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Antique firearms licensing/law/legality

  • 08-05-2021 8:31pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,712 ✭✭✭ Rows Grower


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    MOD NOTE

    Split off from this thread.

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    Cass wrote: »
    No. The law is actually clear on this. You cannot possess a firearm without a license and the law list what it defines as firearms. Doesn't make sense but neither does a lot of the law regarding firearms.

    By very careful. Check the location of the items. Most would/may not be in Ireland. In other countries the law is not as strict and there is no restrictions on owning such items with or without a gun license. Ireland is very strict when it comes to gun laws so we're the exception. IOW it might be legal for the person to sell it, but not for you to own/possess it let alone import it.

    The other part of that may involve the person selling it not knowing such items may require a gun license, even if its in Ireland. They may not get in trouble for selling but you may for buying.

    Under Irish law the onus is all on you, as the buyer/licensee, to know if you need a license, what kind of license, and to have it. So the courts won't single you out for persecution, but they won't look favorably on firearms offences.

    This is incorrect, antique firearms do not require a licence in Ireland provided they are for ornamental use.

    You can check this with the Department of Justice.

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    This is incorrect,
    No its not.
    antique firearms
    What are they, in law?
    do not require a licence in Ireland provided they are for ornamental use.
    Wrong.

    If its an ornament its not a firearm, and if its capable of firing it requires a firearms license.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭ Richard308


    Cass wrote:
    What are they, in law?

    Wrong.

    If its an ornament its not a firearm, and if its capable of firing it requires a firearms license.


    I believe but I am open to correction, but “ornaments”also known as obsolete calibers are capable of being fired, do not need a firearms license but a superintendents authorization


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Richard308 wrote: »
    I believe but I am open to correction, but “ornaments”also known as obsolete calibers
    No such definition in the firearm acts. Antique or obsolete.
    ........ are capable of being fired, do not need a firearms license but a superintendents authorization
    Ornaments not capable of firing a bullet/projectile, like starting pistols, need only the authorisation, but if it can be fired it requires a firearms license as per the Commissioner's guidelines (redirected from Justice Website):
    Some people will occasionally wish to purchase an old or antique firearm, or one which
    is valuable because of its historical significance, for no reason other than as an
    investment. This may sometimes be regarded as 'good reason' having regard to all the
    circumstances, and if capable of being fired, these firearms will require a firearms
    certificate.
    The authorisation/ornament status only applies to actual antiques and any modern reproductions are not exempt and require a firearms license also.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,534 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Richard308 wrote: »
    Can you imagine being before a judge and saying this 5/8 screw is a firearm. Poor prosecution would probably be held in contempt
    No one is saying a screw will have you before a judge and if it ever came to that the judge would most definitely dismiss the case.

    The absurdity is the law.
    • A NV scope is a firearm. So to have just the scope, no gun, needs a firearms license.
    • The guy mentioned previously in court over a bullet display. Legally speaking he had to have licenses for all calibers, but case was dismissed/thrown out.
    • The toy crossbows that kids use, with the sucker darts. Legally they are a crossbow and hence a restricted firearm requiring a restricted license. You'll never see a kid before the courts over it.

    Common sense will, and should, have a large part in this. The OP asked about the legal stance and he got his answers, however what they do after that is their own business.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Richard308 wrote: »
    I believe but I am open to correction, but “ornaments”also known as obsolete calibers are capable of being fired, do not need a firearms license but a superintendents authorization

    Nope!! There is no such thing in Irish firearms law as an obsolete caliber, that was in the UK, and that is now gone as well, as criminals decided to get dodgy gun dealers to reload this obsolete ammo for them to be able to off each other.
    There is a SUGGESTION in the Garda guidelines to treat p original PRE Unitary cartridge firearms[IE muzzle loaders] as antiques and license-free that were made before 1872[?] However modern copies of them must be licensed as any other firearm.
    The supers authorization is for a deactivated [or more correctly in Irish firearms legal-speak a defective firearm] to current EU standards.IE a welded up lump of metal.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    I looked into this before, and was told by the gardai that any firearm that fires a cartridge requires a licence as far as they were concerned. Only original muzzle loaders would be considered as a non-licencable firearm, not modern reproductions made by the likes of Pedersoli etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Cant figure that one out at all. A modern repro doesn't shoot any faster than an original muzzleloader,and is less likely to explode or fall apart than a 175 plus-year-old gun might.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ solarwinds


    tudderone wrote: »
    I looked into this before, and was told by the gardai that any firearm that fires a cartridge requires a licence as far as they were concerned. Only original muzzle loaders would be considered as a non-licencable firearm, not modern reproductions made by the likes of Pedersoli etc.


    Just curious, but if you have an authorisation for gun powder can you then use your muzzle loader, as it then becomes a functioning firearm. Would it then have to be licenced as such.
    How do the re enactment lads fair out are they able to use lead ball or is it just powder only.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭ meathstevie


    solarwinds wrote: »
    Just curious, but if you have an authorisation for gun powder can you then use your muzzle loader, as it then becomes a functioning firearm. Would it then have to be licenced as such.
    How do the re enactment lads fair out are they able to use lead ball or is it just powder only.

    I was once told by a chap into reenactment from up North that to take their gear down this way it was treated as theatrical props and was authorised by a Superintendent in writing for the duration of an event and transport to and from. Strictly no projectiles involved by the way, only boom, bang and smoke.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Didnt that end when some reenactor forgot to remove his ramrod and sent it flying across the audience at a game fair demo some years ago in either Emo or Birr?:eek:

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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