Really Excellent Public Services in Ireland that aren't Shambolic

Flinty997

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'd have a very different view on them but maybe I was just unlucky. Did 2 courses up to post grad level through Springboard, 2 different colleges and both times they were lectured by inexperienced people and stunk of being cobbled together for HEA money.

Thats not to say I didn't get anything out of them but the later of the courses I did was absolutely shambolic in it's delivery.

I assume the courses are delivered privately. That they get feedback and if there were a lot of complaints they would be dropped as supplier. Don't know how it works tbh..

poppers

RulesOfNature wrote: »

When did I agree for them to build the world’s most expensive hospital?

When do you agree for the government to build anything also
Ill think you'll find its the dept of health not revenue thats building the hospital.

hatrickpatrick

ComReg, in my experience. Efficient enough that one threat to involve them can make Vodafone back down within seconds when they've overcharged due to not informing customers of hidden changes to their plan.

tdf7187

Others mileage may differ, but in my experience the quality of public services in general has improved significantly in recent decades, pretty much across the board.

The Revenue Commissioners have always been good in my experience. Even when everything else was bureaucratic ****e, they were always reasonably professional.

RulesOfNature

poppers wrote: »

When do you agree for the government to build anything also
Ill think you'll find its the dept of health not revenue thats building the hospital.

When did I agree for corporations and wealthy elites to be taxed 0 while I get taxed nearly half of everything I make?

Revenue is there to tax the poor and middle class. It exists to keep you in your place.

How can anyone look at the low taxes paid by the wealthy in Ireland and still call the Revenue office progressive and effective? Its a sham.

Montage of Feck

gmisk wrote: »

OPW...waste a lot of money....a lot

What do they actually do now? Most of the main infrastructure jobs have been divested to a multidute of other agencies that seem utterly incapable of pricing jobs.

paw patrol

funny how revenue are so efficient :pac:

Buddy97mm

RulesOfNature wrote: »

When did I agree for corporations and wealthy elites to be taxed 0 while I get taxed nearly half of everything I make?

Revenue is there to tax the poor and middle class. It exists to keep you in your place.

How can anyone look at the low taxes paid by the wealthy in Ireland and still call the Revenue office progressive and effective? Its a sham.

This thread is not about politics, its about areas of the State that operate efficiently. To be fair, tax rates, etc. are political decisions, not the choice of any Department. Revenue as far as I know are apolitical and only implement those political decisions, which to be fair they do quite efficiently. Disagreeing with taxation policy is very understandable but I do not think Revenue are the ones to blame.

mikemac2

Best: Revenue by a mile

Worst: Department of Agriculture. Incredibly inefficient and unhelpful

Honourable mention: the OPW hire passionate super staff like in Kilmainham Jail and do lots of other good work. Guilty of wasting money though sometimes

An Ri rua

RulesOfNature wrote: »

When did I agree for them to build the world’s most expensive hospital?

Revenue are good at a lot of things but I don't think they build hospitals. As yet.
I don't know when you agreed to that? How would I? And why did you?

RulesOfNature

An Ri rua wrote: »

Revenue are good at a lot of things but I don't think they build hospitals. As yet.
I don't know when you agreed to that? How would I? And why did you?

The point is, Revenue in Ireland is efficient at taxing the poor and the working man, but has so many loopholes available for the rich.

They are efficient at taxing YOU. They are not efficient at taxing corporations and wealthy elites.

Economics101

RulesOfNature wrote: »

The point is, Revenue in Ireland is efficient at taxing the poor and the working man, but has so many loopholes available for the rich.

They are efficient at taxing YOU. They are not efficient at taxing corporations and wealthy elites.

I think this is misleading. Revenue just implement tax legislation. If the "elite" are not taxed effectively it's because politicians have enacted legislation to that effect. Anyhow you are wrong on the facts: taxation and benefits between them are highly redistributive in Ireland.

Corruptedmorals

The National Archives were great, but it's been a long time since I was there. OPW do great work also.

There are a lot of great services within the public hospitals. Of course there is focus on their abysmal waiting lists, trolley counts etc. etc. There is more of a focus on specialist nurses running clinics which takes pressure off the regular clinics and frees them up for more complicated patients. The hospital where I work also has a really excellent pathway for cancer patients. You can get referred by your GP on Monday, notes reviewed and offered an appointment within a few days, biopsy done the same day, scans ordered and prepped for surgery the following week. Scans completed, results back and treatment course planned between hospitals all within a few weeks of the original referral. It ran the same all through covid also.

RulesOfNature

Economics101 wrote: »

I think this is misleading. Revenue just implement tax legislation. If the "elite" are not taxed effectively it's because politicians have enacted legislation to that effect. Anyhow you are wrong on the facts: taxation and benefits between them are highly redistributive in Ireland.

Evidently false. They are literally building the world's most expensive hospital in front of everyone, and the corruption around it is painfully obvious. Meanwhile amazon took 44billion euros of profits last year without playing a dime in taxes.

Oh but they're so efficient that they refunded you that 65euros in overpaid taxes. They must be a fair and efficient revenue service!

Kewreeuss

When I call Revenue it is because I have a problem or need information.
most times I call I get a person who knows what they are talking about and I can usually tell when there is a newbie on the other end of the line. If they cannot help me, they will pass me up the line to someone who does.
Since COVID the holding time has increased, but I expect its because half of them Are working from home.
When I call Revenue I couldn’t care less about the government taxation policies or the cost of the blasted children’s hospital.
I want someone to pick up the call and help me.
I doubt if the person who answers my call is bothered either.
I am very thankful that it’s not like the uk where you could be waiting an hour to get through and that’s if you call before 9 am.
I am also grateful that I can pick up the phone and deal with someone. Try that is some European countries and the phone isn’t picked up at all and you have to take time off work and visit the office. Also you get your overpaid taxes back when you ask for them, they are not kept and offset against the next year..

Government policies is a different thing from an efficient service.

mariaalice

Coillte and the OPW.

What is intriguing is the perception that you are going to get bad services just because it is a public service, I have met a few people who have had a very good experience of the HSE lately and without fail their response was a surprise at how good a public hospital was.

Not that there are no issues but I wonder how can there be so much of a disconnect between the good services most get and the perception of how awful the public services are, I suppose those dissatisfied are more likely to go to the media.

Tpcl20

RulesOfNature wrote: »

When did I agree for them to build the world’s most expensive hospital?

An Ri rua wrote: »

Stop being a child.

The solution to the children's hospital issue may be closer than we think.

Do the HSE have their own planning and building dept who are responsible for that disaster?

road_high

The Revenue Commissioners (sadly!)- they’re efficient, ruthless and clinical about collecting tax. On the flip side they’ve been very fast with any refund claims I’ve made too. Probably one of the best in Europe especially when yiu compare what went on in Greece over the years with tax avoidance that bankrupt the state

Economics101

RulesOfNature wrote: »

Evidently false. They are literally building the world's most expensive hospital in front of everyone, and the corruption around it is painfully obvious. Meanwhile amazon took 44billion euros of profits last year without playing a dime in taxes.

Oh but they're so efficient that they refunded you that 65euros in overpaid taxes. They must be a fair and efficient revenue service!

The discussion is supposed to be about efficient online services, in particular Revenue. What does this have to with cost over-runs and related issues with the children's hospital? Absolutely nothing. What does Amazon's worldwide profit have to do with Revenue? Almost nothing: they didn't write the legislation, they just implement it. And anyhow has it not occurred to you that Amazon's profits are mostly unrelated to Ireland: they are after all a global company.

gameoverdude

Economics101 wrote:

The discussion is supposed to be about efficient online services, in particular Revenue. What does this have to with cost over-runs and related issues with the children's hospital? Absolutely nothing. What does Amazon's worldwide profit have to do with Revenue? Almost nothing: they didn't write the legislation, they just implement it. And anyhow has it not occurred to you that Amazon's profits are mostly unrelated to Ireland: they are after all a global company.

I'm also disgusted with the the quality of "vintage" cheddar in lidl. This post has as much relevance as some others.

mariaalice

The..." I pay your wages" as a response to anything to do with public service is another one.

gameoverdude

mariaalice wrote:

The..." I pay your wages" as a response to anything to do with public service is another one.

Does this mean I pay my own wages now?

archfi

Passport Office online service.
Very efficient, application to receiving new passport (2018) was three days.
The computerised 'yes or no' to self taken photo is a godsend.

Revenue: email or in person - polite, super efficient, helpful

crossman47

mariaalice wrote: »

Coillte and the OPW.

What is intriguing is the perception that you are going to get bad services just because it is a public service, I have met a few people who have had a very good experience of the HSE lately and without fail their response was a surprise at how good a public hospital was.

Not that there are no issues but I wonder how can there be so much of a disconnect between the good services most get and the perception of how awful the public services are, I suppose those dissatisfied are more likely to go to the media.

I agree. In fact the service in private hospitals can be quite poor and, if anything serious goes wrong, you are transferred immediately to a public hospital. The private hospitals are good at taking your money but often not so good at the essential medical treatments.

murpho999

RulesOfNature wrote: »

Revenue is there to take your money. To praise and cheer them on is bizarre.

They are efficient at taking your money. To fund the world’s most expensive hospital. Being built during a worldwide economic recession caused by a pandemic. Go figure.

Really a ridiculous post.

Their job is not just to collect money, which in itself is no easy task but to implement and manage all the complications of our tax system.

When you consider how many taxes we have it’s quite a responsibility that could easily be a disaster.

On a personal level, I recently changed job and it was so easy, just log on to my revenue. Add new job and enter new employer's details and start date and everything is done.
Your new employer is notified of your tax credits, old employer is turned off. No P45s, or paper forms and most importantly no delays resulting in emergency tax, It was perfect.

That’s just one example of how they have developed a great system.

Once the money is collected they are not involved with or concerned with how it is spent. That is the government’s responsibility and projects like the children’s hospital has been ongoing for years and pre-date Covid and should not stop.
It’s a wonder you didn’t mention the homeless as well.

crossman47

crossman47 wrote: »

I agree. In fact the service in private hospitals can be quite poor and, if anything serious goes wrong, you are transferred immediately to a public hospital. The private hospitals are good at taking your money but often not so good at the essential medical treatments.

Absolute nonsense, the service in private hospitals is excellent and provides excellent value for money. E.g not paying for porters and their numerous tea breaks. Vastly different to the shambles in public health

mariaalice

salonfire wrote: »

Absolute nonsense, the service in private hospitals is excellent and provides excellent value for money. E.g not paying for porters and their numerous tea breaks. Vastly different to the shambles in public health

What on earth makes you think private hospitals don't have proters?

I have had treatment in the public and private hospitals and the treatment in both was very good but in no way was the private hospital superior except for a private room.

I asked a register about this and he said there is no difference in the treatment but you might have more control over appointments in the private hospital.

Private hospitals can be shambolic why is there an iron-clad belief that if it's a for-profit service it will be better.

Equium

Irish online application and renewal systems are generally very good. NDLS, PSC, Passport Office, etc. are all a breeze to deal with. Any licence or card is generally in your post box within 3 to 5 days of making an application. It just works.

Ditto for the Revenue, as mentioned numerous times. They are extremely efficient at both taking and refunding money.

My OH has to deal with Italian government agencies on a regular basis, and they are light years behind in this regard. Websites are missing forms, emails are often never replied to and you get passed from post to pillar to get an answer to any request. Having to attend an appointment in person there is even worse. You could easily spend a day being shuffled between several buildings just to get home none the wiser.

The OPW and DCC also do an amazing job in keeping our parks clean and in blossom. Our big public parks are generally kept in immaculate condition.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

why is there an iron-clad belief that if it's a for-profit service it will be better.

Because withdrawal of services and using the customers as hostages is not tolerated like when the nurses walked away from cancer patients in pursuit of their own greed.

Despite most them earning significantly above the average wage, they knew what their salary would be when entering the profession and they know that they have guaranteed increments plus whatever across the board increases there would be.

mariaalice

mariaalice wrote: »

What on earth makes you think private hospitals don't have proters?

I have had treatment in the public and private hospitals and the treatment in both was very good but in no way was the private hospital superior except for a private room.

I asked a register about this and he said there is no difference in the treatment but you might have more control over appointments in the private hospital.

Private hospitals can be shambolic why is there an iron-clad belief that if it's a for-profit service it will be better.

When someone has a financial interest in them, or they believe what they read in the likes of the daily mail

crossman47

salonfire wrote: »

Absolute nonsense, the service in private hospitals is excellent and provides excellent value for money. E.g not paying for porters and their numerous tea breaks. Vastly different to the shambles in public health

I'm afraid my experience was just as I stated. I developed a complication due an error by a private hospital and was immediately moved to a public hospital with the necessary speciality.

Padre_Pio

salonfire wrote: »

Because withdrawal of services and using the customers as hostages is not tolerated like when the nurses walked away from cancer patients in pursuit of their own greed.

Despite most them earning significantly above the average wage, they knew what their salary would be when entering the profession and they know that they have guaranteed increments plus whatever across the board increases there would be.

Point 1 is just plain incorrect. Many private companies go on strike and withdraw their services. Happens regularly. The LUAS is operated by Transdev and has striked (struck?) many times (including during the Leaving Cert and 2016 Easter weekend) so there's precedent for private companies with public contracts going on strike.

Point 2 is also incorrect. Firstly, there's nothing wrong with looking for better pay. Secondly, the nature of the work is constantly changing. A nurse's job in 2000 is completely different from a nurse's job in 2020. Same with a teacher, who is now more of a social worker. The qualifications and skills have changed, but the government only reviews wage structures when they're forced to. Also, the average wage is sh*te. If you're aiming for average, you're aiming too low.


Anyways, my go to is Revenue. Their MyAccount platform is great and makes it easy to apply for rebates and balancing statements.

My only gripe with museums is they're closed on Sundays and Bank Holidays, which are prime museum days.

mariaalice

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Point 1 is just plain incorrect. Many private companies go on strike and withdraw their services. Happens regularly. The LUAS is operated by Transdev and has striked (struck?) many times (including during the Leaving Cert and 2016 Easter weekend) so there's precedent for private companies with public contracts going on strike.

Point 2 is also incorrect. Firstly, there's nothing wrong with looking for better pay. Secondly, the nature of the work is constantly changing. A nurse's job in 2000 is completely different from a nurse's job in 2020. Same with a teacher, who is now more of a social worker. The qualifications and skills have changed, but the government only reviews wage structures when they're forced to. Also, the average wage is sh*te. If you're aiming for average, you're aiming too low.


Anyways, my go to is Revenue. Their MyAccount platform is great and makes it easy to apply for rebates and balancing statements.

My only gripe with museums is they're closed on Sundays and Bank Holidays, which are prime museum days.

Your only going to bring in the ranting and raving about nurses and teachers crowd with your post.

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Point 1 is just plain incorrect. Many private companies go on strike and withdraw their services. Happens regularly. The LUAS is operated by Transdev and has striked (struck?) many times (including during the Leaving Cert and 2016 Easter weekend) so there's precedent for private companies with public contracts going on strike.

Thanks for proving my point. Unions are great at using the public as bargaining tools and its the only way they know to keep themselves relevent. Luckily, Transdev faced them down and the drivers ended worse off considering the amount lost in pay while striking.

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Also, the average wage is sh*te. If you're aiming for average, you're aiming too low.

It's a good job then they are getting paid significantly above the average then isn't it, like I mentioned. Still didn't stop them walking away on people with cancer in the name of greed.

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

My only gripe with museums is they're closed on Sundays and Bank Holidays, which are prime museum days.

Which ones and since when (pre covid)?
Used to go to them on Sundays, such as the natural history museum, opened from 1 to 5 from what I remember

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

Thanks for proving my point. Unions are great at using the public as bargaining tools and its the only way they know to keep themselves relevent. Luckily, Transdev faced them down and the drivers ended worse off considering the amount lost in pay while striking.



It's a good job then they are getting paid significantly above the average then isn't it, like I mentioned. Still didn't stop them walking away on people with cancer in the name of greed.

When nurses and doctors go on strike, do you actually think no one is on the wards looking after patients etc, because it certainly comes across this way.

Kewreeuss

Equium wrote: »

My OH has to deal with Italian government agencies on a regular basis, and they are light years behind in this regard. Websites are missing forms, emails are often never replied to and you get passed from post to pillar to get an answer to any request. Having to attend an appointment in person there is even worse. You could easily spend a day being shuffled between several buildings just to get home none the wiser.

What did I tell yiz?! We don’t know how good we’ve got it, for dealing with our bureaucracies.

gameoverdude

Also one I hoped never to deal with, but intreo were excellent. Last year and working from 16.

spuddy

Don't think anyone has mentioned the NRA, now TII?

I remember when national roads were maintained by the county councils. On a trip say from Dublin to Galway, the road surface would change every time you crossed a county border, depending on which local authority were responsible for what portion of the road. Some were good, some were atrocious, and the whole approach was highly inefficient.

Come to think of it, why do we have 30+ local authorities more or less doing the same thing?

lazygal

The library system.
My children adore picking books and there is always a display of new titles for them, and a table with a special topic like space, food, inspiring people etc. We've discovered so many new topics that way. The Christmas before last they had a showing of A Muppet Christmas Carol for the kids, complete with popcorn. All I had to do was register.
I've ordered numerous books on the online catalogue, often brand new titles. I've requested books not on it from the librarians and they usually are happy to put the request in the system. It's one of the things I missed most during lockdown.
There's also regular showings of classic films on weekday mornings, for older people. Language meetings, a knitting club and I'm sure others. It's just amazing to have such a good facility.

M three

NDLS. Pathetic. Emailed them for info 3 months ago and all I've got so far is 2 automated emails and a third email asking for info i already sent.
Tried phoning them. 3 minutes of rubbish then finally told I'm in a queue with 23 calls ahead of me.
What sort of public service is that.

Hotblack Desiato

A privatised one.

Hotblack Desiato

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A privatised one.

Just like the privatized service called upon to do driving tests due to the failure of the public driving testers to cope with the work load.

A private service that got through the backlog far faster than the public could dream of doing.

jmayo

EddieN75 wrote: »

I went to the department of agriculture in portlaoise two years ago for paperwork. They close for a 2 hour lunch. Honestly look it up

Ah French hours I see.

RulesOfNature wrote: »

Revenue is there to take your money. To praise and cheer them on is bizarre.

They are efficient at taking your money. To fund the world’s most expensive hospital. Being built during a worldwide economic recession caused by a pandemic. Go figure.

Ehh if Revenue were actually running the building of the new children's hospital, it would probably already be built, built somewhere that made sense and the cost would be half of what it is going to work to.

RulesOfNature wrote: »

When did I agree for corporations and wealthy elites to be taxed 0 while I get taxed nearly half of everything I make?

Revenue is there to tax the poor and middle class. It exists to keep you in your place.

How can anyone look at the low taxes paid by the wealthy in Ireland and still call the Revenue office progressive and effective? Its a sham.

BTW you need to start studying a bit on our governmental system.
Revenue don't get to decide what tax rates to charge, who they apply to and what is then done with the tax revenues ??
Most of those decisions are done by dept of finance and government of the day.

If you have a gripe it is better to bring to the ones that can do something about it, for a start have a go at a politician the next time you see one.

RulesOfNature

murpho999 wrote: »

Really a ridiculous post.

Their job is not just to collect money, which in itself is no easy task but to implement and manage all the complications of our tax system.

When you consider how many taxes we have it’s quite a responsibility that could easily be a disaster.

On a personal level, I recently changed job and it was so easy, just log on to my revenue. Add new job and enter new employer's details and start date and everything is done.
Your new employer is notified of your tax credits, old employer is turned off. No P45s, or paper forms and most importantly no delays resulting in emergency tax, It was perfect.

That’s just one example of how they have developed a great system.

Once the money is collected they are not involved with or concerned with how it is spent. That is the government’s responsibility and projects like the children’s hospital has been ongoing for years and pre-date Covid and should not stop.
It’s a wonder you didn’t mention the homeless as well.

Emergency tax lol. Its amazing that there’s a system to pre-emptively charge the common person with taxes. Where are the corporate emergency taxes? Billionaire emergency taxes?

The Children’s Hospital should 100% stop. Its a monument to decadence and corruption being built while the entire country is struggling. Its a play by play repeat of the 1700s just before oligarchs were hanged.

RulesOfNature

Buddy97mm wrote: »

This thread is not about politics, its about areas of the State that operate efficiently. To be fair, tax rates, etc. are political decisions, not the choice of any Department. Revenue as far as I know are apolitical and only implement those political decisions, which to be fair they do quite efficiently. Disagreeing with taxation policy is very understandable but I do not think Revenue are the ones to blame.

Then there’s nobody to blame, according to you. This is a nonsensical gobbledeegook logic loop that politicians like to point to because it effectively says ‘No one is responsible for us building the world’s most expensive hospital’.

Go ahead. Try to point some other department other than revenue and I’ll show you how illogical it all becomes.

You fell for the propaganda.

Hotblack Desiato

RulesOfNature wrote: »

The Children’s Hospital should 100% stop.

We have a new leader in the "stupidest thing I've read this year" stakes.

RulesOfNature

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

We have a new leader in the "stupidest thing I've read this year" stakes.

Not really. If you think the nation should pay 3+ billion for a hospital then I would argue that you are the stupidest thing Ive read this year.

No amount of mental gymnastics will justify the world’s most expensive hospital in Dublin.

Buddy97mm

RulesOfNature wrote: »

Then there’s nobody to blame, according to you. This is a nonsensical gobbledeegook logic loop that politicians like to point to because it effectively says ‘No one is responsible for us building the world’s most expensive hospital’.

Go ahead. Try to point some other department other than revenue and I’ll show you how illogical it all becomes.

You fell for the propaganda.

?????????????????????

Obviously I did fall for the propaganda because I really don't comprehend any part of this. By this logic, I guess public servants collectively are responsible for most current problems - maybe the OPW are responsible for unemployment figures, nurses could well cause crime, teachers probably play a role in the housing crisis and those lads in the Passport office play a key role in the drugs trade.

RulesOfNature

Buddy97mm wrote: »

?????????????????????

By this logic, I guess public servants collectively are responsible for most current problems .

Correct. The cogs in the system are collectively at fault for perpetuating the corrupt state - because they are there by design.

Tell me, does Revenue exist in a vacuum? Or is Revenue’s ineffective policies against the rich and corporations by design?