What’s the best diet for weight loss ?

LeakyLime

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah this is it. There are no rules apart from the fact that burning fewer calories than you consume results in weight loss. There are different ways to achieve that calorie deficit and finding one that suits you and is sustainable is important.

Weight gain and weight loss is also hormonal and this has long been accepted in the field of endocrinology (science of hormones).


Again a great example is when women hit menopause, while maintaining the same diet, the can put on weight more readily. This is not to do with calorie intake - it is hormonal.

LeakyLime

Xander10 wrote: »

Is putting porridge in there correct?

Yes porridge oats are carbs and are broken down into sugar in the digestive system. The pancreas then produces more insulin which is a hormone that allows blood sugar be absorbed into cells.


All calories are not equal.

bladespin

LeakyLime wrote: »

Weight gain and weight loss is also hormonal and this has long been accepted in the field of endocrinology (science of hormones).


Again a great example is when women hit menopause, while maintaining the same diet, the can put on weight more readily. This is not to do with calorie intake - it is hormonal.

Metabolism slowing with age too, needs to be taken into account, that said calorific deficit is the driver for weight lost in the vast majority, if that’s not working then we should for reasons, hence the advice to seek medical advice before starting any diet or exercise regime.

Alf Veedersane

Someone go tell the athletes who have carbs that they are doing it wrong

Beechwoodspark

Just on the mention of Gary Taubes and the Atkins type diets - my experience below...

Read Gary taubes articles and watched some YouTube videos.

Very interesting presenting style, answers for everything, nice attitude, all “Seemed” to make sense....

So with the zeal of a new convert I Tried doing a full on keto diet 2 years ago

Breakfast-bacon/sausage/Turkey, eggs (fried or scrambled) poached is even better if you have the time

Lunch - usually either chicken or fish and plenty greens. Seasoning (pepper and salt, dried herbs and chili flakes all that good stuff ) is your friend

Hot sauces too if that’s your thang...

Dinner -protein -usually either beef (various cuts or burgers) or chicken/pork/lamb and even venison at times.

Accompanied with fresh greens or crunchy salads

Snacks-various nuts (cashew,peanuts,pistachio) and beef jerky.

I completely cut potatoes rice pasta and noodles and bread out of the diet and cut down on sweet cake and choc as much as I could

Someone said to me to cut out beer and switch to liqueurs but I didn’t.

Drank approx 8 cans a week (literally over 7 days) don’t think it affected the diet.

Beer was my ONLY “indulgence” on this diet.

I kept it up for a few weeks but found it SO hard to maintain

I used to go on long walks runs and bicycle trips and would be nearly bet with the hunger following it.

A feeling I was going to faint, light headed woozy dizziness

I felt like I was a danger out driving for example. All sorts of scenarios played out in my mind.

Keep in mind pre this diet I was a regular marathon runner and lifted weights i even did triathlons.

Experienced ravenous hunger be times.

This would strike at random times of the day with no Mercy.

Half way through this period I attended a wedding.

I ate small bowl of cream of veg soup

I ate salmon no spuds a small portion of brown rice and some side salad

Small slice of cake yes I won’t deny it

I had at that stage swapped out my usual beer for gin and slimline tonic with dash of lime

I experienced huge hunger later that evening and I ended up sneaking out of the reception and over to a local deli and getting 2 packets of baked ham and eating them walking back to the wedding.

This isn’t right I thought.

Few more g and ts and I plucked up courage and I spoke to a nurse fellow wedding guest about it all. Laid it all out there for her to assess

She gave me an answer I knew deep down was true

she sternly said my body was sending me strong signals I am not nourishing it right and that’s what the hunger pangs are about.

Of course i was in denial mode. Arrogant “Gary taubes is the man, I will stick with this” attitude.

In my head I knew better - so I thought - so preservered on with the diet regardless ...

Would wake up middle of the night craving Mars bars and snickers Maltesers etc that is so not like “normal” me

And noticed I was becoming irritable and morose and no motivation.

Also had lots of stomach issues such as heart burn and yes constipation too.

My wife also noticed the change in me and after a heart to heart I just stopped doing it as I was depressed to be quite honest

I since looked into taubes and co with a more sceptical eye and there’s lots of stuff critiquing and debunking his ideas online - from dieticians and medical experts

Don’t get me wrong I like Gary but don’t ever forget he’s a journalist.

Not a medic and has no medical qualifications. Also, Gary does events for various dodgy (some say cult like) groups.

All I’m saying is don’t repeat my mistake of thinking keto/extreme low carb is the “be all and end all”

Alf Veedersane

Taubes conducted a study in 2018 that compared low carb and low fat. Protein was consistent. Average weight loss was 11.7 lbs vs 13.2 lbs but there was a large variance across the board that's quite similar in both instances. There was little difference between the two and insulin production was not found to be a predictor of weight loss.

One factor that would have mattered was food quality. Minimal processed food where possible.

The results don't really support Taubes theories.

But what they do support is that you can lose weight on a diet of good food regardless of whether its low carb or not.

https://examine.com/nutrition/low-fat-vs-low-carb-for-weight-loss/

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2673150

El_Duderino 09

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Someone go tell the athletes who have carbs that they are doing it wrong

Athletes trying to lose weight or athletes trying to achieve peak performance?

Alf Veedersane

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Athletes trying to lose weight or athletes trying to achieve peak performance?

Both because carbs aren't a bad food choice.

LeakyLime

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Someone go tell the athletes who have carbs that they are doing it wrong

The average person is not an athlete.

Alf Veedersane

LeakyLime wrote: »

The average person is not an athlete.

They have hormones.

The average man is not a menopausal woman.

Anyway, I've already linked to the Taubes study

LeakyLime

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Just on the mention of Gary Taubes and the Atkins type diets - my experience below...

Read Gary taubes articles and watched some YouTube videos.

Very interesting presenting style, answers for everything, nice attitude, all “Seemed” to make sense....

So with the zeal of a new convert I Tried doing a full on keto diet 2 years ago

Breakfast-bacon/sausage/Turkey, eggs (fried or scrambled) poached is even better if you have the time

Lunch - usually either chicken or fish and plenty greens. Seasoning (pepper and salt, dried herbs and chili flakes all that good stuff ) is your friend

Hot sauces too if that’s your thang...

Dinner -protein -usually either beef (various cuts or burgers) or chicken/pork/lamb and even venison at times.

Accompanied with fresh greens or crunchy salads

Snacks-various nuts (cashew,peanuts,pistachio) and beef jerky.

I completely cut potatoes rice pasta and noodles and bread out of the diet and cut down on sweet cake and choc as much as I could

Someone said to me to cut out beer and switch to liqueurs but I didn’t.

Drank approx 8 cans a week (literally over 7 days) don’t think it affected the diet.

Beer was my ONLY “indulgence” on this diet.

I kept it up for a few weeks but found it SO hard to maintain

I used to go on long walks runs and bicycle trips and would be nearly bet with the hunger following it.

A feeling I was going to faint, light headed woozy dizziness

I felt like I was a danger out driving for example. All sorts of scenarios played out in my mind.

Keep in mind pre this diet I was a regular marathon runner and lifted weights i even did triathlons.

Experienced ravenous hunger be times.

This would strike at random times of the day with no Mercy.

Half way through this period I attended a wedding.

I ate small bowl of cream of veg soup

I ate salmon no spuds a small portion of brown rice and some side salad

Small slice of cake yes I won’t deny it

I had at that stage swapped out my usual beer for gin and slimline tonic with dash of lime

I experienced huge hunger later that evening and I ended up sneaking out of the reception and over to a local deli and getting 2 packets of baked ham and eating them walking back to the wedding.

This isn’t right I thought.

Few more g and ts and I plucked up courage and I spoke to a nurse fellow wedding guest about it all. Laid it all out there for her to assess

She gave me an answer I knew deep down was true

she sternly said my body was sending me strong signals I am not nourishing it right and that’s what the hunger pangs are about.

Of course i was in denial mode. Arrogant “Gary taubes is the man, I will stick with this” attitude.

In my head I knew better - so I thought - so preservered on with the diet regardless ...

Would wake up middle of the night craving Mars bars and snickers Maltesers etc that is so not like “normal” me

And noticed I was becoming irritable and morose and no motivation.

Also had lots of stomach issues such as heart burn and yes constipation too.

My wife also noticed the change in me and after a heart to heart I just stopped doing it as I was depressed to be quite honest

I since looked into taubes and co with a more sceptical eye and there’s lots of stuff critiquing and debunking his ideas online - from dieticians and medical experts

Don’t get me wrong I like Gary but don’t ever forget he’s a journalist.

Not a medic and has no medical qualifications. Also, Gary does events for various dodgy (some say cult like) groups.

All I’m saying is don’t repeat my mistake of thinking keto/extreme low carb is the “be all and end all”

Thanks for sharing - that is very interesting.


I hope you have found a diet that works for you since.



Beer, unfortunately, has to go when you're doing keto. It's the worst alcoholic beverage carbs-wise. By continuing to drink it, you probably worsened the cravings.


Low-carb diets are used to treat more and more illnesses e.g. epilepsy, PCOS, diabetes, symptoms of menopause, etc, and they are effective.



And it's not just Taubes though, there are loads of doctors and scientists advocating for a low-carb diet.



I'm still eating most fruit (not the super sweet ones like banana and grapes) and veg so not strict keto myself - will see how it goes. I'm very open to it. It's not like the prevailing nutritional guidelines haven't been proven wrong in the past! (margarine, eggs?)

Alf Veedersane

I'm not against keto or low carb. Just against the idea that it's the only way for weight loss.

El_Duderino 09

LeakyLime wrote: »

The average person is not an athlete.

Isn't this the point? The average person is not an athlete physically or in terms of level of activity.

LeakyLime

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I'm not against keto or low carb. Just against the idea that it's the only way for weight loss.

I don't think it is the only way either.



But there are certain people who, for hormonal reasons, fatten easily. The insulin (which is a hormone) wreaks havoc with their metabolism.



The calories in, calories out is not for everyone either.

LeakyLime

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Isn't this the point? The average person is not an athlete physically or in terms of level of activity.

An athlete needs more energy, they will burn off the carbs they consume (unless they have serious hormonal issues).



So carbs may work for them.



However, our ancestors survived on a high-fat diet and unfortunately, healthy fats were derided in the 20th century and by the experts.



There seems to be a slow realisation, that fats are good and high-fat diets are being recommended more and more.

bb1234567

In my experience the people who hold up keto as the panacea for weight loss have in the past had very unhealthy addictive relationship to food that they found hard to control. And I'm happy for them that they've found an effective way around that hurdle, but plenty of people, majority of people, can and have been able to lose weight in a healthy and sustainable way while consuming carbs, there's no two ways about that

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Someone go tell the athletes who have carbs that they are doing it wrong

I'm not an athlete, if I lower my carb intake, I lose weight.

jam_mac_jam

bb1234567 wrote: »

In my experience the people who hold up keto as the panacea for weight loss have in the past had very unhealthy addictive relationship to food that they found hard to control. And I'm happy for them that they've found an effective way around that hurdle, but plenty of people, majority of people, can and have been able to lose weight in a healthy and sustainable way while consuming carbs, there's no two ways about that

Not me. I have never had an addiction to food or difficulty to control. I like tasty food but never had a particularly bad relationship with it.

Was a vegetarian for years. Have always eaten quite healthily. Maybe sweet things once or twice a week. I just put on weight over time so I lost it by going keto. And maintain by limiting carbs.

It works for me. However it doesn't suit everyone. I don't really see the need to make generalizations about it. You could say the same about people who calorie count. I am sure plenty of them have issues with food.

Alf Veedersane

LeakyLime wrote: »

I don't think it is the only way either.



But there are certain people who, for hormonal reasons, fatten easily. The insulin (which is a hormone) wreaks havoc with their metabolism.



The calories in, calories out is not for everyone either.

Taubes study looked at insulin in relation to weight loss and found it wasn't a factor.

But that may well be because of the food quality.

Which would suggest food quality and quanitity are both important.

Alf Veedersane

bubblypop wrote: »

I'm not an athlete, if I lower my carb intake, I lose weight.

And how does that impact on your calories overall?

Alf Veedersane

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Not me. I have never had an addiction to food or difficulty to control. I like tasty food but never had a particularly bad relationship with it.

Was a vegetarian for years. Have always eaten quite healthily. Maybe sweet things once or twice a week. I just put on weight over time so I lost it by going keto. And maintain by limiting carbs.

It works for me. However it doesn't suit everyone. I don't really see the need to make generalizations about it. You could say the same about people who calorie count. I am sure plenty of them have issues with food.

Fundamentally, what works for you, works for you. Whatever works, within reason.

I just don't think that presenting carbs as a bad food choice that will hinder weight loss is correct.

I'm not saying that's what you said by the way.

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

And how does that impact on your calories overall?

I understand what you are saying. However, eating carbs I find I eat more. I cannot stay full and therefore my calorie intake goes up when I eat carbs. Not just from the carbs, but from the extra amounts of food I eat.
I find protein keeps me happy and I don't get the massive drops in blood sugar that I do when I regularly eat carbs.

So, if I was to keep eating the carbs, but eating a calorie deficient diet, I would find it much harder to maintain and likely to binge far more.

El_Duderino 09

Any opinions on fasting? 16-8 and 5-2 seem popular for weight loss.

I've even seem people espouse the benefits of occasional 48 and even 72 hour fasts for weight loss and other health benefits. They talk a lot about insulin reduction and autophagy as benefits of fasting.

LeakyLime

bubblypop wrote: »

I understand what you are saying. However, eating carbs I find I eat more. I cannot stay full and therefore my calorie intake goes up when I eat carbs. Not just from the carbs, but from the extra amounts of food I eat.
I find protein keeps me happy and I don't get the massive drops in blood sugar that I do when I regularly eat carbs.

So, if I was to keep eating the carbs, but eating a calorie deficient diet, I would find it much harder to maintain and likely to binge far more.

I would agree. Carbs cause cravings. The digestive system breaks down the carb and creates glucose, aka sugar. It's addictive like the sugar we consume in sweets and other confectionary.

On top of this, insulin levels increase and this hormone is a vital part of fat creation.

jam_mac_jam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Fundamentally, what works for you, works for you. Whatever works, within reason.

I just don't think that presenting carbs as a bad food choice that will hinder weight loss is correct.

I'm not saying that's what you said by the way.

I completely agree with you. It's really not suitable for a lot of people and lots of people find it too restrictive. It's not magic and just works by restricting calories.

It's personal taste as well. I find a lot of carbs tasteless so would rather give that up then foods.

LeakyLime

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Any opinions on fasting? 16-8 and 5-2 seem popular for weight loss.

I've even seem people espouse the benefits of occasional 48 and even 72 hour fasts for weight loss and other health benefits. They talk a lot about insulin reduction and autophagy as benefits of fasting.

Actually the ' breakfast is the most important meal of the day' is another example of how a lot of the nutritional information of the 20th century is false. Cereal (carbs) for breakfast became a must-east and obesity levels rose accordingly

I fast naturally from 7pm to 10.30pm. I'm not hungry in the morning, never was. I think it has helped to keep my weight in check throughout the years.

bb1234567

LeakyLime wrote: »

Actually the ' breakfast is the most important meal of the day' is another example of how a lot of the nutritional information of the 20th century is false. Cereal (carbs) for breakfast became a must-east and obesity levels rose accordingly

I fast naturally from 7pm to 10.30pm. I'm not hungry in the morning, never was. I think it has helped to keep my weight in check throughout the years.

Lol, few confounding factors there aren't there? The amount of people sitting in an office all day rose, and obesity rose accordingly, the amount of people who worked in labour intensive jobs dropped drastically, and obesity levels rose accordingly. To blame it all on carbs or breakfast ceral is just ridiculously oversimplistic

Alf Veedersane

bubblypop wrote: »

I understand what you are saying. However, eating carbs I find I eat more. I cannot stay full and therefore my calorie intake goes up when I eat carbs. Not just from the carbs, but from the extra amounts of food I eat.
I find protein keeps me happy and I don't get the massive drops in blood sugar that I do when I regularly eat carbs.

So, if I was to keep eating the carbs, but eating a calorie deficient diet, I would find it much harder to maintain and likely to binge far more.

I completely get that and that's what works for people.

It's just the notion that carbs = weight gain because carbs.

If I reduced carbs, I'd be largely reducing my ginger nut biscuit intake :pac:

Alf Veedersane

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I completely get that and that's what works for people.

It's just the notion that carbs = weight gain because carbs.

If I reduced carbs, I'd be largely reducing my ginger nut biscuit intake :pac:

Ah yeah, doesn't work for everybody for sure!!
I was also a sufferer with ibs or symptoms like it for years and now I find I don't have the issues anymore, thankfully!

I always loved jelly sweets though.......

LeakyLime

bb1234567 wrote: »

Lol, few confounding factors there aren't there? The amount of people sitting in an office day rose, and obesit rose accordingly, the amount of people who worked in labour intensive jobs dropped drastically, and obesity levels rose accordingly. To blame it all on carbs or breakfast ceral is just ridiculously oversimplistic

Yes highly simplistic. Breakfast cereal is just an example of how carbohydrates led to the obesity crisis we have today.

The current guidelines (with recommended intake about 55 - 60%) don't seem to be helping the current obesity crisis - we're getting heavier by the year. Carbs , which break down to sugar in our system, are highly addictive.