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UFC 262: Oliveira vs. Chandler

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    #92
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    eagle eye wrote: »
    If Dariush is 5 and Oliveira and Chandler are ahead of him the division is on a bad state.
    Right now for me the top fighters on the division are Poirier, Gaethje and RDA.
    I'd personally rate Mackhachev and Gillespie as next best after those three.

    Gillespie, gway would you, he's not top 5 by any stretch.


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    #93
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    eagle eye wrote: »
    If Dariush is 5 and Oliveira and Chandler are ahead of him the division is on a bad state.
    Right now for me the top fighters on the division are Poirier, Gaethje and RDA.
    I'd personally rate Mackhachev and Gillespie as next best after those three.
    So Gregor, with no fights in top 10. Is better that McGregor, Chandler, Dariush. Is he better than Keven Lee? Who he lost to?
    You’re just throwing out random babes names to avoid giving credit to the lads your crapping on or their opponents.

    Still haven’t said when this mythical pre-Covid Tony existed. Proves my point that it didn’t happen. He had wins. But never good performances.


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    #94
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,552 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Mellor wrote: »
    You’re just throwing out random babes to avoid giving credit to the lads your crapping on or their opponents.

    It seems you both may have verrry different rankings here...


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    #95
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    It seems you both may have verrry different rankings here...

    It took be a second to figure out what the autocorrect was at there. I assume I meant names, obviously my phone search history has betrayed me.


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    #96
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,512 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Mellor wrote:
    So Gregor, with no fights in top 10. Is better that McGregor, Chandler, Dariush. Is he better than Keven Lee? Who he lost to? You’re just throwing out random babes names to avoid giving credit to the lads your crapping on or their opponents.
    I said my personal view is that Makhachev and Gillespie are after the top three.
    Again it's just an opinion as they haven't beaten any proven top fighters much like Oliveira and Dariush.
    Mellor wrote:
    Still haven’t said when this mythical pre-Covid Tony existed. Proves my point that it didn’t happen. He had wins. But never good performances.
    How about what he did to Pettis?


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    #97
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I said my personal view is that Makhachev and Gillespie are after the top three.
    Again it's just an opinion as they haven't beaten any proven top fighters much like Oliveira and Dariush.
    Oliveira's last 3 opponents have been Kevin Lee, Tony Ferguson, and Chandler.
    Might not be the best of the best. But all are top 10 fighters.

    Gregor has fought one top 10 fighter. Kevin Lee. who is lost to.

    Islam has massive potential imo. But has had the match ups yet.
    How about what he did to Pettis?
    If that's the best example of prime Tony. It completely proves my point.
    He got the Win fair and square. It was a good fight to watch. It was far from a flawless performance. All his fights fit hat mould.


    He lost the first round. He was dropped and was doing the same goofy sloppy stuff he always does when losing.
    Had a comeback in the second. Cut Pettis open. His corner pulled him
    (Pettis broke his hand punching Tony in Rd1).

    https://streamable.com/hg69h


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    #98
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,512 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Well the same Pettis beat Oliveira and beat Wonderboy right after the loss to Tony.


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    #99
    MidlanderMan
    Registered Users Posts: 663 ✭✭✭MidlanderMan


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Well the same Pettis beat Oliveira and beat Wonderboy right after the loss to Tony.

    Pettis best Oliveira 5 years ago.

    Stop trying to do MMA math. It's ridiculous.


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    #100
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,512 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    MidlanderMan wrote:
    Pettis best Oliveira 5 years ago.

    Stop trying to do MMA math. It's ridiculous.
    We are going through Tony's history so it's relevant.


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    #101
    Brussels Sprout
    Registered Users Posts: 6,520 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    The main reason that Islam Makachev doesn't have any big name wins is that nobody wants to fight him. He's in a very similar spot to where Kamaru Usman was in early 2018 - 7 fight win streak in the UFC but a ranking lower than his abilities probably merit. That creates a lose-lose scenario for any of the top fighters to take a fight with him which makes it difficult for him to progress.

    Usman's career took off at that point and I think Makachev's will now too.


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    #102
    mailburner
    Registered Users Posts: 23,814 ✭✭✭✭mailburner


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    The main reason that Islam Makachev doesn't have any big name wins is that nobody wants to fight him. He's in a very similar spot to where Kamaru Usman was in early 2018 - 7 fight win streak in the UFC but a ranking lower than his abilities probably merit. That creates a lose-lose scenario for any of the top fighters to take a fight with him which makes it difficult for him to progress.

    Usman's career took off at that point and I think Makachev's will now too.

    His upcoming fight with Moises after beating Dober had me scratching my head unless there actually was nobody else.

    I was thinking rda or even hooker would have been the perfect next step...even Felder.


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    #103
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 12,005 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    mailburner wrote: »
    His upcoming fight with Moises after beating Dober had me scratching my head unless there actually was nobody else.

    I was thinking rda or even hooker would have been the perfect next step...even Felder.

    He's pulled out of plenty of fights, so I assume for high profile opponents not much upside to fighting him.

    Basically am unknow killer who is likely to pull out before he fights you, no thanks. :P


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    #104
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Well the same Pettis beat Oliveira and beat Wonderboy right after the loss to Tony.
    How does that have any bearing on Tony’s poor performance?
    I didn’t claim Pettis wasn’t a good fighter. He was. The point was the best performance you could list, was one where he scraped past an injured opponent.

    And Oliveria losing 5 years ago? Charlie was a top 5 fighter then. He wasn’t even in the lightweight division. Grasping at straws there.


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    #105
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,022 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    Happy Oliveira got the W, he definitely deserved to be in a title fight given his run, Chandler? Well, I think his chin has always been suspect but still surprised to see him lose by TKO in this one. Did he deserve the fight? No of course not, but who else was gonna be in the title fight? The division had to move on and Poirier turned it down, I'd have give it to Justin personally but can understand why it went to Chandler. Dana wants a return on that investment.

    Tony is done at the top level, he has given us some great moments over the years but I'd be more inclined to agree with Mellor that he was never actually immense or anything. He has incredible endurance and is tough as nails but he has always been too open, too sloppy and it has cost him when it comes to the top level guys. Now he has lost a step he is looking worse against the below the top tier guys I guess.

    The bonus for Chandler having lost, which I think he took brilliantly btw, is that he has plenty of fights available in the division and if they are going to wait it out and give the next shot to whoever wins the DP/CM match then I'd like to see him matched up with Gaethje next.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



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    #106
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,512 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Mellor wrote:
    How does that have any bearing on Tony’s poor performance? I didn’t claim Pettis wasn’t a good fighter. He was. The point was the best performance you could list, was one where he scraped past an injured opponent.


    And Oliveria losing 5 years ago? Charlie was a top 5 fighter then. He wasn’t even in the lightweight division. Grasping at straws there.
    Well my memory of that fight is Tony dominating for most of it.


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    #107
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    We have different opinions on what dominating means, it seems.


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    #108
    ASOT
    Registered Users Posts: 7,733 ✭✭✭ASOT


    Tony was getting beat and nearly finished until Pettis broke his hand.


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    #109
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    "IT'S TIGHT"
    "IT'S TIGHT!!!"
    *head pops free*

    "Ya know, in this situation we can't get up"
    *Chandler pops up to his feet*

    Gotta love the commentary. :pac:

    Nice main event. Better watched on mute though. :P


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    #110
    RulesOfNature
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭RulesOfNature


    ASOT wrote: »
    Tony was getting beat and nearly finished until Pettis broke his hand.

    Do you think that hand broke out of nowhere ?


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    #111
    MidlanderMan
    Registered Users Posts: 663 ✭✭✭MidlanderMan


    RulesOfNature wrote: »
    Do you think that hand broke out of nowhere ?

    Ah yeah Tony's genius defensive positioning lead to Pettis cracking his hand off Tony's fat head.

    Ffs.


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    #112
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    RulesOfNature wrote: »
    Do you think that hand broke out of nowhere ?
    Do you think Tony broke it?

    eagle eye wrote: »
    Well my memory of that fight is Tony dominating for most of it.
    Luckily we don't have to rely our memories. We have the video of the fight.
    Posting it above, must have been missed. This clips sums up everything that is the madness of Tony Ferguson.

    https://streamable.com/hg69h


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    #113
    RulesOfNature
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭RulesOfNature


    MidlanderMan wrote: »
    Ah yeah Tony's genius defensive positioning lead to Pettis cracking his hand off Tony's fat head.

    Ffs.

    Dunno what you're even trying to say here. Tony's chin is so good he broke Pettis' hand?

    Whats wrong with you people - trying to turn a victory into a loss.

    Tony was a good fighter and he beat many fighters. This isn't hard to accept.


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    #114
    RulesOfNature
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭RulesOfNature


    Mellor wrote: »
    Do you think Tony broke it?

    Pettis' hand would've broken whether he was fighting Ferguson that night or lying in bed. Clearly its God's work, and has nothing to do with literally high impact martial arts against a good fighter.


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    #115
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    RulesOfNature wrote: »
    Pettis' hand would've broken whether he was fighting Ferguson that night or lying in bed. Clearly its God's work, and has nothing to do with literally high impact martial arts against a good fighter.
    You really can't grasp the difference between Pettis breaking his own hand, and Tony breaking Pettis's hand?

    Some injuries are caused by active defensive skill.
    Breaking somebody hand with your face is not one of them.


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    #116
    RulesOfNature
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭RulesOfNature


    Mellor wrote: »
    You really can't grasp the difference between Pettis breaking his own hand, and Tony breaking Pettis's hand?

    Some injuries are caused by active defensive skill.
    Breaking somebody hand with your face is not one of them.

    Yes, and JFK died from brain trauma. The bullet was just there by coincidence.

    Pal, Pettis broke his hand fighting Ferguson. End of. Enough with the this or that semantics.


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    #117
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    RulesOfNature wrote: »
    Yes, and JFK died from brain trauma. The bullet was just there by coincidence.

    Pal, Pettis broke his hand fighting Ferguson. End of. Enough with the this or that semantics.
    You seem to have trouble with comprehending a pretty simply point.
    Nobody suggested for a second that it didn't happen in a fight verses Ferguson.


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    #118
    Axwell
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭Axwell


    RulesOfNature wrote: »
    Do you think that hand broke out of nowhere ?

    As was asked before, do you think Tony broke it? Like that it was part of some gameplan going into the fight that he would somehow break Pettis hand!?

    Not sure if you are actually trolling or just missing the point of the conversation. The conversation involves someone saying Ferguson dominated Pettis. If you are getting smacked around the place and then only go on to scrape the fight because the other fighter has a broken hand thats a pretty weak example of dominating another fighter, especially if using that to highlight one of their best performances.

    No one is turning the win into a loss, but its not hard to see its not a ‘dominant’ performance watching the fight and taking things into account.


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    #119
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,512 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Mellor wrote:
    Luckily we don't have to rely our memories. We have the video of the fight. Posting it above, must have been missed. This clips sums up everything that is the madness of Tony Ferguson.
    How did you score those two rounds?

    I'd have it 20-17 to Ferguson.


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    #120
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,024 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    eagle eye wrote: »
    How did you score those two rounds?

    I'd have it 20-17 to Ferguson.
    It was 2 and a half years ago. I honestly don't remember how I scored it on the night. And I don't believe that you are recalling your actual score either.

    But I remember being a great fight. Back and forth. Tony look to be losing early, but came back and finished strong. He looked like death before the fight, but gastank was good.
    A close fight, where Duke made the call to pull Pettis due to the broken hand.


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    #121
    Tazzimus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,933 ✭✭✭Tazzimus


    eagle eye wrote: »
    How did you score those two rounds?

    I'd have it 20-17 to Ferguson.
    You should be a UFC judge, with scoring like that.


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