Munster vs Connacht, Fri 14th May 6pm; Eir Sport

Shaka Hislop

VayNiice wrote: »

I don't think many had a problem with the la rochelle loss. It's was a tough loss but I didn't hear any whinging. Most leinster fans accepted the better team won.

I believe there wasn't a single post on the match thread saying Connacht didn't deserve the win

aloooof

VayNiice wrote: »

Being happy seeing an Irish province lose to a French team full of imports will always stir some mixed emotions.

It's very different to moaning about referees having a bias against munster if you don't like the result of a match.

That’s a straw-man tho, and not what Tom suggested. It was possible to be happy for Rog AND sorry an Irish province lost to a French team.

(Edit, just to be clear there was that position as well as some awful takes from a minority in that match thread also, which I’m obviously not defending).

Equally it’s possible to think the ref had a bad game AND Munster deserved to lose.

typhoony

VayNiice wrote: »

Casey is being made out to be the new saviour but I felt he was poor at times. Got bounced like a rag doll a couple of times, particularly with his attempted tackle on Arnold who is no man-mountain.

Also seemed slower getting the ball away, similar to Murray.

co-commentator was really bigging up Casey, meanwhile Marmion was quietly and excellently going about his business. this narrative about him being a fiery committed lad who's always first to training as if it makes hum a better player, personally i think he needs to tone it down a notch or 2.

ClanofLams

Jesus that three red kings Munster fan account on Twitter is real cringe. I get it’s obviously going to be biased in terms of content but having a weekend long meltdown over a game when the ref decisions as highlighted here didn’t especially favour any team is embarrassing.

Dave_The_Sheep

Not for the first time.

Akrasia

ClanofLams wrote: »

Jesus that three red kings Munster fan account on Twitter is real cringe. I get it’s obviously going to be biased in terms of content but having a weekend long meltdown over a game when the ref decisions as highlighted here didn’t especially favour any team is embarrassing.

When you lose by 4 points in a game with 2 disallowed tries and multiple dodgy refereeing decisions, that is always gonna be a talking point.
Btw, in this thread only a small number of the baffling refereeing has been brought up. The problem with inconsistency from a referee is that it punishes teams for trying to be smart and playing the referee

If a team notices a ref is letting the opposition go off their feet, it is clever play to change your own behavior to neutralize that advantage at the breakdown, but if you then get pinged for doing something the other team just got away with, it’s infuriating

It’s also completely natural to only notice poor refereeing decisions when they go against you

ClanofLams

Akrasia wrote: »

When you lose by 4 points in a game with 2 disallowed tries and multiple dodgy refereeing decisions, that is always gonna be a talking point.
Btw, in this thread only a small number of the baffling refereeing has been brought up. The problem with inconsistency from a referee is that it punishes teams for trying to be smart and playing the referee

If a team notices a ref is letting the opposition go off their feet, it is clever play to change your own behavior to neutralize that advantage at the breakdown, but if you then get pinged for doing something the other team just got away with, it’s infuriating

It’s also completely natural to only notice poor refereeing decisions when they go against you

I understand that. The account just seems incredibly petty and sensitive, dragging up a craggy rugby podcast from four years ago in response to criticism, suggesting papalli somehow started the incident with Jack O'Donoghue where O'Donoghue was holding him beyond the ruck. Other examples but I'm not going through all their tweets.

That was a Connacht team missing five or six first teamers or 23 anyway (Thornbury, Roux, Butler, Ak,i Farrell, Healy and a few others would have played considering those injuries such as Robb TOH etc). It's a game Munster should absolutely win and they didn't perform well at all. Focusing on some ref decisions for a weekend and more or less ignoring Munster's failings looks juvenile.

But it's probably what's best for the business or whatever.

Tomtom364

ClanofLams wrote: »

It's a game Munster should absolutely win and they didn't perform well at all. Focusing on some ref decisions for a weekend and more or less ignoring Munster's failings looks juvenile.

But it's probably what's best for the business or whatever.

Whatever about the free to see Twitter account, if you saw any of his content on this game (and previous games) that is behind the paywall you'd see clearly that he far from ignores Munster's own failings and issues.

theVersatile

"Weekend meltdown" lol. That and the fact that he literally says that JOD held AP first - you're making a bit of a big deal over nothing there.

And whatever about his paid content that Tom points out, there's enough of his tweets there to show that he fully understands Munsters work ons and criticisms - yet you chose to focus on the three or four ref related ones - which he openly admits wasn't the reason they lost.

Akrasia

ClanofLams wrote: »

I understand that. The account just seems incredibly petty and sensitive, dragging up a craggy rugby podcast from four years ago in response to criticism, suggesting papalli somehow started the incident with Jack O'Donoghue where O'Donoghue was holding him beyond the ruck. Other examples but I'm not going through all their tweets.

That was a Connacht team missing five or six first teamers or 23 anyway (Thornbury, Roux, Butler, Ak,i Farrell, Healy and a few others would have played considering those injuries such as Robb TOH etc). It's a game Munster should absolutely win and they didn't perform well at all. Focusing on some ref decisions for a weekend and more or less ignoring Munster's failings looks juvenile.

But it's probably what's best for the business or whatever.

Except he didn’t ignore munsters failings,he said multiple times that Munster didn’t deserve to win that because they performed so poorly and made so many individual errors. In his player ratings he gave the Pack 1 star each and praised the Connacht tight 5 for their ohysicality..

irelandrover

Why does everyone ignore the second part of that quote by CJ?

CJ Stander fumed at the performance of the referee Dan Jones afterwards when he told eir Sport that it had felt like “playing against more than 15 men”, adding “I can say it now I’m done but it’s difficult for both sides."

For me he isnt accusing the ref of bias as he says its tough for both sides. He's just saying the ref is bad.

Its still a bad thing to say and unnecessary.

Burkie1203

irelandrover wrote: »

Why does everyone ignore the second part of that quote by CJ?

CJ Stander fumed at the performance of the referee Dan Jones afterwards when he told eir Sport that it had felt like “playing against more than 15 men”, adding “I can say it now I’m done but it’s difficult for both sides."

For me he isnt accusing the ref of bias as he says its tough for both sides. He's just saying the ref is bad.

Its still a bad thing to say and unnecessary.

Stander (full quote below) argued on field with Jones when he disallowed the POM try. That decision was 100% correct. JOD took a defender out off the ball. Ref went back to a Munster advantage but JOD was technically foul play so the penalty should have been to connacht. ***** See below *****

The 2nd try, IMO Beirne picks the ball up then drops it.

Stander is very much shaping a narrative that the ref made those decisions as some sort of anti munster thing.

If connacht had lost, they could have pointed to numerous calls which went against them. Beirne putting Buckley (?) In a headlock at a ruck and one of the JOD ruck entries on about 70 minutes was no arms and made contact to the head.


I was delighted to see Adamson tell Luke McGrath (?) To shut up on Friday. Long overdue. Think refs need to start dishing out penalties for players appelaing or arguing decisions. Designate Captain and VC on team sheet and only they can speak to refs

* -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Neither did 23 penalties shared almost evenly but CJ Stander fumed at the performance of the referee Dan Jones afterwards when he told eir Sport that it had felt like “playing against more than 15 men”, adding “I can say it now I’m done but it’s difficult for both sides.”

The Ireland back row referenced a “number of calls” and two disallowed tries. The first was a Peter O’Mahony score five minutes after the break that was crossed off for obstruction. The second, claimed by Andrew Conway 10 minutes from time, fell foul of a knock-on.

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*







***** from World Rugby website *****
9 Foul play


A player who commits foul play must either be cautioned or temporarily suspended or sent off.

Obstruction


When a player and an opponent are running for the ball, neither player may charge or push the other except shoulder-to-shoulder.

An offside player must not intentionally obstruct an opponent or interfere with play.

A player must not intentionally prevent an opponent from tackling or attempting to tackle the ball-carrier.

Wegians89

typhoony wrote: »

co-commentator was really bigging up Casey, meanwhile Marmion was quietly and excellently going about his business. this narrative about him being a fiery committed lad who's always first to training as if it makes hum a better player, personally i think he needs to tone it down a notch or 2.

I’d agree with this. Haven’t seen Casey every week but any time I have, he’s had impressive moments but no where near the finished article. Compare that then to blade and marmion (who I would see every week admittedly), who are both much more rounded players.

I’m beginning to wonder should Casey be let develop at a normal rate (not pushed into Irish squads) and let more deserving players have their chance internationally. Casey looks like he will be class in the bit too far future but he’s not there now

Interested Observer

irelandrover wrote: »

Why does everyone ignore the second part of that quote by CJ?

CJ Stander fumed at the performance of the referee Dan Jones afterwards when he told eir Sport that it had felt like “playing against more than 15 men”, adding “I can say it now I’m done but it’s difficult for both sides."

For me he isnt accusing the ref of bias as he says its tough for both sides. He's just saying the ref is bad.

Its still a bad thing to say and unnecessary.

So both teams are playing against more than 15 men? Because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He is absolutely accusing the ref of being against Munster in some way or other. Which is pathetic.

yerrahbah

Wegians89 wrote: »

I’d agree with this. Haven’t seen Casey every week but any time I have, he’s had impressive moments but no where near the finished article. Compare that then to blade and marmion (who I would see every week admittedly), who are both much more rounded players.

I’m beginning to wonder should Casey be let develop at a normal rate (not pushed into Irish squads) and let more deserving players have their chance internationally. Casey looks like he will be class in the bit too far future but he’s not there now

Marmion is 29 made his debut for Ireland in 2014 and has 30 odd caps.
He has 185 appearances for Connacht

Casey is 22, this is the first season where he has gotten regular game time and would have been 14 or 15 when Marmion first played for Ireland.

It would be bad if Marmion wasn't a more rounded player than Casey

aloooof

Interested Observer wrote: »

So both teams are playing against more than 15 men? Because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He is absolutely accusing the ref of being against Munster in some way or other. Which is pathetic.

Pathetic, eh?

Interested Observer wrote: »

Jesus ****ing christ he's reffing the match again. With a Munster touch judge. I had gotten extremely tired of Awec constantly moaning about the league but **** it, I'm all in now and would like to subscribe to his newsletter. Is there any point in watching this?

Interested Observer

aloooof wrote: »

Pathetic, eh?

I'm a nobody on the internet posting on a rugby forum. He is a 50 cap international/senior player for Munster. There is a slight difference in what he says and what I say. On top of it all, he is completely and utterly wrong. The ref made the correct call with both disallowed tries.


Edit - btw, if you are honestly suggesting because I (seriously, who?) said something on a message board once that somehow means it's ok for Stander to come out with this rubbish then you're off you're rocker. And we won't even get into you digging through months old posts looking for some silly gotcha.

Former Former Former

aloooof wrote: »

Pathetic, eh?

In fairness, I don't think you can compare a random internetter on a pretty obscure website with an international rugby player on live TV.

I'm sorry but there's no way to defend Stander on this one. I'm sure he was disappointed to be going out on a losing note but that's on him and his team-mates, blaming the ref was completely out of line and pretty cowardly when the guy has no way to respond.

The two offences he mentioned, the ref clearly got right.

irelandrover

Interested Observer wrote: »

So both teams are playing against more than 15 men? Because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. He is absolutely accusing the ref of being against Munster in some way or other. Which is pathetic.

If the ref always sides with the defensive team then it could be true what he says. He even says its tough for both teams in his quote. So how is he saying its bias against Munster. I actually think that he had more bad decisions against Connacht than Munster, but saying he cant punish Connacht subs when they start a brawl is ridiculous.

Every fan has given out about the reffing recently. I know Leinster like to claim that munster fans are the worst but you only need to look at the match threads of the games that they lost recently. The fans of losing teams blame the ref.

Wegians89

yerrahbah wrote: »

Marmion is 29 made his debut for Ireland in 2014 and has 30 odd caps.
He has 185 appearances for Connacht

Casey is 22, this is the first season where he has gotten regular game time and would have been 14 or 15 when Marmion first played for Ireland.

It would be bad if Marmion wasn't a more rounded player than Casey

Was more so trying to make a case for blade to be involved with Ireland. He’s been the stand out nine for the last couple of seasons, in my opinion and hasn’t been given a chance

Shaka Hislop

Interested Observer wrote: »

I'm a nobody on the internet.

Aren't we all ?

ClanofLams

Akrasia wrote: »

Except he didn’t ignore munsters failings,he said multiple times that Munster didn’t deserve to win that because they performed so poorly and made so many individual errors. In his player ratings he gave the Pack 1 star each and praised the Connacht tight 5 for their ohysicality..

theVersatile wrote: »

"Weekend meltdown" lol. That and the fact that he literally says that JOD held AP first - you're making a bit of a big deal over nothing there.

And whatever about his paid content that Tom points out, there's enough of his tweets there to show that he fully understands Munsters work ons and criticisms - yet you chose to focus on the three or four ref related ones - which he openly admits wasn't the reason they lost.

Did a quick count there, the account had 20 tweets from when it finished on Friday related to the match - 17 talked about the referree, including few video examples. At no point did they say Connacht had decisions they wouldn't like either - if you hadn't saw match but had read Stander comments and followed the red kings account you would be of the belief that was some massive robbery.

That and being extremely sensitive to any criticism qualifies as a bit of a meltdown for me but I don't follow the account, maybe they are like that every time Munster lose.

yerrahbah

Wegians89 wrote: »

Was more so trying to make a case for blade to be involved with Ireland. He’s been the stand out nine for the last couple of seasons, in my opinion and hasn’t been given a chance

John Cooney might have something to say about that

What I would say is that IMO Casey isn't in the Ireland squad because he is in the top 3 scrumhalves right now but rather they are excited about the scrumhalf he may become in a few years and are trying to integrate him as early as possible.

Unfortunately that means there is one place less for the likes of McGrath, Cooney, Blade etc.

Burkie1203

irelandrover wrote: »

If the ref always sides with the defensive team then it could be true what he says. He even says its tough for both teams in his quote. So how is he saying its bias against Munster. I actually think that he had more bad decisions against Connacht than Munster, but saying he cant punish Connacht subs when they start a brawl is ridiculous.

Jack O'Donoghue started it actually. He went after Papaili (whose sole crime was to free himself from a ruck and get into the defensive line) who had zero interest in getting involved with him in off the ball stuff. Even after after score, AP was not interested in getting into a scrap. Then the connacht subs got involved.

If JOD got up and tried to help his team play rugby, and they score, they probably win the game. He held someone in to a ruck, got a push in the head as that person freed themselves and reacted like a petulant d*ck. Cost his team big time

If that try was down the far end and the ref waved play on, would Munster players accept it as a correct decision??? Would they f**k (and rightly so).

Remember, JOD committed an act of foul play off the ball which should supercede an offside penalty yet the ref went back to give munster a prime attacking position 5m from connacht line.

yerrahbah

God I wish there was a Munster match this W/E so we could move on from this ****show

irelandrover

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Jack O'Donoghue started it actually. He went after Papaili (whose sole crime was to free himself from a ruck and get into the defensive line) who had zero interest in getting involved with him in off the ball stuff. Even after after score, AP was not interested in getting into a scrap. Then the connacht subs got involved.

If JOD got up and tried to help his team play rugby, and they score, they probably win the game. He held someone in to a ruck, got a push in the head as that person freed themselves and reacted like a petulant d*ck. Cost his team big time

If that try was down the far end and the ref waved play on, would Munster players accept it as a correct decision??? Would they f**k (and rightly so).

Remember, JOD committed an act of foul play off the ball which should supercede an offside penalty yet the ref went back to give munster a prime attacking position 5m from connacht line.

Honestly i don't care who started it. The ref stated the subs started it, but he couldn't punish them as they were subs. To make that statement is ridiculous.

phog

irelandrover wrote: »

Honestly i don't care who started it. The ref stated the subs started it, but he couldn't punish them as they were subs. To make that statement is ridiculous.

The ref was poor, anyone who watched the game will know that.

Now you can get posters who want to try wind people up and a few other posters might be dragged into their silly game but I think most posters see through the WUMS.

Zzippy

irelandrover wrote: »

Honestly i don't care who started it. The ref stated the subs started it, but he couldn't punish them as they were subs. To make that statement is ridiculous.

He went back (incorrectly) for a Munster penalty 5m out. What do you want, a yellow card for a sub???

irelandrover

Zzippy wrote: »

He went back (incorrectly) for a Munster penalty 5m out. What do you want, a yellow card for a sub???

Yes, if a sub deserves a yellow card for it then they should get a yellow card. To say you cant punish them because they are a sub is wrong.

phog

Zzippy wrote: »

He went back (incorrectly) for a Munster penalty 5m out. What do you want, a yellow card for a sub???

What do you want, subs to be excluded from punishment? It's crazy to try suggest they should exempt form the laws of the game.