Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

MeadowMaker

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-58a-olcovar-shankill-dublin-18/2749616

Reduced by 20k.

Anybody else notice that properties are beginning to sit around and even reduce in price.

MeadowMaker

MeadowMaker wrote: »

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-58a-olcovar-shankill-dublin-18/2749616

Reduced by 20k.

Anybody else notice that properties are beginning to sit around and even reduce in price.

I think that vendors taking the p1ss are being called out, yes. I mean, half a mill for a 100sq m house in D18. Are you kidding? That place is tiny....is just some smart photography

MacronvFrugals

The mad socialists in the Dublin Chamber of commerce are calling for "a doubling of public investment in housing construction in urban areas"


Housing is biggest concern for Dublin businesses, survey finds

“Businesses need decisive action to address the crisis through construction of purpose-built affordable homes in a large scale in Dublin and other cities,” said Dublin Chamber director of public and international affairs Aebhric Mc Gibney.

He said the availability and affordability of accommodation remains the most immediate threat to cost competitiveness in the Greater Dublin Area.

“If Dublin is to maintain its international competitiveness, and its reputation as a great place to live, study, visit and work, then it needs to tackle the housing and infrastructure challenges head-on,” said Mr Mc Gibney.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/housing-is-biggest-concern-for-dublin-businesses-survey-finds-1.4613096

Villa05

Ace2007 wrote:

The reality of the situation is that most people could move to a different county and get a similar job, but they don't want to and hence we have this housing issue.

Suppose those people moved to other counties to take up a different job. What potential issues would arise in Dublin?

Shall we move the hopitals, schools and Gardai to Athlone

Maybe we could use drones to deliver your groceries and collect your rubbish as supermarkets are not viable

Housing deliverey via 3d printers

PropBuyer101

Villa05 wrote: »

Suppose those people moved to other counties to take up a different job. What potential issues would arise in Dublin?

Shall we move the hopitals, schools and Gardai to Athlone

Maybe we could use drones to deliver your groceries and collect your rubbish as supermarkets are not viable

Housing deliverey via 3d printers

doesnt athone have hospitals and schools and supermarkets? #confused

fliball123

jill_valentine wrote: »

Eh... no.

Median full time salary in Ireland is around 35k, so half the workforce earn less than that.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-fact-check-is-the-average-income-really-47-000-1.4155272?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

No, the chap I knew coming from Belfast could not have bought his apartment in Naas or Navan instead.

Median for the country was 37k back in 2018 and Dublin median is a lot higher

fliball123

AdamD wrote: »

If you don't think this is a systemic problem then I'm not sure we'll ever agree. People shouldn't need to commute 2 hours to work.

Also of the 665 properties listed at 280k or under, how many of those will actually sell below 300k? How many of those are in absolute bits and need tens of thousands to be livable?

Do you think everyone can just live where they want and not have to pay the price others will pay? how does this work? Answer is = it doesn't and like I said this is how it is in most cities/towns all over the globe where there is a high demand to live in that area have the same demand and prices. Why could people not do what I did, also the house I bought further in towards Dublin was a doer upper and I got good advice from my dad who said do one room at a time and concentrate on the areas you will mostly use. It took me a few years to get it the way I want. But the generation after me want their A1 rated house in leafy foxrock/Malahide/howth/Dalkey/Kiliney or on a hill over looking the sea but dont want to pay the price that such places would command and they want it now, absolutely no concept of being patient or getting on the ladder buying further out and instead of the money being paid on rent your actually paying down your mortgage so when you have saved enough and think about the next step you also have equity going into the place you buy from what you have.

Having to buy further out maybe a problem for the person working but its up to them to better their own situation or else take a chance buy out further and work your way in.

fliball123

Ace2007 wrote: »

This is the number one problem, to many people want to live in Dublin because:

All their friends are there and they don't want to move and have to make new friends.
All their family is there and don't want to move away from them.
They don't want to leave their current job.
They don't want to take a pay cut by moving to similar job down the country
They don't want to commute an hour or two a day.

The reality of the situation is that most people could move to a different county and get a similar job, but they don't want to and hence we have this housing issue.

So why should we pander to this cohort who will not buy where they can afford and will only want to buy where you want. Phuck me I would love an A1 rated house overlooking howth harbour but I sure as sh1te cant afford it. So now because of this there is systemic problem? REALLY ..people need to get busy living and trying to find solutions to the issues they are facing as if they are waiting for politicians to do it they will be left there waiting.

Ace2007

jill_valentine wrote: »

Eh... no.

Median full time salary in Ireland is around 35k, so half the workforce earn less than that.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-fact-check-is-the-average-income-really-47-000-1.4155272?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

No, the chap I knew coming from Belfast could not have bought his apartment in Naas or Navan instead.

It has to be a personal choice for him to live in Belfast and work in Dublin though.

As for the salary stated above, do you believe that anyone should be able to afford to buy a house, regardless if they are on min wage?

jill_valentine

Ace2007 wrote: »

You'd swear there are no colleges/universities outside of Dublin - let's have a look:

Maynooth University
Munster Technological University (granted this is new)
NUI Galway
UCC
University of Limerick

5 of the 10 major universities/colleges are not in Dublin. You can do the majority of courses in any of those colleges that you can do in Dublin.

So in other words, *half* of the entire country's major third level capacity is in Dublin. And everyone who can or wants to go elsewhere does.

Amenities - what does this actually mean? Is there no pubs/restaurants/hotels/ shopping centers, cinema's etc outside of Dublin? Like if that's the case how does the majority of Ireland's population survive given they don't live in Dublin:rolleyes:

In my home village there are two pubs smaller than most living rooms. You won't get a clean pint glass in one because there's no hot water, but you can have free cat hair in your Guinness in the other (and what are you doing ordering a full pint of Guinness anyway if you're a girl...?)

Next town over there's a hotel that's been closing on an off for fifteen years. No cinema, literally nowhere *except* a pub to go, and you don't want to go to the ones there unless you're big into contact sports. There's more or less nothing else - the last bank just closed, and the post office will close as soon as the current owner retires because nobody wants to take it on. Most of the town are dependent on the local factory or Tesco for work, if they work, but a good chunk just live on the dole and nixers. Mobile coverage, never mind broadband, is hit and miss.

So let me ask you this instead - what amenities are there? I can have a big long look at the lake I suppose, but I'm not sure how I'll stretch that to Day 2.

And yes, there are bigger towns, but as rough as Dublin's been, I've been much better off here than I would have been in one of them even during on and off lockdown. I have parks, zoos, public meeting spaces, museums, walking coffees etc. Under normal circumstances I could have live music, markets, pick of cinemas, food festivals etc. More to the point, I'd have the choice of all those things and I could get to any of them within the hour and get back home afterwards.

I am very likely to move back out of Dublin eventually, probably when my landlord kicks me out of the place I'm in now, but I'm under no illusions of the limits that comes with, because I lived out there long enough. Catch up on the aul PS3 until retirement I suppose.

You seem to be implying that everywhere outside of Dublin is rural, - there are many cities outside of Dublin and big towns.

I'm aware of that and maybe if we had a functional public transport network beyond Dublin's 1980s commuter belt more people would want to live in them, rather than have to.

As it is we seem to be configuring the country so we'll have three big cities where you can work but not live, and a patchwork of towns in the middle and around them where you might be able to sleep between commutes, but not really work.

I'm from the country and my family are from towns. Pretending those towns have everything available in Dublin is silly, by definition they don't, particularly if you don't drive.

Ace2007 wrote: »

It has to be a personal choice for him to live in Belfast and work in Dublin though.

As for the salary stated above, do you believe that anyone should be able to afford to buy a house, regardless if they are on min wage?

No, no matter how many times posters want to pretend I'm suggesting something unreasonable.

I believe someone on the national median wage should be able to afford to either buy accommodation in the same county as they work, or rent accommodation for less than half their take home pay in the same county as they work, and if we don't have those conditions we should be engineering them one way or the other.

The alternative is an ever more fragile economy, and indeed society. Posters here should be embarrassed to talk so glibly about emigration- a country so difficult to live in people have to leave it in waves is mechanically defective.

cnocbui

schmittel wrote: »

Posted this late last year, (redacted bits we can't discuss, but rest remains relevant):

The short answer is that the single biggest issue with the housing market is the extremely low turnover rate thus government should pursue policies to increase turnover.

That's, er, aspirational. One of the reasons for low turnover is precisely because of government policies. You are going to have as much of a problem changing that mindset as you are weaning Ireland off it's cargo cult approach to MNCs.

High costs are built into the housing transactions sector because it generates employment and revenue. The Government benefits from the high costs in the guise of stamp duty and VAT on the transactions sectors activities. Making the housing market expensive means more stamp duty revenue.

I am trying to sell a property, and so far I have shelled out €1,000 on just surveys, so €230 of that is thanks to government revenue in the form of VAT. If the sale goes through, there will be a further large chunk of VAT on the solicitors fess. If this were a trading down situation, there would be VAT all over again for the next purchase and then stamp duty.

Suggesting the government do something which might rely on them foregoing revenue is very wishful thinking.

The other issue is the no easy solutions supply problem which is a requirement for increased turnover, other than that occurring due to death or emigration.

Ace2007

jill_valentine wrote: »

No, no matter how many times posters want to pretend I'm suggesting something unreasonable.

I believe someone on the national median wage should be able to afford to either buy accommodation in the same county as they work, or rent accommodation for less than half their take home pay in the same county as they work, and if we don't have those conditions we should be engineering them one way or the other.

But should someone who is on the min wage in a supermarket for instance be able to afford their own house?

If you answer to that is no, then they are a drag on the median salary that you quote about and the median salary of those who should be able to afford a house is going to be much higher, as your excluding all those on min wage or just slightly higher.

PropBuyer101

cnocbui wrote: »

That's, er, aspirational. One of the reasons for low turnover is precisely because of government policies. You are going to have as much of a problem changing that mindset as you are weaning Ireland off it's cargo cult approach to MNCs.

High costs are built into the housing transactions sector because it generates employment and revenue. The Government benefits from the high costs in the guise of stamp duty and VAT on the transactions sectors activities. Making the housing market expensive means more stamp duty revenue.

I am trying to sell a property, and so far I have shelled out €1,000 on just surveys, so €230 of that is thanks to government revenue in the form of VAT. If the sale goes through, there will be a further large chunk of VAT on the solicitors fess. If this were a trading down situation, there would be VAT all over again for the next purchase and then stamp duty.

Suggesting the government do something which might rely on them foregoing revenue is very wishful thinking.

The other issue is the no easy solutions supply problem which is a requirement for increased turnover, other than that occurring due to death or emigration.

why are you paying for a survey for a house you are selling

hometruths

cnocbui wrote: »

That's, er, aspirational. One of the reasons for low turnover is precisely because of government policies. You are going to have as much of a problem changing that mindset as you are weaning Ireland off it's cargo cult approach to MNCs.

High costs are built into the housing transactions sector because it generates employment and revenue. The Government benefits from the high costs in the guise of stamp duty and VAT on the transactions sectors activities. Making the housing market expensive means more stamp duty revenue.

I am trying to sell a property, and so far I have shelled out €1,000 on just surveys, so €230 of that is thanks to government revenue in the form of VAT. If the sale goes through, there will be a further large chunk of VAT on the solicitors fess. If this were a trading down situation, there would be VAT all over again for the next purchase and then stamp duty.

Suggesting the government do something which might rely on them foregoing revenue is very wishful thinking.

The other issue is the no easy solutions supply problem which is a requirement for increased turnover, other than that occurring due to death or emigration.

I agree it requires a total change of mindset but it should not be aspirational. It just requires as somebody else said, a government with a backbone.

There are relatively simple solutions. But they are not easy politically.

cnocbui

PropBuyer101 wrote: »

why are you paying for a survey for a house you are selling

The property on which the house is located is on the Register of deeds and I had to get the 7km boundary fence checked.

PropBuyer101

cnocbui wrote: »

The property on which the house is located is on the Register of deeds and I had to get the 7km boundary fence checked.

aww i see!

cnocbui

What would you add if this were in Dublin - €800K ?

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-summerhill-house-summerhill-nenagh-co-tipperary/3440166

PropBuyer101

cnocbui wrote: »

What you add if this were in Dublin - €800K ?

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-summerhill-house-summerhill-nenagh-co-tipperary/3440166

wow its fab - in dublin i'd say at least 1.5 milion

Eclectic Econometrics

cnocbui wrote: »

What you add if this were in Dublin - €800K ?

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-summerhill-house-summerhill-nenagh-co-tipperary/3440166

You could commute. Is it a long way?

fliball123

fliball123 wrote: »

Do you think everyone can just live where they want and not have to pay the price others will pay? how does this work? Answer is = it doesn't and like I said this is how it is in most cities/towns all over the globe where there is a high demand to live in that area have the same demand and prices. Why could people not do what I did, also the house I bought further in towards Dublin was a doer upper and I got good advice from my dad who said do one room at a time and concentrate on the areas you will mostly use. It took me a few years to get it the way I want. But the generation after me want their A1 rated house in leafy foxrock/Malahide/howth/Dalkey/Kiliney or on a hill over looking the sea but dont want to pay the price that such places would command and they want it now, absolutely no concept of being patient or getting on the ladder buying further out and instead of the money being paid on rent your actually paying down your mortgage so when you have saved enough and think about the next step you also have equity going into the place you buy from what you have.

Having to buy further out maybe a problem for the person working but its up to them to better their own situation or else take a chance buy out further and work your way in.

Nope, nobody said this but continue your tirade - 'I suffered so everyone else should too'. Tripe.

There is something functionally wrong with the housing market if people need to buy 2 hours away from their workplace. Its nothing to do with patience, working harder, suffering or any other nonsense. Its just terrible policy.

Ace2007

cnocbui wrote: »

What would you add if this were in Dublin - €800K ?

https://www.daft.ie/for-sale/detached-house-summerhill-house-summerhill-nenagh-co-tipperary/3440166

I find with some of those houses, that they can end up sitting on the market a while though, as it's not really what anyone wants to buy, too big/old to put modern twist on them, probably can't knock down walls etc.

There is a gorgeous house down in Waterford at the moment going for 1.75m, if it was Dalkey it would probably be 6m

PropBuyer101

AdamD wrote: »

Nope, nobody said this but continue your tirade - 'I suffered so everyone else should too'. Tripe.

There is something functionally wrong with the housing market if people need to buy 2 hours away from their workplace. Its nothing to do with patience, working harder, suffering or any other nonsense. Its just terrible policy.

but its not just an irish problem people have to commute in london, nyc too. the reality is that house prices are not coming down over the next few years and supply also will not improve in the short term. more investment is needed in infrastructure also. but that doesnt solve short term housing needs. short term if you cant afford dublin then you will have to commute until you can afford it. thats really all there is that people can do at the moment. so accept it or legislate for change to change things in the future.

cnocbui

AdamD wrote: »

Nope, nobody said this but continue your tirade - 'I suffered so everyone else should too'. Tripe.

There is something functionally wrong with the housing market if people need to buy 2 hours away from their workplace. Its nothing to do with patience, working harder, suffering or any other nonsense. Its just terrible policy.

I agree with him. I bought a half finished house and finished it myself as I couldn't have afforded it in a finished state, and that was nowhere near Dublin. I made significant sacrifices in order to save enough to get on the property ladder.

People mostly seem to want a turn key new build at a rundown fixer-upper price.

cnocbui

Eclectic Econometrics wrote: »

You could commute. Is it a long way?

I don't live in Dublin - I'm actually only 20min away from that house and I drove passed it earlier today while in the town. But you are right, for the price difference you could buy a Robinson helicopter, get a licence and it would be a 45min commute at 210kmh to cover the 160km, if you had landing pads at each end, and you would still save a large wedge.

cnocbui

Speaking of commuting, many years ago, I was on a flight from London to Shannon on a Friday evening, and sat next to a man; who it turned out, was returning home to his family who lived in or near limerick. He had a flat in London and spent the working week there, but spent his weekends in IE with his family. I like when people think outside the box.

Ace2007

cnocbui wrote: »

Speaking of commuting, many years ago, I was on a flight from London to Shannon on a Friday evening, and sat next to a man; who it turned out, was returning home to his family who lived in or near limerick. He had a flat in London and spent the working week there, but spent his weekends in IE with his family. I like when people think outside the box.

There are many construction folk doing this, and/or did this during the last recession. They just got on with it as it's what they had to do.

fliball123

AdamD wrote: »

Nope, nobody said this but continue your tirade - 'I suffered so everyone else should too'. Tripe.

There is something functionally wrong with the housing market if people need to buy 2 hours away from their workplace. Its nothing to do with patience, working harder, suffering or any other nonsense. Its just terrible policy.

This is how it has always been. On myhome currently there are a little over 12k houses up for sale in the country and almost half can be afforded by a couple on the median wage using the 3.5x times salary and 10% deposit. What more do you want. Free housing for all , where do you want to live will we all start a phucking gofundme page so you can live where you want?

No one owes you anything get up off your hole better your circumstances or widen your gaze for where you want to live, you also have the option of leaving the country. Its not a tirade, just tired of a certain cohort who want everything handed to them and dont want to put in the hard yards to get there themselves.

Roberto_gas

Supply demand GAP is a global phenomenon ! Covid savings have fuelled prices higher across globe ! Money has lost its value as well in last year or so..No one knows how this will end !

flexcon

fliball123 wrote: »

This is how it has always been. On myhome currently there are a little over 12k houses up for sale in the country and almost half can be afforded by a couple on the median wage using the 3.5x times salary and 10% deposit. What more do you want. Free housing for all , where do you want to live will we all start a phucking gofundme page so you can live where you want?

No one owes you anything get up off your hole better your circumstances or widen your gaze for where you want to live, you also have the option of leaving the country. Its not a tirade, just tired of a certain cohort who want everything handed to them and dont want to put in the hard yards to get there themselves.

I’d say a third of those are not actually available. So many new builds are advertised but are sold out but they leave the ads up there. Supply is the primary issue.

yer man!

Ace2007 wrote: »

Where are the apartments going to be built and whose going to pay for them to be built - many people are against investment funds being involved at all.
You have residents setting up go fund me pages to bring judicial reviews against granted planning permissions, It's like everyone wants more housing but not in their neighborhood or not that high up or whatever.

So you basically want private landlords to leave the market, and are happy with institutional investors to run the apartment scene in Ireland?

Your one of the first posters who says we need more apartments btw, everyone else seems to be talking about houses, but you want more apartments???

In the Netherlands, the developer borrows a 2% for large apartment buildings where I am at the moment. He creates the plans and invites in buyers to buy off plans. New builds are treated a self builds here so you transfer money to the developer as different phases of your construction are complete. This is one of the reasons the developer gets a good rate on the loan for which he doesn't need for very long. The liability is balanced in a sliding scale from the developer to the owner, when it's built, you pay the last amount, you get your house/apartment.

Ireland has a ton of houses, we need them all, but so many of those houses have people that don't need to be in houses. Ask someone in a house share if they would like to be spending a grand a month living with people or close to the same amount to live in an apartment they own? Apartments aren't the best but they're an awful lot better than the living conditions of so many in Ireland currently.

I have lived in an apartment for the last 6 years now, I now want a house but I have had a very comfortable life in this time, I didn't have to share.