Eoghan Harris terminated

cameramonkey

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Undertone of anti semitism on occasion etc etc.

Do tell.

nialler1978

Kole Delightful Woodchuck wrote: »

McAleese was embarrassing for her reaction to the British Queen speaking a couple of words of Irish, when the content of the speech was known and worked out in advance (like they always are for state occasions like this), and hence was no surprise.

I agree the gushing over it was a bit excessive but I think it was a nice gesture of unity between the cultures. Obviously the speeches are worked out, and I am just surmising because I'm not in the habit of looking at the queens visits but I doubt she says a few words of the native tongue on all her visits, I'm sure she has on some visits, but is it part of the performance on every visit? I'm just asking. I'd say it was definitely the first time a king or queen of GB spoke a few words of Irish on a visit here.

Jaysci20

"GEE A GITCH - A COR JAH"

"Wow!"

gormdubhgorm

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

I'm not sure the moniker West Brit denotes allegiance to Britain per se so much as the Anglophilic and partitionist views that these people hold. See also cultural cringe, obsession with the British/German royal family and so on.

Thankfully it is becoming less prevalent and 20silkcut is correct that Brexit has diminished it severely.

Btw here's exhibit A of the fawning obsequiousness of these people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHsvb7k7_ho

Ofc the video doesn't include the worst, eg that the prince represented "everything we aspire to".

I would argue that what Bruton had said hits close to the bone for many because it has a grain of truth. How many Irish 'Republicans' follow the English soccer team and English popular culture?

Also SF early on 'weaponised' the Irish language. Pearse shafted Hyde. The language was no longer a beacon of Irish culture one of communication. It was merely a symbolic tool. A weapon.

I would not agree with a much of Gregory Campbell says. But his 'Curry my Yogurt can of Coca Collyer' was genius.
Why because many of the SF ilk merely use the Irish language as a 'symbol' a few words here or there.

Plus when younger hearing Bruton going on about joining the commonwealth appeared daft. But as I got older I have realised the close ties of England and Ireland is a lot closer and similar than some like to pretend. The glorious mythical Gael and 'Irish race' was only a very recent invention.

Plus Irish history would have been a lot better off if Ireland at least bided it's time in the Commonwealth it would at least a have remained United until SF spilt it.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I would argue that what Bruton had said hits close to the bone for many because it has a grain of truth. How many Irish 'Republicans' follow the English soccer team and English popular culture?

Also SF early on 'weaponised' the Irish language. Pearse shafted Hyde. The language was no longer a beacon of Irish culture one of communication. It was merely a symbolic tool. A weapon.

I would not agree with a much of Gregory Campbell says. But his 'Curry my Yogurt can of Coca Collyer' was genius.
Why because many of the SF ilk merely use the Irish language as a 'symbol' a few words here or there.

Plus when younger hearing Bruton going on about joining the commonwealth appeared daft. But as I got older I have realised the close ties of England and Ireland is a lot closer and similar than some like to pretend. The glorious mythical Gael and 'Irish race' was only a very recent invention.

Plus Irish history would have been a lot better off if Ireland at least bided it's time in the Commonwealth it would at least a have remained United until SF spilt it.

Bruton's regretful inferiority complex writ large in that one GDG.

shockframe

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yes I agree Harris deserved his comeuppance
The bit that annoys me is how SF and SF supporters 'play' it.
Ok it is a semi-serious issue, but it is not life and death. But yet SF and SF supporters taking the 'moral high ground'.
It seems like a bit of oxymoron to me to be honest. Given, their history, past general utterances, and dedicated social media 'operatives'. Undertone of anti semitism on occasion etc etc.

You can't blame Sinn Fein for taking a small bit of glee over this.

I'd say given the dire state of the Nation at the minute this has been a great dose of humour to the entire country.

The likes of Harris and his ilk have done nothing to being about peace in the island.

It's probably more down to the people in the Sinn Fein strongholds that have quietly brought about change for the better without blowing their trumpet. It looks to have modernised quite well North and South.

The scaremongering from the establishment might have worked in the pre-internet days when they could not be challenged as much but over the last 2 decades the much publicised view on SF has not quite fitted with reality. Thats even before you get to the Fianna Fail struggles.

Eoghan Harris going on about them as if it was the 70s/80s is like the Japanese soldiers fighting the war decades after it ended.

Cilldara_2000

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I would argue that what Bruton had said hits close to the bone for many because it has a grain of truth. How many Irish 'Republicans' follow the English soccer team and English popular culture?

Also SF early on 'weaponised' the Irish language. Pearse shafted Hyde. The language was no longer a beacon of Irish culture one of communication. It was merely a symbolic tool. A weapon.

I would not agree with a much of Gregory Campbell says. But his 'Curry my Yogurt can of Coca Collyer' was genius.
Why because many of the SF ilk merely use the Irish language as a 'symbol' a few words here or there.

Plus when younger hearing Bruton going on about joining the commonwealth appeared daft. But as I got older I have realised the close ties of England and Ireland is a lot closer and similar than some like to pretend. The glorious mythical Gael and 'Irish race' was only a very recent invention.

Plus Irish history would have been a lot better off if Ireland at least bided it's time in the Commonwealth it would at least a have remained United until SF spilt it.

Whoosh basically.

In this stage, with many years of independence under our belt, the hardcore Irish first people are as bad as the West Brits. Reasonable people can see that there's nothing inherently superior about one culture over the other here. The problem is the people who actively run down Irish culture in preference for British or English. And there are many who do so. They can do what they like in their own lives for all I care, but they can feck off when taking potshots at "people who have fadas in their usernames".

OTOH I'm not going to criticise the Gaelic revival people considering how the British deliberately attempted to destroy Gaelic culture in this country. The revival people did well to preserve it.

Also read a history book. SF did not divide Ireland nor did they take Ireland out of the commonwealth. Bruton's own party was responsible for that last bit.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bruton's regretful inferiority complex writ large in that one GDG.

Yeah I do get that bit in fairness. I remember been annoyed at it myself.
He went a bit OTT.
But from a general point of view I don't think some of Bruton's viewpoints are as daft as they first appear.

It just necessitated compromise and people taking on the less a palatable option form both sides.

Unionists would have hated a Commonwealth type UI with any sort of Parliament in Dublin.

Republicans would have went mad about being under the yoke of the Crown, taking the oath etc.

But historically if both sides could have stomached it would have worked out better imo.

If history went like that would it have created 'Eoghan Harris' as is? Or would he be still a bit 'on the off the wall' side. Would he still 'Sniping in the bushes' himself with his own arse in the air, with the Pym account as camouflage?

We will never know that answer.

gormdubhgorm

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Whoosh basically.

In this stage, with many years of independence under our belt, the hardcore Irish first people are as bad as the West Brits. Reasonable people can see that there's nothing inherently superior about one culture over the other here. The problem is the people who actively run down Irish culture in preference for British or English. And there are many who do so. They can do what they like in their own lives for all I care, but they can feck off when taking potshots at "people who have fadas in their usernames".

OTOH I'm not going to criticise the Gaelic revival people considering how the British deliberately attempted to destroy Gaelic culture in this country. The revival people did well to preserve it.

Also read a history book. SF did not divide Ireland nor did they take Ireland out of the commonwealth. Bruton's own party was responsible for that last bit.

SF basically did divide Ireland they lit the spark the rest is semantics.
Much as SF cannot currently say the name of any state their TD's/MLA's currently represent.

It has a touch of a fantasy world about it, 'don't say the names and we can pretend it never happened'. Genius stuff... :rolleyes:

The reality is the British were the only crowd who ever United Ireland. It was SF who ended up causing the split. And it was FG who were left to declare a Republic with the 1948 Act Which I still kind of love the irony of I have to admit.

I suppose it has all lead to this situation where a poor elderly defenceless man gets 'taken down' in a SF/RTE plot. :rolleyes:

And I am being sarcastic on the last line above in case anyone thinks I am serious.

cameramonkey

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

SF basically did divide Ireland they lit the spark the rest is semantics.
Much as SF cannot currently say the name of any state their members currently represent.

It has a touch of a fantasy world about it, 'don't say the names and we can pretend it never happened'. Genius stuff... :rolleyes:

The reality is the British were the only crowd who ever United Ireland. It was SF who ended up causing the split. And it was FG who were left to declare a Republic with the 1948 Act Which I still kind of love the irony of I have to admit.

That is a facile reading of history, the arming of loyalists and the reaction of the British state set us on the road to partition.

Cilldara_2000

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

SF basically did divide Ireland they lit the spark the rest is semantics.
Much as SF cannot say the name of any state they represent.

The reality is the British were the only crowd who ever United Ireland. It was SF who ended up causing the split. And it was FG who were left to declare a Republic with the 1948 Act Which I still kind of love the irony of I have to admit.

It's absolutely not semantics to point out the the British drew up plans for partition before one shot was fired by an Irish republican and while SF didn't have one single MP. Seriously, do read up on history before spouting this nonsense.

But well done on turning the thread back to Sinn Féin, again. Although what relevance SF's actions or inactions in the 1910s have is completely beyond me. Bruton has as much claim to their actions as any SFer.

Although I am glad that you've finally stopped beating your obnoxious Aoife Moore drum.

TheCitizen

iffandonlyif wrote: »

‘Partitionist.’ Well that immediately marks you out as an extremist and removes any credibility you might have had.

People like you haven’t any consistent understanding of what West Brit means. You use it in whatever way suits your pathetic purposes.

That visit, in the years before the Belfast Agreement, was the first by a member of the Royal Family since independence. During a time of fierce acrimony, it was momentous and brave, and deserved praise. Are you also going to call Mary McAleese a West Brit for the exaggerated praise she gave the Queen?

In the name of God, you’re not going to try to defend that pathetic craw thumping

Chips Lovell

cameramonkey wrote: »

...facile ...

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

...obnoxious...

TheCitizen wrote: »

...pathetic...

Beanntraigheach wrote: »

...rabid, obsessional...

Steady on lads. If the thread keeps going this way we're going to run out of adjectives by the end of the day.

Dyr

Beanntraigheach wrote: »

"not sufficiently enamoured of Gaelic culture" -
That's a pretty tame description of what often amounts to a rabid, obsessional hatred of Ireland's indigenous culture and language.
A hatred primarily based on feelings of inferiority in being Irish and the fact that it's this culture that distinguishes us from the Anglo/British identity some view as superior and crave to be part of.

Nail hits head.

gormdubhgorm

cameramonkey wrote: »

That is a facile reading of history, the arming of loyalists and the reaction of the British state set us on the road to partition.

Is it? And what about the reaction of republicans? The whole chain of events did not just happen on thier own.

There was no public support for 1916 - few fellas get shot - moral outrage - public sympathy - blood sacrifice etc -etc.
Truce - War over - spilt - infighting. Odd skirmish from the disaffected in the 30's 40's etc

The troubles - 1960's - 1990's dressed up as a 'war' by some of those involved.
But the way I see it a war needs popular support - all island. If a 'war; does not have popular support it is something else entirely.

Republicans took years to compromise as did Unionists. Like two teenagers fighting. Left to the parents - UK and Ireland who just had to wait for them to mature, and grow out it.
Some still have a long way to go on both sides - still a bit of madhouse. Just the guns have stopped firing.

tipptom

Jaysci20 wrote: »

She mentions Aoife Moore's well-being. I'm sure Prone is acutely aware of female mental health since the suicide of Kate Fitzgerald.

You couldnt sink any lower bringing Kate Fitzgearld into this and what her family suffered with her name being used by people

This is typical of these disgusting attacks on another female journalist and what you are trying to insinuate is cowardly in the extreme

I do hope you become acutely aware of what a scummy sarcastic statement this is.

Cilldara_2000

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Is it? And what about the reaction of republicans? The whole chain of events did not just happen on thier own.

There was no public support for 1916 - few fellas get shot - moral outrage - public sympathy - blood sacrifice etc -etc.
Truce - War over - spilt - infighting. Odd skirmish from the disaffected in the 30's 40's etc

The troubles - 1960's - 1990's dressed up as a 'war' by some of those involved.
But the way I see it a war needs popular support - all island. If a 'war; does not have popular support it is something else entirely.

Republicans took years to compromise as did Unionists. Like two teenagers fighting. Left to the parents - UK and Ireland who just had to wait for them to mature, and grow out it.
Some still have a long way to go on both sides - still a bit of madhouse. Just the guns have stopped firing.

Nice deflection again to completely avoid acknowledging that your SF caused partition point was bonkers.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

But the way I see it a war needs popular support - all island. If a 'war; does not have popular support it is something else entirely.

I think I have run out of adjectives, not to mention expletives.

Sunny Disposition

I don't like Eoghan Harris, and I like his politics less. But I think firing him is very extreme, unless something more emerges. Tweeting anonymously is hardly a firing crime, and the tweets don't seem to have been as severe as I had suspected when I heard the news anyway. It was the kind of horseshti you'd expect from him really. I would totally have understanded if they had wanted to get rid of him for writing the same anti nationalist stuff for a generation, but that doesn't seem to have been the problem at all.

McMurphy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yes I agree Harris deserved his comeuppance
The bit that annoys me is how SF and SF supporters 'play' it.
Ok it is a semi-serious issue, but it is not life and death. But yet SF and SF supporters taking the 'moral high ground'.
It seems like a bit of oxymoron to me to be honest. Given, their history, past general utterances, and dedicated social media 'operatives'. Undertone of anti semitism on occasion etc etc.

Harris has been attacking SF at every given opportunity for so long as I can remember (or certainty became aware of him) accusing them of the very thing he was caught red handed doing - operating several troll accounts.

Of course the shinners are going to take a certain amount of glee at that, expecting them not to, would be like not expecting the man who has been tailgated for a while on the N7 by some obnoxious driver flashing aggressively, and the
seeingg the same obnoxious driver 3 miles further down the road, pulled in on the hard by the traffic core, to not take some guilty pleasure at someone getting their comeuppance.

gormdubhgorm

Beanntraigheach wrote: »

"not sufficiently enamoured of Gaelic culture" -
That's a pretty tame description of what often amounts to a rabid, obsessional hatred of Ireland's indigenous culture and language.
A hatred primarily based on feelings of inferiority in being Irish and the fact that it's this culture that distinguishes us from the Anglo/British identity some view as superior and crave to be part of.

Yeah there is a point to that but I believe it is much worse that those who use the Irish language as weaponised symbol. Using it piecemeal in stormont with a few parroted phrases.Similar to hi-jacking the flag you saw it in the 2020 GE's after successful SF TD's were hoisted high. That is a p take in my opinion. No other TD's went waving the tricolour like SF. The flag had been long tarnished as it was. Until it took an English World Cup Winner to save it somewhat from 1988 on.

I have spoken to a fluent Gaeilgeoir ó Tír Chonaill, who said he would not wear a Fáinne because of it's Republican militant connotations, that some may draw.

I thought that was terrible sad state of affairs. That was so called 'Irish Republicans' doing.

It is the type of stealing of 'Irish identity' that the likes of Harris would get riled about. But he fought in the wrong way and without proper analysis. Just attack anything and everything that he viewed as connected to SF.

Jaysci20

tipptom wrote: »

You couldnt sink any lower bringing Kate Fitzgearld into this and what her family suffered with her name being used by people

This is typical of these disgusting attacks on another female journalist and what you are trying to insinuate is cowardly in the extreme

I do hope you become acutely aware of what a scummy sarcastic statement this is.

What am I trying to insinuate? That Terry Prone would be aware of the importance of female mental health, more so than most? Did she or did she not express concern for her colleague today and has it not being mentioned numerous times since Friday that Aoife Moore required counselling?

gormdubhgorm

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Nice deflection again to completely avoid acknowledging that your SF caused partition point was bonkers.

So your telling me that if Redmond was let get on with Home Rule and the pressure was kept up after world war I, with no rising before it's end - or no unpopular, unlawful insurgency, history could not have been different?

It might have taken a while but there may not have been a split, imo.

It is not bonkers it is just looking at history from a different viewpoint.

I am just glad eejits are mouthing on social media now though. Instead of firing bullets. That is progress I suppose...

Chips Lovell

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Tweeting anonymously is hardly a firing crime, and the tweets don't seem to have been as severe as I had suspected when I heard the news anyway. I

The issue really is two-fold. First, he was using fake accounts (he says one, Twitter thinks it's nine) to amplify his message, basically giving the impression that his views have more support than they really do.

Secondly, he was using the anonymity of at least one of these fake accounts to post in an abusive manner against some people, something he wouldn't have been able to get away with under his real name.

Fann Linn

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I don't like Eoghan Harris, and I like his politics less. But I think firing him is very extreme, unless something more emerges. Tweeting anonymously is hardly a firing crime, and the tweets don't seem to have been as severe as I had suspected when I heard the news anyway. It was the kind of horseshti you'd expect from him really. I would totally have understanded if they had wanted to get rid of him for writing the same anti nationalist stuff for a generation, but that doesn't seem to have been the problem at all.

It wasn't just the tweet to the journalist that got him sacked. There is a professor and a documentary maker after serving legal notice on him plus he also leaked info from his employer.

Cilldara_2000

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So your telling me that if Redmond was let get on with Home Rule and the pressure was kept up after world war I, with no rising - or no unpopular, unlawful insurgency, history could not have been different?

It might have taken a while but there may have been a split, imo.

It is not bonkers it is just looking at history from a different viewpoint.

I am just glad eejits are mouthing on social media now though. Instead of firing bullets. That is progress I suppose...

Facts matter.

The Ulster unionists’ threat of violence bore fruit on 9 March 1914 when Asquith told the House of Commons that his government would exclude Unionist Ulster from the terms of the Home Rule Bill for six years.

Source (pdf)

The unionists demanded and were granted a split before Irish Republicanism got going again in 1916. SF did not cause partition. Come back to me when you accept this.

Dyr

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah there is a point to that but I believe it is much worse that those who use the Irish language as weaponised symbol. Using it piecemeal in stormont with a few parroted phrases.Similar to hi-jacking the flag you saw it in the 2020 GE's after successful SF TD's were hoisted high. That is a p take in my opinion. No other TD's went waving the tricolour like SF. The flag had been long tarnished as it was. Until it took an English World Cup to save it somewhat from 1988 on.

I have spoken to a fluent Gaeilgeoir ó Tír Chonaill, who said he would not wear a Fáinne because of it's Republican militant connotations, that some may draw.

I thought that was terrible sad state of affairs. That was so called 'Irish Republicans' doing.

It is the type of stealing of 'Irish identity' that the likes of Harris would get riled about. But he fought in the wrong way and without proper analysis. Just attack anything and everything that he viewed as connected to SF.

Very strange outlook on life that, but at least I can see why you're posting so much "OF COURSE Harris was in the wrong... BUT" stuff, a fellow traveller to use a Harrisism

gormdubhgorm

Bambi wrote: »

Very strange outlook on life that, but at least I can see why you're posting so much "OF COURSE Harris was in the wrong... BUT" stuff, a fellow traveller to use a Harrisism

Oh I don't like Harris at all.

Would not have much time for Gerry Adams as well (from a moral and honesty standpoint) but at least I think he is top notch shrewd negotiator and politician.

Harris is/was just a myopic 'shock jock journalist' when all is said and done. No real merit to him - except persistence. Seemed more opportunist than anything else - with all that flip flopping.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

yeah, i wasn't sure if i'd missed something else. you can't compare the two.

Well, of course Brutal was worse, but another poster was saying that McAleese was a great example in dealing with 'royalty', while she was better I would not go that far because the "wow" which was cringy, especially when it was premeditated and not an off the cuff reaction.

Personally I think Martin McGuinness gave a great example

tipptom

Jaysci20 wrote: »

What am I trying to insinuate? That Terry Prone would be aware of the importance of female mental health, more so than most? Did she or did she not express concern for her colleague today and has it not being mentioned numerous times since Friday that Aoife Moore required counselling?

Go away with your BS trying to weasel out of your scummy statement.

You have been nothing but nasty about Aoife Moore in your posts since this broke about her seeking counsellling about the attacks on her from this PYM account.

Terry Prone then gives an interview against Harris and you bring up Kate Fitzgearlds name,a girl who commited suicide,to sling at Prone

You now embarrass yourself trying to pretend that this is not a dig at Prone and that you are suddenly concerned for Aoife Moore getting counselling

These are the very same nasty cowardly tactics as Harris,but you could have either apologised for using Kate Fitzgearlds name or just shut up,and i am sure you are aware of how the Fitzgearld family made public of how distressesing it was for them of how their dead daughters name was been used to attack someone and they wanted it to cease.