Irishness

tomjmsn

I'm interested to know what the general feeling is about degrees of Irishness, what makes you Irish and openness around ideas of 'becoming Irish' after residence or adopting it as your nationality through family ties.

I was born in England and grew up in England. I speak with an English accent (unfortunately). However my grandfather was Irish - he grew up and lived on the Falls Road in Belfast. We were close when I grew up and he'd tell me stories of Irish history. My other family all have various degrees of Irish backgrounds. I recently had a DNA test and it revealed I am 60% Irish and only 25% English. I have both passports.

I am strongly considering permanently moving to Dublin and wondered if there are likely to any perceived barriers to 'how Irish' I am? Is there much strong anti-English sentiment or any I'll-will towards those who have obtained passports through descendency post-Brexit?

Be brutally honest here, I don't mind what views you have either way. Just seeking to understand the issue really and what attitudes exist towards the subject

Flinty997

Go on holidays in Dublin, Scotland and Wales.
That's the only way to know, see for yourself.

"....Great Britain continues to be a very important market for tourism to the island of Ireland, delivering 42% of all overseas visitors and around 24% of all overseas tourism revenue...."

Brussels Sprout

Honestly, If you don't have an Irish accent then you're probably not going to be considered Irish by most people.

tomjmsn wrote: »

Is there much strong anti-English sentiment or any I'll-will towards those who have obtained passports through descendency post-Brexit?

Nobody's ever going to ask you what passport you hold so no. Also there is no anti-English sentiment here with regard to individuals (apart from a tiny minority of morons).

You might hear people speak negatively of the Tories, Brexiteers, British imperial/colonial attitudes or cheer for whatever country is playing England in football. The trick is to not take any of those personally.

BonnieSituation

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Honestly, If you don't have an Irish accent then you're probably not going to be considered Irish by most people.



Nobody's ever going to ask you what passport you hold so no. Also there is no anti-English sentiment here with regard to individuals (apart from a tiny minority of morons).

You might hear people speak negatively of the Tories, Brexiteers, British imperial/colonial attitudes or cheer for whatever country is playing England in football. The trick is to not take any of those personally.

Give Kevin Kilbane or Mick McCarthy a shout there...

@OP, no one cares about your provenance in the round. People will be interested in your background. I know I am when I meet new people.

But honestly, it's nothing at all to get hung up on.

There's no anti-English sentiment here outside of the Six Nations etc. It's not even a thing to think of.

There's a massive anti-British/Tory establishment sentiment though. And that's simply because we've learned to only trust them as far as we can throw them.

Paulownia

I think that it depends on the person, West Cork is full of English people, some more likeable than others.

Sam Russell

I'm reminded of an old tale - probably going back to biblical times. An old man, travelling from Athens came down for his breakfast at he inn. Another traveller, going in the opposite direction, was eager to know what the people of Athens were like.

The old man asked him what the people were like where he came from. The young traveller did not have a good word to say about them - mean and nasty. The old man said he would find the people of Athens much the same.

The second traveller came down and he was also anxious the hear about the people of Athens. The old man asked the same question and the second traveller could only praise his neighbours - their friendliness and generosity. The old man said the same thing - you will find the people of Athens the same.

You catch more wasps with honey than vinegar.

Cal4567

Lots of English accents around these days, both 2nd generation and a lot now working in Dublin, financial services particularly. Use to be just 2nd generation. Now a lot who have no history with Ireland. Cork and Kerry seem to be full of them. A fair few seemed to have cash in the house and moved, with a lot of spare cash, for the Irish experience.

EmmetSpiceland

Just try not to be too critical of Irish people, or “irishness”. A lot of Irish folk are very sensitive to criticism.

maccored

For legal reasons, you just need a passport. for any other reason, it's no-one else's concern.

joseywhales

I would say someone is Irish if they love the traditions and heritage and want to protect and live them. If you are proud to be Irish, then you are Irish basically.if you aspire to represent ireland well domestically and in foreign countries that is a good sign of irishness.

Quantum Erasure

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Give Kevin Kilbane or Mick McCarthy a shout there...
.

Who are they when they're at home...? If I met them in the street and didn't know them, how would I know they were Irish?

Hamsterchops

This old chestnut.
.... again

It all boils down to how the individual sees themselves and how they regard their own identity.

BonnieSituation

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Who are they when they're at home...? If I met them in the street and didn't know them, how would I know they were Irish?

You're so cool.

Swaine

No Irish accent? You're not Irish. In my eyes anyway.

No amount of virtue signalling will change that.

BonnieSituation

Swaine wrote: »

No Irish accent? You're not Irish. In my eyes anyway.

No amount of virtue signalling will change that.

And what if your accent changed after you were abroad for a decade?

[why did I even respond]

Quantum Erasure

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You're so cool.

Thanks :cool:

:pac:

Swaine

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Give Kevin Kilbane or Mick McCarthy a shout there...

What nonsense is this? Neither of those are Irish. They played soccer with Ireland but they are not Irish. Neither were born or indeed have lived here for any length of time.

BonnieSituation

Swaine wrote: »

What nonsense is this? Neither of those are Irish. They played soccer with Ireland but they are not Irish. Neither were born or indeed have lived here for any length of time.

Right you be...

I see you're one of those sorts then.

* backs out of thread *

Jim2007

Swaine wrote: »

No Irish accent? You're not Irish. In my eyes anyway.

No amount of virtue signalling will change that.

Well by that logic, my daughter’s best friend is Irish then... she spent a lot of the last 18 years hanging out at our house. So she speaks English with a Mayo accent, word usage and grammatical mistakes and has no problem passing herself of as Irish.

Every Irish person that comes to our house assumes she is Irish and when she used to go to the U.K., to avoid the usual “you must be Irish’ conversation, she just told people she came from Castlebar, Co. Mayo and no one ever fulled her up on it.

But the thing is she is Swiss as are both her parents and she has never been to Ireland!

Not much of a filter then.

StupidLikeAFox

Swaine wrote: »

No Irish accent? You're not Irish. In my eyes anyway.

No amount of virtue signalling will change that.

Blowing out someone else's candle doesn't make your own shine brighter

dd973

Swaine wrote: »

What nonsense is this? Neither of those are Irish. They played soccer with Ireland but they are not Irish. Neither were born or indeed have lived here for any length of time.

Kevin Kilbane, 110 Irish Caps, two Irish parents and an Irish citizen.

Not remotely Irish then. :pac:


There does exist a certain type of Irish person who goes through life with a ten inch boner about their accent and birthplace. People like Kilbane and Gary Breen have Irish families and they grow up among other Irish people and their offspring via the Church, GAA clubs and usually the Construction industry.

Jim2007

Would you be willing to die for the country?

The last navy recruit class included a large number of people who were not Irish by birth, but they have taken an oath of allegiance to defend the constitution, defend the country and engage in SAR activities.

Every day beyond the horizon, the navy conducts armed boarding parties to check for drugs etc.. they conduct SAR activities during storms and sailors do loose their lives. Every time you head out from Cork on patrol, there is a very real possibility that you may not come back.

Are these men and women any less Irish than those of us tucked up safely in our beds? I don’t think so. For me it’s not about your accent, the color of your skin or your tradition, it’s about loyalty to the
state. If you feel obligated to defend the state, when you hear it being criticized, your as Irish as anyone else.

Brussels Sprout

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Honestly, If you don't have an Irish accent then you're probably not going to be considered Irish by most people.

I was actually curious about this so I started a thread in After Hours with a poll. Turns out I was wrong as a small majority (51% as of right now) thought that you could be Irish without an Irish accent.

JimmyVik

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And what if your accent changed after you were abroad for a decade?

[why did I even respond]

A real Irish person accent would change back within a day of arriving back in Ireland
If it doesnt they are just a pretentious pr!ck

suicide_circus

I have dual citizenship, Ireland and another country through parentage - but i would claim to be "of" that country.

paw patrol

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Just try not to be too critical of Irish people, or “irishness”. A lot of Irish folk are very sensitive to criticism.

you say that like it's a bad thing.

I do find it odd when foreigners living in ireland criticize it a lot, yet arrived here from a sh1thole.

Forgive me for , despite acknowledging we aren't perfect , not accepting that level of scutter.

magicbastarder

Jim2007 wrote: »

Would you be willing to die for the country?

i'm irish all the way back, but i wouldn't be willing to 'die for the country'!

WrenBoy

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Just try not to be too critical of Irish people, or “irishness”. A lot of Irish folk are very sensitive to criticism.

SENSITIVE !! You've made an enemy for life SpiceBoy !

tomjmsn

Thanks for all the responses. As ever with questions of identity there seems to be quite a lot of difference of opinion.

I realise in some people's eyes I'll never be Irish and I'm fine with that. I do however feel a deep connection to Ireland, the history, the people, the culture. It can be difficult to describe. It's something I'll never take for granted and continue trying to develop by learning more about the history and even the language. I think if you have that respect for a country's cultures and traditions and try your best to integrate yourself then most places would be quite welcoming.

blanch152

tomjmsn wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses. As ever with questions of identity there seems to be quite a lot of difference of opinion.

I realise in some people's eyes I'll never be Irish and I'm fine with that. I do however feel a deep connection to Ireland, the history, the people, the culture. It can be difficult to describe. It's something I'll never take for granted and continue trying to develop by learning more about the history and even the language. I think if you have that respect for a country's cultures and traditions and try your best to integrate yourself then most places would be quite welcoming.

Don't listen to the naysayers. Don't let others define you. If you feel Irish, then you are Irish.

Nobody has any right to exclusively define a label. And a label is all that nationality really is.

Joe Biden calls himself Irish even though it is a tenuous link and republicans celebrate that he might stick it to the Brits. At the same time, they will deride their own countrymen who are happy with the current constitutional status, calling them "partitionists" in a pejorative way.

Nationality is overblown. Modern interpretations should see it delinked from territorial considerations and even language. The world is a smaller place, but should have little time for small-minded exclusive nationalism.

You feel Irish, you want to be Irish, you are Irish.

JimmyVik

tomjmsn wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses. As ever with questions of identity there seems to be quite a lot of difference of opinion.

I realise in some people's eyes I'll never be Irish and I'm fine with that. I do however feel a deep connection to Ireland, the history, the people, the culture. It can be difficult to describe. It's something I'll never take for granted and continue trying to develop by learning more about the history and even the language. I think if you have that respect for a country's cultures and traditions and try your best to integrate yourself then most places would be quite welcoming.

Actually nobody cares at all tbh.
People just messing in this thread because its funny that anyone would think that people are bothered by such things.

EmmetSpiceland

tomjmsn wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses. As ever with questions of identity there seems to be quite a lot of difference of opinion.

I realise in some people's eyes I'll never be Irish and I'm fine with that. I do however feel a deep connection to Ireland, the history, the people, the culture. It can be difficult to describe. It's something I'll never take for granted and continue trying to develop by learning more about the history and even the language. I think if you have that respect for a country's cultures and traditions and try your best to integrate yourself then most places would be quite welcoming.

The main thing, really, is to not take it too seriously. A lot of “casual” sectarianism has built up over the last while through that Irish Simpsons Fans page on Facebook and Blind Boy Boat Club.

So you may get called a “Tan”, “Sassenach” or have references of British involvement in Irish history, the famine, 800 years of oppression etc directed at you. As long as you don’t get defensive, or join in, you’ll be fine.

Do not point out that it’s actually closer to 400 years of oppression. It won’t go down well.

Seth Brundle

blanch152 wrote: »

You feel Irish, you want to be Irish, you are Irish.

I think it is this but one also needs a dose of begrudgery!

suicide_circus

If my wife and i move to Korea and have a baby, is the child Korean?

Stovepipe

Swaine wrote: »

No Irish accent? You're not Irish. In my eyes anyway.

No amount of virtue signalling will change that.

accents? Nip across to D4 and ask them about accents and Irishness. they will robustly defend their Irishness yet their convoluted, made up accent is not Irish (Rachel Allen, I'm looking at you. Miriam O'Callaghan, Lorraine Keane, you two as well).

blanch152

suicide_circus wrote: »

If my wife and i move to Korea and have a baby, is the child Korean?

Going by the exclusionary nationalist principles, the answer is yes, and they are definitely not Irish.

For the rest of us, it is actually something for your child to decide. The answer may vary over the years. While very young, they may feel Korean, in line with their peers (assuming you fully integrate in Korean society), as they grow older and learn about family heritage, they may draw on that and become Irish. Who knows, maybe you will move to Australia when the child is five and he will drink Fosters and tell his mates g'day (apologies for the inaccurate characterisation of Australians)?