.

Villa05

MacronvFrugals wrote:

Well this adds a whole new bizarre dynamic to the scandal of leasing...

It's not that long ago that we were aghast at the poor value within public private partnerships in the delivery of infrastructure such as roads etc

At least we had an asset at the end of it
Now we have taken it to a whole new level. Poor value plus no asset at the end

Our governance is an experiment in reverse evolution

Cal4567

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Well this adds a whole new bizarre dynamic to the scandal of leasing...


Councillors ‘not informed’ of council’s €25m south Dublin housing deal

Chairwoman of the council’s housing policy committee, Labour councillor Martha Fanning, said the committee was not typically informed when the council decided to enter into long-term housing leases. “We tend to find out when it’s in the newspapers.”

So, they find out just like us then. Never mind the dysfunction of the housing market, yet another example of Irish local government in action. When did Waterford Whispers start writing for the Irish Times?

DataDude

awec wrote: »

There's a big development planned where the convent is, Delgany residents are currently undertaking a judicial review I think.

The potential N11 route through Delgany is no longer on the table.

Those are lovely houses, I think I linked one for you before.

Yeah you had linked in before. The one you linked dropped it's price from 795 to 760 and sold a couple weeks back but there's two more up now. They seem like smashing value.

Much appreciated. I see stories online about big development on the Convent site now. Would have thought it was far enough from Glendale to not be a major issue, but maybe the current residents disagree!

Ozark707

Cal4567 wrote: »

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

Well this adds a whole new bizarre dynamic to the scandal of leasing...


Councillors ‘not informed’ of council’s €25m south Dublin housing deal

Chairwoman of the council’s housing policy committee, Labour councillor Martha Fanning, said the committee was not typically informed when the council decided to enter into long-term housing leases. “We tend to find out when it’s in the newspapers.”

So, they find out just like us then. Never mind the dysfunction of the housing market, yet another example of Irish local government in action. When did Waterford Whispers start writing for the Irish Times?

I suspect many of the councillors might not like the answer as to why councils need to take over whole estates, so it is better that they can plead ignorance when it is brought to their attention.

It couldn't be that hard to ask the council as to their projections for housing needs are. There must be some forecasting being done.

awec

DataDude wrote: »

Yeah you had linked in before. The one you linked dropped it's price from 795 to 760 and sold a couple weeks back but there's two more up now. They seem like smashing value.

Much appreciated. I see stories online about big development on the Convent site now. Would have thought it was far enough from Glendale to not be a major issue, but maybe the current residents disagree!

I'd have said they're far enough away too, Glendale is kind of tucked out of the way, it's not on a through road.

I'd be really interested in them if I was shopping with that budget.

Marius34

Villa05 wrote: »

Your full post should be a sticky at the start of the thread

Followed by the reasoning why pro market posters believe unaffordability is acceptable within the market

I would be surprised if there are anti market posters.
Unaffordability, I'm not sure if anyone can even tell what that really mean in fundamental terms for Property Market. For some it might be 5 bed Villa at the coast, for another just any shelter. You will always find something that you can't afford.

JimmyVik

DataDude wrote: »

Yeah you had linked in before. The one you linked dropped it's price from 795 to 760 and sold a couple weeks back but there's two more up now. They seem like smashing value.

Much appreciated. I see stories online about big development on the Convent site now. Would have thought it was far enough from Glendale to not be a major issue, but maybe the current residents disagree!

Could be more of a "who" than a "what" as the reason people are moving

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

altering the free movement of capital is very complicated, particularly in the eu, as its one of the main core values of the union, free movement of capital also has benefits for us, not easy to resolve

we are a very open economy and a key part of our investment sales pitch is friendly policies towards capital, this is the other side of that double edged sword

difficult to resolve indeed , rather than disallow big money from buying property , might it be possible to tax their income higher ? , yields are so high that i doubt they all make for the exit ?