Is Ireland's justice system lenient?

starkid

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...so build more prisons and just keep sending people to jail, over and over and over.....

....and this would 'work'? for who?

answer some of the points i raised?

whats your bar like? are we talking only petty crime here? or are we including serious crimes?

tease it out a little. how does releasing a Malcolm mcArthur work for anybody? can you answer that? You know in Norway for people like you always bang on about Norway, they have Eletronic tagging, stringent rules around free legal aid, mandatory and many meetings with government agents and police upon release. They have alot of community service as well. Go on tell us how no deterrent work? ....and this would 'work'? for who?

and no vat on goods, isn't the same as income tax.

RandomViewer

RandomViewer wrote: »

If a child buys an ice lolly they are paying tax, if you want to differentiate income tax from other taxes please state as such,
We aren't getting value for any taxes collected, waste needs to be cut and cronyism needs to be dealt with severely , 10 year sentences, CAB seizing all assets

Yeah I didn't realise I needed such laser precision in the posts I'm writing with a phone during a work break.

I'll keep your suggestion in mind.

Cheers dude.

Wanderer78

RandomViewer wrote: »

If a child buys an ice lolly they are paying tax, if you want to differentiate income tax from other taxes please state as such,
We aren't getting value for any taxes collected, waste needs to be cut and cronyism needs to be dealt with severely , 10 year sentences, CAB seizing all assets

.....theres wastes and inefficiencies occurring in both the public and private sectors, not an easy task with dealing with either

Wanderer78

Jequ0n wrote: »

Until the people paying the taxes are starting to struggle financially and end up bending the rules and end up in one of the new shiny prisons. And then the beasts will roam the streets

beasts already roam the streets, some are actually extremely wealthy

starkid wrote: »

answer some of the points i raised?

whats your bar like? are we talking only petty crime here? or are we including serious crimes?

tease it out a little.

and no vat on goods, isn't the same as income tax.

what questions would you like answered?

im talking all crimes

once again, tax is still tax! yes there are distinct differences between them all, but again, taxes are still taxes!

starkid

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah, some people would start an argument in an empty room.

:rolleyes:

the issue is he can't address points made. He like alot of his ilk put out a position. Thats fair. But they can't argue why. For whom does a killer like Malcolm McArthurs rehabilitation work for? His victims, for society? Serving 30 years for murder, imo is wrong. And the reason is simple. He's taken the life of somebody who probably had 30 more years of life in them, and their family has been torn asunder and lives every day with the crime, repeating it day in and day out. Thats not justice. And i have to pick the extreme example as the argument is often made in bad faith.

Wanderer78

starkid wrote: »

the issue is he can't address points made. He like alot of his ilk put out a position. Thats fair. But they can't argue why. For whom does a killer like Malcolm McArthurs rehabilitation work for? His victims, for society?

a serious attempt must be made to try rehabilitate all criminals, but its important to be aware, we still dont have effect treatment methods for some disorders

RandomViewer

Wanderer78 wrote: »

.....theres wastes and inefficiencies occurring in both the public and private sectors, not an easy task with dealing with either

As an example, theres been multiple cases of local authorities spending millions on projects that are never finished or not fit for purpose, no one gets reprimanded and the money is never recouped, I know it's unlikely but the removal of the job for life in the public service would and least provide some sanction for incompetence,

starkid

Wanderer78 wrote: »

beasts already roam the streets, some are actually extremely wealthy



what questions would you like answered?

im talking all crimes

once again, tax is still tax! yes there are distinct differences between them all, but again, taxes are still taxes!

right least i know its all crimes. Violent rapes, child murder, murder as well as the rest. Good to know. Its funny how people get so outraged at American justice when theres probably over 100-200 million or more who would take a viewpoint like yours as completely vile

if you read my posts you'll see....lets take one. if you don't believe in long sentences...how does releasing a child murderer and rapist benefit society? and in particular their victims, who you know, are part of said society. go on so...does say a Malcolm McArthur deserve to be released after 30 years given that he took a persons right to said 30 years.

RandomViewer

Wanderer78 wrote: »

a serious attempt must be made to try rehabilitate all criminals, but its important to be aware, we still dont have effect treatment methods for some disorders

I think big asylums like they used to have might be part of the solution,

Wanderer78

RandomViewer wrote: »

As an example, theres been multiple cases of local authorities spending millions on projects that are never finished or not fit for purpose, no one gets reprimanded and the money is never recouped, I know it's unlikely but the removal of the job for life in the public service would and least provide some sanction for incompetence,

maybe, but also maybe not, for example, theres evidence to suggest, large fines towards large institutions results in no change. if people are sacked, they will still need to be facilitated elsewhere, in either the public or private sector, failing that, it would be largely welfare. theres also incompetence and wrong doing occurring in the private sector

starkid

Wanderer78 wrote: »

a serious attempt must be made to try rehabilitate all criminals, but its important to be aware, we still dont have effect treatment methods for some disorders

see you can't answer the question....your point is a type of deflection. i didn't ask that.For whom does a killer like Malcolm McArthurs rehabilitation work for? His victims, for society?

the only person it really benefits is the perp themselves. you know the one who put another human in the ground forever.

Wanderer78

starkid wrote: »

if you read my posts you'll see....lets take one. if you don't believe in long sentences...how does releasing a child murderer and rapist benefit society? and in particular their victims, who you know, are part of said society. go on so...does say a Malcolm McArthur deserve to be released after 30 years given that he took a persons right to said 30 years.

right least i know its all crimes. Violent rapes, child murder, murder as well as the rest. Good to know. Its funny how people get so outraged at American justice when theres probably over 100-200 million or more who would take a viewpoint like yours as completely vile.

yes, if the legal system deems that person safe to return to civilisation, that person should indeed be

its terrible isnt, having some sort of forward thinking, that might reduce criminal outcomes, isnt it!

RandomViewer wrote: »

I think big asylums like they used to have might be part of the solution,

perfect breeding ground for dysfunctional outcomes

Wanderer78

starkid wrote: »

see you can't answer the question....your point is a type of deflection. i didn't ask that.For whom does a killer like Malcolm McArthurs rehabilitation work for? His victims, for society?

if a person is successful in rehabilitation, it would hopefully work for all, including victims, but again, we do not know how to deal with some complex disorders, i.e. we do not have true successful rehabilitation programs for them, yet

starkid

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes, if the legal system deems that person safe to return to civilisation, that person should indeed be

its terrible isnt, having some sort of forward thinking, that might reduce criminal outcomes, isnt it!



perfect breeding ground for dysfunctional outcomes

Yes cause the legal system is always right...jesus wept.

Ok good luck in your fantasy world that has no murder and crime...

again we have **** all deterrents here. it would be a different argument if we did. and people like you argue against them in the same way you do prison etc.

for me the victim and their families will always come first in violent crimes.

Wanderer78

starkid wrote: »

Yes cause the legal system is always right...jesus wept.

Ok good luck in your fantasy world that has no murder and crime...

of course the system is not always right, whatever that even means, but we must integrate our major social systems more so, to try properly deal with these issues, in particular our health system, as many crimes are deeply health related

fantasy? thats unusual, im not sure its possible to have a world completely free from crime, certainly not right now anyway, but maybe future generations will figure it out, some how doubt that though, so, once again, ive no clue what you re talking about?

once again, some individuals simply dont care about consequences, i.e. you can threaten them with the death penalty if you like, even over the most petty of crimes, they simply wont care, so 'more consequences' wont work!

Jequ0n

starkid wrote: »

Yes cause the legal system is always right...jesus wept.

for me the victim and their families will always come first in violent crimes.

Eternal victim card? Interesting

starkid

Wanderer78 wrote: »

of course the system is not always right, whatever that even means, but we must integrate our major social systems more so, to try properly deal with these issues, in particular our health system, as many crimes are deeply health related

fantasy? thats unusual, im not sure its possible to have a world completely free from crime, certainly not right now anyway, but maybe future generations will figure it out, some how doubt that though, so, once again, ive no clue what you re talking about?

once again, some individuals simply dont care about consequences, i.e. you can threaten them with the death penalty if you like, even over the most petty of crimes, they simply wont care, so 'more consequences' wont work!

jesus ****ing christ, you said it yourself...."yes, if the legal system deems that person safe to return to civilisation" (so remove your smugness) ....the legal system is the only moral gaurdian of our society? And if it deems it so...ergo you're implying its always correct in its judgement.

you've indicitated you want reduced crime...and you want reduced sentencing. a fantasy land... whats your take on the other deterrents i mentioned? the ones some countries like Norway use? electronic tagging, fines, reduced legal aid, community service, more police? The world will never be free of crime of course, but its also unlikely crime is reduced. Particularly through laizzez faire and weak policies.

But thats not the point of it for many. I accept sentencing doesn't reduce criume, i've made it clear.I only care for the victim. and i don't believe lenient justice systems and all the other stuff does right by anybody. I don't give a **** if somebody like McArthur is rehabilitated.

starkid

Jequ0n wrote: »

Eternal victim card? Interesting

christ this is the sort you're dealing with. you are genuinely warped. yeah the victim and their families have to live with the consequences for eternity in effect. read the side effects of the parents in that blowtorch case. you can sod off if you think they are playing some sort of card. that incident could have life long affects. utterly twisted thinking.

Wanderer78

starkid wrote: »

jesus you said it yourself....yes, if the legal system deems that person safe to return to civilisation....the legal system is the only moral gaurdian of our society?

you've indicitated you want reduced crime...and you want reduced sentencing. whats your take on the other deterrents i mentioned? the ones some countries like Norway use?

But thats not the point of it for many. I accept sentencing doesn't reduce criume, i've made it clear.I only care for the victim

theres a difference between an actual judgment and a moral one, in actual cases, the actual legal system regularly deems individuals safe to return to civilisation, the other judgment is simply a philosophical one, but the legal system alone is not a good one for such judgments, other critical systems, in particular the health system, is required for such decisions

yes i want reduced crime, but not necessarily reduced sentences, again, baring mind, increased sentences dont always lead to reduced crime. can you please explain your understanding of the Norwegian system?

its good that you care for the victim, this is a critical part of the whole process, but we must also care for the criminals, as not doing so, may in fact lead to further crimes by those individuals, highly likely in fact

starkid

Wanderer78 wrote: »

theres a difference between an actual judgment and a moral one, in actual cases, the actual legal system regularly deems individuals safe to return to civilisation, the other judgment is simply a philosophical one, but the legal system alone is not a good one for such judgments, other critical systems, in particular the health system, is required for such decisions

yes i want reduced crime, but not necessarily reduced sentences, again, baring mind, increased sentences dont always lead to reduced crime. can you please explain your understanding of the Norwegian system?

its good that you care for the victim, this is a critical part of the whole process, but we must also care for the criminals, as not doing so, may in fact lead to further crimes by those individuals, highly likely in fact

i've explained some of the system in Norway. Again you've failed to directly answer a relatively easy question. what other deterrents would you accept in this reduction of crime. Increased gardai, cctv, tagging, fines, community service...what? again the thing that pisses me off with people like yourself is that you think it can be done without any of this. Purely educational or on some fantasy long term project of changing the ****ty capitalist sytem we have. In the here and now what are you willing to accept?

I completely disagree in many crimes and you'll never convince people like me as you can't explain why rehabilitation is needed. you haven't been able to give a real reason. i have given you my reason, you have whimsical theory and ideals. If you rob somebody of their life, which on average is 85 years, you deserve a harsher sentence than 30. You've stolen from society. You've ripped apart famalies, communties, all parts of said society. A 50 year sentance is incredinly harsh and steals from a perp, a dignified life, but tough ****. When they get out they'll be most likely too old to reoffend. Again if its the case where the perp is younger, from the worst communties with cycles of violence (has children etc), there could be mitigating circumstances. And miscarriages of justice do happen. Its not completely black and white, i can accept that. you clearly can't or at least haven't indicated you can. and until youtell me what other deterrents are acceptable to you i can't take you seriously.

Its like the SPC and SF's disgust for it. its clear why we have it here in this tiny jurisdiction. sometimes there is necessary evils.

Jequ0n

starkid wrote: »

christ this is the sort you're dealing with. you are genuinely warped. yeah the victim and their families have to live with the consequences for eternity in effect. read the side effects of the parents in that blowtorch case. you can sod off if you think they are playing some sort of card. that incident could have life long affects. utterly twisted thinking.

I am not interested in victim impact statements etc. In fact I don’t think they should ever be allowed in court cases because they are nothing but an attempt to influence judge/ jury.

Sure, nothing works better to fuel a mob than a story involving a baby.

Wanderer78

starkid wrote: »

i've explained some of the system in Norway. Again you've failed to directly answer a relatively easy question. what other deterrents would you accept in this reduction of crime. Increased gardai, cctv, tagging, fines, community service...what? again the thing that pisses me off with people like yourself is that you think it can be done without any of this. Purely educational or on some fantasy long term project of changing the ****ty capitalist sytem we have. In the here and now what are you willing to accept?

I completely disagree in many crimes and you'll never convince people like me as you can't explai nwhy that is the case. you can't. i have given you my reason, you have whimsical theory and ideals.

again, your approach is trying to 'deter', again, some humans simply couldnt give a fcuk what methods you use to do so, theyre simply wired this way, again, you truly could threaten them with the death penalty for steal a single penny jelly, they wouldnt give two fcuks! increased gardai, always a good idea, we re swamped with cctv, tagging, know a chap that was, hes still a criminal! fines, might work for some, but known not to work very well, the threat certainly donest stop me from breaking laws. community service, not a bad idea, but you d have to match people with services, no point sending the wrong type to the wrong thing.

as always, not much of an idea what you re talking about!

we have much clearer ideas of what truly causes many crimes, but we have little or no interest in implementing changes to try prevent them, so.......

starkid

Jequ0n wrote: »

I am not interested in victim impact statements etc. In fact I don’t think they should ever be allowed in court cases because they are nothing but an attempt to influence judge/ jury.

Sure, nothing works better to fuel a mob than a story involving a baby.

its actually viewpoints like your's that rise a mob. its why i used the short form of woke. I'm a centrist, balanced. both sides can be somewhat right, the world is full of grey. But if people want to know why the world is ****ed its because of people like yourself. why the flyover states would vote a trump in. But in terms of violent murder, assaults, rapes, etc victims ****ing matter. i just don't understand your viewpoint at all. to me its completely crazy.

starkid

Wanderer78 wrote: »

again, your approach is trying to 'deter', again, some humans simply couldnt give a fcuk what methods you use to do so, theyre simply wired this way, again, you truly could threaten them with the death penalty for steal a single penny jelly, they wouldnt give two fcuks! increased gardai, always a good idea, we re swamped with cctv, tagging, know a chap that was, hes still a criminal! fines, might work for some, but known not to work very well, the threat certainly donest stop me from breaking laws. community service, not a bad idea, but you d have to match people with services, no point sending the wrong type to the wrong thing.

as always, not much of an idea what you re talking about!

we have much clearer ideas of what truly causes many crimes, but we have little or no interest in implementing changes to try prevent them, so.......

as always, not much of an idea what you re talking about! ...funny stuff

so better to do none of that cause none of it works. wow what a great take. did i ever say they didn't give a ****? i know they don't. which is why the majority of the people should be protected and viewpoints like yours would be i'd reckon in the minority. but you stil lcan't give the reason why certain scumbags deserve rehabilitation and what good it does society.

anyway i think we're done here cause you're clearly trying to wind me up.

Wanderer78

starkid wrote: »

as always, not much of an idea what you re talking about! ...funny stuff

so better to do none of that cause none of it works. wow what a great take.

anyway i think we're done here cause you're clearly a wum

shur i know....

again, can you give me a working example of your methods?

...and what the hell is a wum? ....and im the one with dyslexia!

starkid

Wanderer78 wrote: »

shur i know....

again, can you give me a working example of your methods?

...and what the hell is a wum? ....and im the one with dyslexia!

there's plenty of countries that do the above. they're deterrents they do ****ing work. I mean the whole New York crime thing is actually real you know.

In an Irish sense who knows. Our gun crime was quite high for such a small jurisdiction and then they brought in more armed gardai and OT. so theres two off the top of my head. of course people don't give a **** in these places still, but it would be far worse if we just said ah shur...what can u do...

Wanderer78

starkid wrote: »

there's plenty of countries that do the above. they're deterrents they do ****ing work. I mean the whole New York crime thing is actually real you know.

In an Irish sense who knows. Our gun crime was quite high for such a small jurisdiction and then they brought in more armed gardai and OT. so theres two off the top of my head. of course people don't give a **** in these places still, but it would be far worse if we just said ah shur...what can u do...

....once again, the 'deterrent' approach simply doesnt work for some humans, it really really doesnt, they simply just move on to greener pastures, we dont know what to truly do with these individuals, but we have a very good understanding of others....

Jequ0n

starkid wrote: »

its actually viewpoints like your's that rise a mob. its why i used the short form of woke. I'm a centrist, balanced. both sides can be somewhat right, the world is full of grey. But if people want to know why the world is ****ed its because of people like yourself. why the flyover states would vote a trump in. But in terms of violent murder, assaults, rapes, etc victims ****ing matter. i just don't understand your viewpoint at all. to me its completely crazy.

I am probably the least likely candidate for the woke camp but thank you very much.

No the victim impact statement should not influence the sentence. So just because one victim copes with the same crime worse than another one means that the sentence should be higher? I’d argue the sentence should be based on the actual crime and should be the same. But that does not happen when sob stories come into play and remove objectivity.

pipelaser

Wait until you see the sentencing for this case and it will tell you all you need to know about how lenient the system is.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0518/1222339-court-children/

Geuze

Here is another example:

two criminals, 100 convictions each.

Caught red-handed in Cavan.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/three-burglary-gang-members-arrested-after-quad-bike-chase-40445353.html

If we had a policy of, say, 100 convictions = 10 years in jail, then they could not have committed this crime.

Wanderer78

pipelaser wrote: »

Wait until you see the sentencing for this case and it will tell you all you need to know about how lenient the system is.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0518/1222339-court-children/

oh ffs, please educate yourself about complex psychological conditions such as psychosis, its relatively common, and a close loved one may someday experience it, and if they do, they ll need your help, immediately

pipelaser

Wanderer78 wrote: »

oh ffs, please educate yourself about complex psychological conditions such as psychosis, its relatively common, and a close loved one may someday experience it, and if they do, they ll need your help, immediately

All these family mass killings seem to involve someone who has a history of mental illness, but where do you draw the line?
Does this mean that anyone, who at any point has taken anti depressants or has been committed to institutional care has an excuse to carry out repeated calculated murder attempts as described in the article? As you say it's relatively common, but you dont hear of mass killings as a direct proportion.
I dont think it's a case of educating oneself on different levels of psychosis, it's about finding the appropriate justice given the facts. I doubt she'll face any repercussions and will have the oppurtuinity to start a new life somewhere else before long.

Wanderer78

pipelaser wrote: »

All these family mass killings seem to involve someone who has a history of mental illness, but where do you draw the line?
Does this mean that anyone, who at any point has taken anti depressants or has been committed to institutional care has an excuse to carry out repeated calculated murder attempts as described in the article? As you say it's relatively common, but you dont hear of mass killings as a direct proportion.
I dont think it's a case of educating oneself on different levels of psychosis, it's about finding the appropriate justice given the facts. I doubt she'll face any repercussions and will have the oppurtuinity to start a new life somewhere else before long.

...its clearly obvious from this story, its an horrendous situation for a family, most criminal behavior is linked to complex disorders, including psychosis, we know this, we have known this for a very long time, yet, we still do little or nothing about it......

I'd say that blowtorch lad is a hero to some in this thread.

pipelaser

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...its clearly obvious from this story, its an horrendous situation for a family, most criminal behavior is linked to complex disorders, including psychosis, we know this, we have known this for a very long time, yet, we still do little or nothing about it......

We do nothing about it, I hear ya on that, it's a societial problem.
But the question remains, how do you tell the difference between someone carrying out the murders because their mental illness is so bad that they were completely out of control, or did they do it out of spite, badness, giving on their children or what. She was able to kill everyone she wanted-except herself. I think its revealing in how she suddenly didnt seem to have the heart for it.

I hate to sound harsh, and I know it's a sensitive issue. No one sets out to destroy their family, but some somehow manage it.

jmayo

pipelaser wrote: »

Wait until you see the sentencing for this case and it will tell you all you need to know about how lenient the system is.

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0518/1222339-court-children/

Ahh jaysus that is not your normal criminal behaviour.

I am all for very tough sentencing for rape, GBH, attempted murder, murder and most of the manslaughters (most of the ones found guilty of this are pure murderers and it is mostly a cop out to say it wasn't premeditated or accidental - ultimate being the PIRA scum that unloaded an AK47 into a Garda), but this woman is mentally ill.
She should, and probably for her own good, spend the rest of her life in a psychiatric hospital.
It was a great pity the paramedics managed to save her.

Geuze wrote: »

Here is another example:

two criminals, 100 convictions each.

Caught red-handed in Cavan.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/three-burglary-gang-members-arrested-after-quad-bike-chase-40445353.html

If we had a policy of, say, 100 convictions = 10 years in jail, then they could not have committed this crime.

Ahh the poor pets are battling heroin.

Fook them and the quad the rode out on.

jmayo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...its clearly obvious from this story, its an horrendous situation for a family, most criminal behavior is linked to complex disorders, including psychosis, we know this, we have known this for a very long time, yet, we still do little or nothing about it......

Ahh bullshyte.
Why do people always have to find some mental illness tag to excuse scummy behaviour and criminality.

Some fookers are just lazy and don't want to work to get something when they can just thieve for anything they want.
Yes some are drug users, but again that can be just down to circumstance of life rather than some mental illness.

Most shoplifters are not suffering from some deep psychosis or born kleptomaniacs.
They just want to nick stuff and not have to pay for it.
Also they nick stuff to sell on as a living and to often pay for their drug habits.

Likewise those fellows travelling around the country continously robbing and thieving tools and equipment from farmers and builders are not suffering from some mental illness.
Unless you count laziness and an unwillingness to get a proper job yet expect to get stuff in life for free as a mental illness. :rolleyes:

Wanderer78

pipelaser wrote:

I hate to sound harsh, and I know it's a sensitive issue. No one sets out to destroy their family, but some somehow manage it.

Don't try use logic in such situations, because they are not logical situations, such psychological issues are so complex, we simply don't truly understand them, but we do have a better understanding than the past. Speak to someone that has experienced such a condition, they sound truly terrifying, a complete detachment from reality, where anything is possible, terrifying stuff, I know of kids that have experienced psychosis, scary scary stuff

Wanderer78

jmayo wrote:

I am all for very tough sentencing for rape, GBH, attempted murder, murder and most of the manslaughters (most of the ones found guilty of this are pure murderers and it is mostly a cop out to say it wasn't premeditated or accidental - ultimate being the PIRA scum that unloaded an AK47 into a Garda), but this woman is mentally ill. She should, and probably for her own good, spend the rest of her life in a psychiatric hospital. It was a great pity the paramedics managed to save her.

Many psychological issues, including psychosis, are detectable and treatable, at an early stage, it is very possible she was showing signs of severe distress prior to these acts. She is someone's daughter, you may need to check in with your empathy!

jmayo wrote:

Fook them and the quad the rode out on.

Yup, that's that empathy issue again!

jmayo wrote:

Ahh bullshyte. Why do people always have to find some mental illness tag to excuse scummy behaviour and criminality.

Plenty of research there to back all this up, most, if not all criminals have underlying psychological issues and disorders, many detectable at an early age, but.......

Dyr

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...its clearly obvious from this story, its an horrendous situation for a family, most criminal behavior is linked to complex disorders, including psychosis, we know this, we have known this for a very long time, yet, we still do little or nothing about it......

Really? Most criminals I know come from families of criminals and their kids will be criminals, psychosis is not a culture.

On the fourth offence, the sham should be getting sent down for 12 years, 10 guaranteed as prison time

Offence after that 17 years, 15 guaranteed.

Keep em out of harms way so normal people can have a bit of a breather. Watch the crime rates drop.

Wanderer78

Bambi wrote:

Really? Most criminals I know come from families of criminals and their kids will be criminals, psychosis is not a culture.

Yup, many disorders are hereditary, including my own, nope, psychosis is an horrendous psychological condition, and is probably preventable in many cases

BronsonTB

OP - Yes (TOO LENIENT)
Sickening poor sentence, judge was limited because of the system. Then update the system!

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0519/1222656-dublin-stabbing-jail-term/

BronsonTB

BronsonTB wrote: »

OP - Yes
Sickening poor sentence, judge was limited because of the system

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2021/0519/1222656-dublin-stabbing-jail-term/

Another hero to a few posters here. Probably think the victim should be locked up.

Jequ0n

The psychosis one is interesting, I’m curious to see how it will pan out.
I totally agree that someone suffering a full blown psychotic episode is not themselves and has a very warped view of the world around them. However, I wonder why she didn’t chose to get help if she noticed that things were getting bad again. Then again nobody here knows any details.

"Talbot has 82 previous convictions, including convictions for assault causing harm, violent behaviour in a garda station, criminal damage, possession of knives and public order offences."

Sure god help him. Salt of the earth. Etc.

jmayo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Many psychological issues, including psychosis, are detectable and treatable, at an early stage, it is very possible she was showing signs of severe distress prior to these acts. She is someone's daughter, you may need to check in with your empathy!
.

Yes she is someone 's daughter and someone's wife and she used to be someone's mother.

I don't feel sorry for her, but for her poor husband, his family and her family.

She will never be a functioning person again.
How can she.

That is why I am saying she would be as well off dead.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

jmayo wrote: »

Ahh the poor pets are battling heroin.

Fook them and the quad the rode out on.

Yup, that's that empathy issue again!

.

Empathy my hole.
They are serial offenders who don't give a flying fook about anyone and you think we should have empathy for them.
Rest assured they have already used the heroin as a get out of jail in the past.
The taxpayers pays for their treatment, pays for their methadone and then on top of that pays for their free legal aid.

So you know what you can do with your empathy for them skangers.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Plenty of research there to back all this up, most, if not all criminals have underlying psychological issues and disorders, many detectable at an early age, but.......

Ah more of the bullshyte.
Any excuse.
Some people are just skangers.
Some people are just thieves and some are just murderers who don't give two shytes about anyone.

Yes there are those that have psychological issues, some are born psychopaths and sociopaths that eventually lose it.
But some just don't care and want stuff the easy way i.e. without working for it.

Jequ0n

jmayo wrote: »

Yes she is someone 's daughter and someone's wife and she used to be someone's mother.

I don't feel sorry for her, but for her poor husband, his family and her family.

So many question marks on this one.
Seems that many people were suspicious and concerned but that little could be done preventatively their end. It suggests that there were loopholes that can probably be closed if things are not brushed under the carpet.

More than one person missed something there

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

"Talbot has 82 previous convictions, including convictions for assault causing harm, violent behaviour in a garda station, criminal damage, possession of knives and public order offences."

Sure god help him. Salt of the earth. Etc.

In what other country would that person be walking the streets?

I honestly can't think of one. Sweden maybe at a push?

That's Parnell St. Gas when you think about if you are in Dublin City Center at any given time how many double or triple digit conviction holding types are near you and the danger they pose.

starkid

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Many psychological issues, including psychosis, are detectable and treatable, at an early stage, it is very possible she was showing signs of severe distress prior to these acts. She is someone's daughter, you may need to check in with your empathy!



Yup, that's that empathy issue again!



Plenty of research there to back all this up, most, if not all criminals have underlying psychological issues and disorders, many detectable at an early age, but.......

will you stop overegging the empathy card. the other tragedy where the father who murdered his family...would you say the same to the victims family who demaded he be removed from any services and plots and not to be lauded in the press as you seem to be doing with this case? where's your empathy for them? sometimes empathy is warrented, sometimes it is not. if the person in this one was male, there would be far less sympathy. I don't think we are allowed discuss ongoing cases so i won't. but murder suicides are that, and in some cases are utterly dreadful and selfish acts. As somebody who suffers greatly from mental health issues and suicidal ideation, i would never ever ever involve others. We can use the excuse of mental health in every case. Its an easy out. Only in the most extreme cases is it really viable. Complete physcosis and one or two others.

Nearly every human being on the planet probably displays some sort of mental illness at some varying level of scale. There is a huge issue coming down the tracks with over prescribing mental illness (i've suffered from it for decades). you could literally paint every crime as having mental illness as its cause. but we don't for very obvious reasons.

two perps with over 100 convictions between them. as he saids **** them and the quad they rode in on. they deserve to be jailed to protect society from such ignorant, deplorable, selfish *****. it could be 4-5 years of not having to deal with them. in those intervening years we can try to do stuff to reduce crime like extra police and all the rest. but i suppose you'd like to see them rack up another 100 in the hope of helping them out. Shure whats another 100 convictions.

after our discussion yesterday i had a think about it all. i mean look i'm kind fo agreeing with you in one way. if i grew up in some of these bad areas i would most likely be in trouble, i get it. but i was watching this after the debate yesterday. sums up my viewpoint. and i will say its a long game, and its capitalism that is driving alot of it. theres no right way. you're trying to say you have the answer with rehabilitation and lax enough rules (is my take) ...you don't. but nor do i with my viewpoint with harsher deterrents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYXNdELqCe4&fbclid=IwAR0_64LwR7Is0EDyf6rHrglwv-NCJmtaYIArXCFrUiyK2Uxl_jRGaB8muxs

Mike Murdock

Mike Murdock wrote: »

Worse still in the Manuela case, the mother****er that raped and killed her was out on bail for raping another foreign girl.

A sick joke.

And had already killed someone... part of a group that beat someone up in Eyre Sq and killed him... got a Manslaughter for that IIRC which is silly as it was an unprovoked attack so how could it ever be.