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Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*



  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭danfrancisco83

    I think I've answered my own question there, the plan was probably to live there, but maybe had to move abroad and decided to rent it out, and got shafted.

  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭ax530

    Shocked to hear about this scheme on radio today low income workers earning 104k a year can get assistance to buy 3 bed house Coolough at a reduced rate of 470k.

    It didn't say how many of these houses are for sale. 10s 100s ? But sounded like big demand. Is 104k classified as low income all over county or just Dublin?

    This level of gov assistance can't be sustainable is the idea anyone less than 100k would need HAP or Council house

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,563 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves

    104k will just as likely be a working couple in there thirties, with children that are renting maybe even with HAP at present. Or young couple starting out. 100k is not astronomical wages for a couple. Not many professionals earning 100k will be buying these. Unlikely any single person in the 100k+ bracket will be buying these.

    Some here are forgetting that these earning limits are targeted at couples in fairly ordinary jobs who cannot afford a house otherwise.

    In Limerick at present the larger MNC are paying a basic of 50k+ to shift workers there total earning are in the region of 80k+. Daughter is a teacher teaching about 6-7 years next September her earning will be 55k ish.

    People give out about the price of housing. A friend of my better half was home from Manchester. She is separated about 8-10 with one child. They sold there orginal house when they separated and it made 500k, it recently sold again for a nearly a million sterling. The house she bought a small 3 bed semi in a decent area cost nearly 300k, sub 900 sqft with the obligatory box room no Dermot Bannon extension it is worth in the region of 500k now.

    Manchester is the UK's third city probably double the size of Dublin but not a capital city. Ireland has the fastest growing population of the wealthiest EU countries, the UK population was rising before Brexit and probably still is. They have much the same issues as Ireland.

    As DavidMcWilliams said about housing 5 years ago in a podcast

    "never let the perfect get in the way of the good"

    Slava Ukrainii

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,613 ✭✭✭Villa05

    Bass, these are 1,2 and 3 bed units built on state owned land for council, affordable rent/purchase. There is absolutely no justification for the price given the subsidies for construction and further subsidies for purchaser. The definition of afordable housing by FFG up to 15% less than "market" value. Thats 1 years house price appreciation the way we are going

    50% of the working population work outside the mnc and public sector. When the mnc sector is removed from the Irish economy, we are amongst the least productive in the EU, despite working longer hours. A huge contributer to this is high property prices and rents.

  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭SpoonyMcSpoon

    The economic growth depends on Ireland being competitive and if €100k is a low household income for Ireland then it is only a matter of time before something somewhere breaks. Effectively the government has mandated that €100k is a low household income. Businesses will be undoubtedly wary of where the country is headed as the housing market is getting less affordable which means that they will need to keep increasing salaries. It’s so shortsighted by the government to implement policies that mainly seek to push up house prices with housing supply and affordability as well as economic growth being seen as collateral to successfully prop up the housing market.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010

    When you have a captain earning €280k telling us that the cost of living is hitting them so hard, they need to be paid €350k, and there is no public outcry, then you just have to accept that €100k isn’t what it used to be.

  • Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭SpoonyMcSpoon

    Absolutely; and I think it is actually worse for families that work and rent as 3 beds to rent, from a high level scan of Daft, cost at least €2500 per month and that seems to be Tallaght/Finglas etc so probably €3k pm and more to get something in a bit of a nicer area for the family.

    This would take up around 40% of a €150k annual salary. While we think owning a house is for the wealthy it is actually renting which requires you to be earning good money!

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_

    Anyone know the reason why an EA would do this - raise the asking price after the bidding has gone way beyond the new asking price that they set?

    Same EA here in all these where you can see all the online bidding that took place close to the original lower asking price and then during the bidding the EA revises the asking price upwards - somewhere a little closer to where the bidding ended up?

    Is it to make it look like they never undervalued the properties to begin with?

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,563 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves

    And posters were cribbing about the prices in Coolough

    Slava Ukrainii

  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Murt2024

    100K is nothing in Dublin really, anyone with a college degree in a decent area or people in trades would be earning a lot more than 100K as a couple especially in Dublin by the time they hit the average age of buying now which is 35.

    I have friends who after the leaving cert just went labouring or worked in minimun wage factories and still do this day. Instead of trying to upskill in a trade which I find crazy they just stayed in those roles. That's down to them and you can't blame the government or for people failing to upskill. Another one failed college after a year and is just doing bar work in hotels for the last 15 years. People need to stop giving out as they landed themselves in these situations as too lazy to upskill.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,613 ✭✭✭Villa05

    An independent look at the effects of UK's Help to buy scheme over a decade similar to Ireland's Shared ownership which is now impacting the market

    help-to-buy scheme “inflates prices by more than the subsidy value” and does “not provide good value for money, which would be better spent on increasing housing supply....

    Worse still, they found that the policy actively stimulated construction “in the wrong areas”.......

    the government’s own evaluation of the policy showed that only two in five help to buyers actually needed the programme.......

    Helping out the comfortably-off and lining the pockets of developers may have been a calculated part of the Tory policy. But help to buy has also had a major unintended consequence: leaving many buyers trapped in negative equity.....

    Hamptons last year found that people who bought a new-build home were twice as likely to sell it on at a loss than second-hand homeowners. This is a consequence of help to buy having created massively inflated premiums on new-build homes – which quickly evaporated once the home had been lived in.....

    Fairburn, the then boss of Persimmon, was notoriously awarded a bonus of £82m, one of the largest such bounties in British corporate history, and was forced out as a result. Defending his payout, Fairburn was frank about the cause of the vast sum: “It’s supply and demand, and the demand has been created through the help-to-buy scheme.”

  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭hometruths

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010

    They value the property for the vendor, the asking price is not a valuation, it is a guide price only for bidding purposes.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_

    OK, so why do they need to revise this bidding guide price when the bidding based on the original bidding guide price, has already exceeded the revised bidding guide price.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010

    I’m afraid I can’t explain it as it seems all the bids occurred during a very short period on the one I looked at. I really don’t see a benefit, and your theory relating to advertising a low guide price, then correcting it hardly makes sense as there is no benefit for either the vendor or EA, what difference does it make to them. Perhaps it indicates that the EA wants to alter asking price to reflect what the bids have reached, how that would help their client, the vendor is unclear.

  • Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭Cristianc

    Have you seen this price inrease for apartments as well?

    I recently saw in Dundrum an apartment was sold for 493k a few months ago but last year in November it was also sold, 410k this time.

    But it's the only example I know of.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭Roberto_gas

    Friend bought a 3bhk for 415 k two months back..another similar listed for 390k and sold for 455k…south Dublin !

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭RichardAnd

    Remember when we had talk of a "softening housing market" in 2022? The quaint old days….

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,551 ✭✭✭✭markodaly

    I posted links previously that describe the economic reasoning and theory behind why EAs under quote on the property that is trying to elicit a herd mentality when purchasing a property.

    But here you are still doing the good ol "Whatabout" tactic, in ignorance of everything that has been discussed before.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_

    no no…we had many months of price drops, and then the central bank changed the borrowing limits…

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010

    You should have no problem answering the two questions.

    My point to you, put as simply as I can put it, is that asking price is just an arbitrary number used to advertise the property, nothing more, buyers can bid it, under it, or over it if they want, it has little standing in the process.

    Your ignorance, is that despite everything which points to the contrary, you think the EA should know in advance what a buyer will bid, that they have some obligation to help that buyer with a fairer price, and for some unfathomable reason, you can’t grasp that having lots of bidders is exactly what vendors want when selling their property.

    Perhaps your Dad’s malign attitude towards EAs has made it impossible for you to understand the business of property selling beyond your own narrow perspective which is limited only to the buyer, and that for the person on the other side of the transaction, the one paying for the EAs services, a herd mentality amongst buyers is preferable.

    The hypocrisy of your viewpoint is, if you were to sell your home today, you would want multiple buyers bidding against each other. And if you engage an EA to help you sell your home, they are paid/working to benefit you.

    Post edited by Dav010 on

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭DataDude

    A lot has changed economically also. If you scroll back to 2022 even on this page you’ll see talk of mass closures of business, households unable to heat their homes over the winter, interest rates hitting double digits, tech sector crash destroying the Irish corporation tax base, SF government instability.

    Summer 2024 - inflation largely under control, energy prices falling, interest rates have peaked, record employment levels, wages increasing quickly (now surpassing price growth since COVID), tech stock indexes breaking new record highs, corporation tax take surging to new highs, FF/FG likely remaining another 5 years.

    The economic picture is a lot lot better than most expected in 2022.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭RichardAnd

    It's amusing and sad that the idea that the Help-to-Buy scheme was a disaster is being suggested. It did precisely what it was intended to do; inflate the housing market, make billions for investors and generate GDP. To put it another way, it was par for the course in any Western globalist state.

    Given that this was written for the Guardian, it will be interesting to see how they explain the very same things that will happen if and when Labor are at the helm over in the UK.

    Post edited by RichardAnd on

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,564 ✭✭✭extra-ordinary_

    I’m afraid I can’t explain it as it seems all the bids occurred during a very short period on the one I looked at.

    Yes, it's the same for them all, that's the way the market is currently, frantic bidding.

  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,982 ✭✭✭hometruths

    What do you know, our own equivalent scheme is lifting the price caps where houses were cheaper, in order "to help more people":

    This extension of the First Home Scheme follows the latest of the scheme’s scheduled twice-yearly reviews of the price ceilings that apply to qualifying homes.

    The review will result in increases of €25,000 in the ceilings applying to 14 of Ireland’s 31 local authority areas.

    The ceiling in Limerick will increase by €25,000 to €425,000 for houses. The ceiling for apartments in Limerick remains at €450,000.

    The other 13 counties’ ceilings are increasing by €25,000 to €350,000 for houses and apartments.

  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭theboringfox

    There was 6 months of index dropping from end of 2022 until around June 2023. Impact of rate rises scares buyers. Very hard to bid when not sure if mortgage rate might be couple percent higher by close. Market took off again once it became clear by autumn 23 that rates had peaked. I agree central bank rule change added to price growth. The move from 80% to 90% ltv on second time buyers significant too. They were quite hamstrung at 80% though

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,595 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump

    So in other words, if your daughter with her 6-7 years experience manages to shack up with another random teacher and tie herself to him (or her - it's the modern age) long term via a jointly mortgaged property - she can live the dream of putting down roots in state subsidised housing built on public land in Coolock. What a time to be alive.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭DataDude

    I think this view is backed up by the fact that similar trends were seen across the worlds. Drops in 2021/2022 on rising rates. Quickly re-accelerating and re-peaking now. The moves were more pronounced than ours in countries with looser lending limits (and therefore more sensitive to interest rates)

    This is an unusual take. The vast majority of people buy as a couple. The vast majority of women work these days work. You’re appear to be painting this as a bad thing?

    In how many first world cities could two below median income workers buy a brand new 3bed house 6kms from the city centre?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,595 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump

    Bit of a leap there to implying that I think it's a bad thing women work. Talk about a strawman.

    Simply highlighting that the person in question - a qualified teacher, presumably about 30 years old - would be considered as qualifying as being in need of state subsidies even if their income almost doubled.

    The irony is that there are plenty of boomer teachers on here with multiple properties with delusional "advice" to younger teachers that all they need to do is cut down on the avocados to buy their first one.