Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407576#Comment_119407576

Sadly not, only started tracking last September.

WhiteWalls

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119367894#Comment_119367894

Do you mean that your neighbour paid double for the same house at the same time you bought yours?

I find that hard to believe if this is the case..

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119409805#Comment_119409805

We bought our house about 4 years later. I would have thought that's pretty obvious in the context of timing the market..

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395703#Comment_119395703

James Larkin did emigrate. He was born and raised in Liverpool and spoke with a scouse accent. Ditto Connolly and an Edinburgh accent (something only one 1916 documentary I've ever seen accurately represents)

MacronvFrugals

How innovative of Glenveigh!

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/smaller-back-gardens-could-reduce-new-house-prices-by-20/

Deub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411020#Comment_119411020

When I see the size of back gardens in new developments, what will the new ones have? An alley?

wassie

They will be marketed as being sustainable and eco friendly.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411020#Comment_119411020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394193#Comment_119394193

Basically lobbyists are campaigning for lower standards on the promise of cheaper housing, then developers are submitting planning with more units, they then flip the land at a much higher price resulting in lower standards leading to higher prices

What's that definition of stupidity again?

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410984#Comment_119410984

The point being that he didn't emigrate again he stayed and fought for workers rights.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411413#Comment_119411413

He left to the US for nine years.

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411503#Comment_119411503

I'm so wrong😂 Just shows how useless my history is. The point I was trying to make is that people have historically fought for better rights. Not everyone just leaves as Dav01 recommends because someone else owns all the land/ capital/ etc.

Perhaps this is a better example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deccan_Riots

Expecting people to leave because the top 1% have 27.3% (2015) of the wealth may not always wash with people, especially if the share of the 1% continues to rise. What if the 1% own 99% of the wealth, do you think people will just accept that? If not what figure is acceptable?

edit: appreciate the correction and apologies for my completely inaccurate historical reference but can we just leave it at that? This is not a politics/ social forum. I think I made my point satisfactorily in answer to David's suggestion that people f off if they are poor.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412068#Comment_119412068

That is not what I said.

Unsurprisingly, you understand neither the subject matter, nor the context. I said if you cannot get what you want, where you want it, you need to broaden your search, as people have done for generations. You were the one trying to give the history/politics lesson referencing Cromwellian/French revolution/early 20th century socialist rhetoric.

Villa05

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412149#Comment_119412149

I said if you cannot get what you want, where you want it, you need to broaden your search, as people have done for generations

I think in relation to housing we are a long way off wants, this is a discussion on people's needs. Wants are way off in the distance, unreachable. People have been broadening their searches and as in the celtic tiger, it was a disaster, so it will be in the 20's

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411037#Comment_119411037

They might as well make them apartments if the garden is the size of a postage stamp imo.....you could build upwards then

High density indeed

combat14

Just seen this interesting quote on last housing bubble today:

"The axiomatic error was that housing prices only go up. I don’t support predatory lending, but many of those lenders were severely wounded or didn’t survive.

They dug their own graves – a lesson we should all take to heart, including me." Elon Musk, May 2022

Fascinating quote as China's ongoing property market woes threatens to cause serious upset & potential finacial instabilty there:

China's property sales are set to plunge 30% — worse than in 2008, S&P says (CNBC 27 July 2022)

lucky we have learnt our lessons from the last property crash here - its hard for prices to drop when supply is kept artificially low for years on end

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119402754#Comment_119402754

Yes, I agree, they do look awful. Whoever thought the gable end of a house would be nice as an entrance/front needs a talking too. I guess they may save on space and developer will cram in more houses. I'd imagine the garden is very small?

timmyntc

The idea that people should just put up with the fact that despite having reliable employment they will never have a stable enough living situation to start a family etc, is absurd. People will not put up with it. Either proper long term regulated rental market (unlikely) or populism will win out and we will get more government interference in the market. But the majority will not just suck it up.

A ridiculous attitude to markets in general also - any market should look to cater to many people at many price points. You can always buy cheaper 2nd hand cars, less luxurious models. But property is basically off limits to a large amount of people. Attitudes like @Dav010 are exactly why the market is as dysfunctional as it is.

As said long before, Sinn Fein are guaranteed big gains next election - I doubt they can fix things, but so long as they dont actively make things worse like Darragh OBriens shared-equity scheme, developer subsidy scheme, and so on, then its a positive.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419761#Comment_119419761

Unfortunately attitudes like yours will ensure that people are stuck here indefinitely with little prospect of owning their home. Instead of whinging about the way things should be and hoping someone else will help you, help yourself. Look for a market where your wage will allow you to buy a home. Stand on your own two feet.

Jesus, I hope you don’t think that SF are magically going to solve the housing crisis, remember, someone has to pay for all these promises they are making, and it is going to be you.

AySeeDoubleYeh

The fact that you still see this as "whinging" is both hugely disappointing and an indictment on your stance here. You have made your mind up, nothing is going to change it.

I'm sure if we all gave up our Netflix subs and takeaway coffees we'd be grand, right?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419869#Comment_119419869

That gardai, nurses, teachers employed in the capital cannot afford to live there is not a normal circumstance - the minute those people leave and "look for a market where their wage will buy a home" people like yourself will be complaining no doubt

The market has been massively distorted by years of bad policy to get here - most people recognise that but you seem adamant that everything is great. Do you own your house by any chance?

Also if you were able to read you would see I said I doubt SF will fix things, however they may stop making the situation worse. Policies from current lot like Shared Equity and HTB only inflate the market, serves no purpose other than to push prices up further. And then the proposed subsidies for developers - to quote yourself...

Instead of whinging about the way things should be and hoping someone else will help you, help yourself. Look for a market where your wage will allow you to buy a home. Stand on your own two feet.

I think this should apply to developers alright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419925#Comment_119419925

I do own my own home. After graduation in the early 90s I emigrated to study/work, returning when I could afford to. My two eldest children live in the UK. So I’m sorry, I have little sympathy for those who think society owes them a house where they want to live.

You have to help yourself by identifying where you can afford to live, if it isn’t Dublin, then there is no point in waiting for SF to help you buy a house. It isn’t going to happen because the reasons for property prices are many, some, like the number of high earning tech sector workers, are not within their power to affect, without affecting lower paid workers, and damaging the economy further.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395307#Comment_119395307

Why are they leaving, is it because they can't buy a home here, the three countries they have gone to also have massive property prices.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420184#Comment_119420184

Well according to them there is more money to be made when the costs of living (not just housing) and things like taxation are taken into consideration.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420347#Comment_119420347

And when SF get into power taxation will go down and wages will go up.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119420041#Comment_119420041

I have little sympathy for those who think society owes them a house where they want to live.

You keep mentioning this strawman - who has claimed they are "owed" anything?

The reality is, the country cannot function without essential civil servants and roles like nurses, gardai, teachers, trades, shopworkers, etc etc. There are so many professions that need to be "local" but cannot in todays market afford a house. The country will stop functioning in parts if this goes on - already its very difficult to get teachers in Dublin, many Gardai stationed in Dublin quit because of the cost of living, many nurses emigrate for same.

The idea that the Dublin housing market can be just tech bros and pharma workers is a delusion - you cannot run a city or country with only tech & pharma workers.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119421347#Comment_119421347

Will it?? A recession coming, people simply cannot afford the current costs to live here and it is still going up and I reckon we will see a an uptick in unemployment as these costs are not just for the individual a lot of small to medium companies will hit the wall, add in the madness of paying our public sector 10% pay rises mainly based on the profits from corpo taxes that could go at any stage didnt SF say they were going to tax wealth more I cannot see them saying this and not going after the corpo tax rate be interesting to see what way it goes. It is beginning to smell a bit like 2006, I do think property prices will remain high and we wont see a drop like 2008 but there are more properties coming on stream yet demand is till high. I simply cannot see how SF will be able to drop taxation down.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119422437#Comment_119422437

Join the club Timmy its not just gardai and nurses its every profession that cannot afford it, its the same in the US New York not affordable by most, same In France (Paris), England (London) and other affluent areas where there is a high demand to live, why would Ireland and Dublin be any different and its not just gardai and nurses emigrating. Your argument is the strawman our public sector wages are 20% higher on average than the private sectors wage.

yagan

I was checking commodity prices and copper is usually a leading indicator of where construction is at globally and it's down about 20% since March off a two year plateau. It could be that supply has caught up with demand or demand is declining. Lumber prices are a third of what they were six months ago.

Ozark707

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119422592#Comment_119422592

Many countries are seeing HP's drop now so it is understandable that demand for new builds will fall. If labour costs are anything like what we have then as many point out it will be uneconomic for builders to bring more to the market.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119422437#Comment_119422437

The standard of living depends on the emigration safety valve. If enough people leave in search of a better life it will free up resources for those who remain.

That is dysfunctional but the 2008-12 years showed that this is still the "model" for Irish society.

The next recession will maybe crash tech and free up housing for whoever can survive being pummeled by economic forces.

Dav is right that an ambitious person who wants a house is better off crafting a personal solution rather than waiting for a political solution. But not all 4.9 million Irish people will be able to find a personal solution unfortunately so the systemic problem remains.